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I see last year someone asked you a question about a ceizure…

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I see last year someone...
I see last year someone asked you a question about a ceizure possiabilty on a 96/97 waveventure 700. I am having the same issues with mine and need your help. I am mechanicaly inclined and just want to get your imput on the situation and repair. My ski will go for abut 5 min then abruptly die then immidatly start back up......then again but only 2 min later, on and on untill the battery is run dead. 1st compression check was 150 per side then next day I checked again and got 150 rear and 30 front. I then started it to put it on the trailer and it ran great on both cylinders, I decided to do another comp test and got 150 front and rear and it ran just fine but then when I went past the bueys on the lake and took off the whole thing started all over again. I then went home and did another compression test while it was on the trailer and I got 90psi front and rear. I then put some pb blaster in the cylinders and got 120lbs. The spark is great. The person I bought it from says he replaced a piston and it was oversized a bit but I'm thinkn that the pistons junk and its overheating and ceizing but the thing is that it fires up immidatly after shut down even before the ski comes to a stop in the water..........at first I thought it was fuel but Im leaning toward trying to get new rings.....I dont think that this guy put any oil in the gas to break it in after he put in the piston and mabey fried the rings on it. PLEASE HELP
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: Boat
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Answered in 45 minutes by:
6/18/2010
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
RSRBOB
RSRBOB, Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 1,078
Experience: Former Yamaha Factory Service Rep, Dlr Line Tech, Serv Mgr, G/M
Verified

I have not seen techscooter around for awhile so I will attempt assist you in diagnosing and repairing your ski.

 

Although your compression readings are all over the map, the symptoms you described are consistent with a piston seizure. The readings you got were so erratic that we really can't rely too heavily on them, other than the one reading where you got 30 psi on the front cylinder.

 

The fact that it restarts before the boat coasts to a stop does not mean a piston is not seizing. I have seen that myself on numerous occasions. As soon as the piston stops going up and down, it is no longer generating friction, hence heat and combustion, hence heat has seized, and what heat that was retained in the piston is now transferred to the cylinder wall and away from the piston because of the piston to cylinder wall contact. That allows the piston to shrink back down and move again.

 

At this point, the best thing to do is remove the cylinder head and inspect the cylinder bores. Take a very close look at the front cylinder. If you have a 1996 700cc Yamaha, the cylinders are borable, which will save you money on the repair. If the piston/s have been seizing, then you are going to need to bore them out again to the next oversize (by .5mm).

 

The next question becomes, Why is it seizing? The first thing to check there would be to remove the bleeder screw on the top of the oil pump and watch to see if oil immediately flows out of the bleeder or if air comes out, or bubbles in the oil, then a steady flow of oil. beyond that we are going to have to look at the piston for clues as to why it is seizing.

 

At that point we will be looking for tell tale signs of either a lean condition or insufficient piston to wall clearance, or a few other possibilities, but you will have to have the piston in hand to respond to specific questions about what you see, so we can determine that.

 

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks

RSRBOB

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok, I will take it apart tommorow and get back to you, thank you for your quick response.
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago

My pleasure. I am confident we can resolve this issue. Just let me know if you require further assistance.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok. I took the head off and inspected the cylinder walls. They seam decent except for the front cylinder did have a very small amount of aluminum from the piston on the wall. There are no majior grooves on the walls but I do feel a little rough spot where the aluminum was..I believe just a hone may clean it up but It would be nice if I could just some how clean it up without taking off the cylinders.

 

Also I wanted to mention that I spoke with the previous owner and he had just had both cylinders bored out and had both pistons replaced and are both 150's The tops of the pistons look great and they both slide great but It seams that there is next to no space between the pistons and the cylinder at all! I see you mentioned to get them bored out a bit more and honestly I think that may solve the ceizure but Im not sure.

 

I also checked the oil injection bleeder srew on the frot of the motor. The oil came out almost immiatly. Before I bought it the previous owner said he had it out for about 1.5 hours full throttle but never did the break in process with oil in the gas and letting it go at slow speeds etc.......... It was low on oil so I filled the oil tank with 2 stroke tcw3 from the gas station, I accidantly overfilled it so it was leaking out the oil vent above the forward/reverse selector for a little bit. Anyway. The top of the pistons look great but I did not take them out yet. I have replaced pistons before and they just seam like there is no room at all between the cylinder and the pistons--I cant even see the first ring. Do you think I need to pull the cylinders? Muratic acid will take care of the aluminum on the walls and I can run a light 4 finger hone through it. The aluminum I found was very very thin and only about the size of a penny that got run over by a train. Im just assuming that like you said, I should get the cylinders cut a little bit more to allow expantion and get rings that are the same size that are on the pistons now so they dont get so hot and have room to expand?

 

I will do what you tell me your the expert!

Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
Yes, you need to pull the cylinders. They need to be perfectly smooth. That piston is going to be history too. You need a new one. Measure the cylinder and see if it is usable without boring.

BTW, almost immediately means air in the system,

Edited by RSRBOB on 6/19/2010 at 11:22 PM EST
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok. I will pull them out. Now the top of the pistons both say 150 on them. Does that mean the cylinder should be around 130-140. If I dont have them bored out what should the demention actually be on the cylinders. Im thinking that maby the shop that bored them didnt bore them enough.
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
Do you have the single carb 700 engine?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

it says twin carb on the hull. and as far as I see it is a twin carb. It has a long plastic air tube cover over the top of the carbs. there are two fuel lines from the selector to the carb area. one line runs around the back so I believe it is feeding 2 carbs. and yes it is a 700. the motor has a sticker that says sbt on the head in purple

Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
81 mm is stock bore.
That makes it a 701 cc engine, 80 hp.

Edited by RSRBOB on 6/19/2010 at 11:54 PM EST
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Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
SBT, sorry, I missed that. That is a rebuilt engine from Short Block Technologies. No telling from here what is what. You are just going to have to measure. SBT has their own clearance specs on their pistons because they have a different silicone content than stock. It probably needs about 0.005" clearance.
When you get the piston off, turn it upside down and look at the inside of the crown, tell me what color you see.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok. I guess what Im asking is that I'm wondering if the shop that did the cylinder boring didnt take out enough material and should I just hone them out myself or get them bored somewhere a little bit bigger than they already are. Being that both pistons say 1.50 on them----Im wondering on what the cylinder size should be to meet the demands of the pistons being 1.50 ------they just seem very close to me with absoutly no play at all. I will hone out the cylinders and get new pistons and rings for it but I want to figure out why it was ciezing on me and your mentioning an air leak or could it be a too small of a bore causing too tight of a fit, expansion of the piston then ciezing.
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
You will need to measure the piston ( if there is no sign of seizure) then measure the bore diameter. You should be right around 0.005" clearance. We don't know if SBT rebuilt the engine, which makes it unlikely it was bored too tight. Until you measure it, it is speculation and we can not know for sure. The problem is, SBT does not publish specs for production tolerance on their pistons so the only thing that can be done is to measure it. Remember to look under the piston to tell me what you see. Also, if you can upload some pics of he failed piston, I can help you further diag the failure.
Thanks
RSRBOB
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
ok, thank you for your help. today is fathers day and I will not be able to do it today but I will for sure first thing in the morning around 6 am tommorrow. I will take pictures for you and send them immidatly to you.
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
Sounds good. I will get a look at them and get back with you.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok, I just got back home. I forgot to take my camera with so I am going back right now to take the pictures for you. Both the front and rear pistons are galled up. The rings are 75 percent stuck to the pistons on the front piston and there is some aluminum deposit on the lower part of the forward cylinder. Im thinking the oil injection failed and maby putting on a blockoff plate, but the biggest problem now is finding pistons that will fit.....it seams that I cannot find anywhere that has 1.50 pistons. I will send you the pictures soon. The bottom of the inside of the piston looks very clean with a hint of light brown
Marine Mechanic: RSRBOB, Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, waiting on the pics on the other post.
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