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Bmw 740i: electronic..fuel pump relay..fuel rack,but the injectors…

Customer Question
i have changed the engine...
i have changed the engine on a1994,bmw 740i and are experiencing electrical/electronic problems.
1. fuel pump relay does not draw.fuel pump run when relay is by-passed and have fuel in fuel rack,but the injectors does not fire.
2.main engine control relay works
3. i have no spark at plugs.
4.what's going on? car ran before engine change. bad ground some where?,bad computer?,
resetting with bmw scan tool which i do not have?
any light which can be shed on what direction to take to alleviate the problem will be appreciated
stefan
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: BMW
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Answered in 3 hours by:
6/24/2010
BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
George
George, BMW Technician
Category: BMW
Satisfied Customers: 1,861
Experience: BMW Master Technician over 20 years BMW Dealership Experience. BMW Auto Repair Shop Business Owner
Verified

Was the new motor of the same year? Did you use the vehicles original wire harness or the one that came with the replacement engine? Did you use your original DME (engine control module) or one that came with the replacement engine? Also can I have the last 7 digits of your VIN #

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

this is second reply i do not no if you got the first one.

1. engine is of same year

2.all electrical/electronic components are from original car

3.vin wbagd432xrde67052 dated 10/93

4.appreciate any comments how to proceed without the benefit of a bmw scantool

5. what about anti-theft system, resetting or disconnect?

thanx in advance

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

So you have another case open for the same question and another Expert is already assisting you?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

no, no NO! I DO NOT NO WHAT HAPPENED MY REPLY SUDDNLY DISAPPEARED FROM MY SCREEN.SO I RESENT THE ANSWER TO MAKE SURE YOU GOT IT.

I DO NOT PLAY GAMES, GO AHEAD AND ANSWER NOBODY ELSE HAVE RECEIVED MY ANSWER.

THANX

STEFAN

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
Alright you are going to have to check and see why the Main relay is not being activated, (even though you said it is I need to be 100 % sure) it supplies power to all the circuits that you are missing power to. Make a 3 wire jumper and remove the Main relay and jump terminals # XXXXX 87, 87a. And then recheck to see if all the items now are being supplied with power and let me know what happens.
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BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

I will be signing off now to attend a graduation but when I return this evening I will be signing back on. So leave me the findings of the results of the test I gave you and if needed I will give you further instructions on what to test next.

If you do not want to wait for me I understand and will opt out if you would like so that maybe another Expert can assist you sooner. Just let me know within the next 5 minutes please.

Thank you,

George

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

I FOLLOWED YOUR INSTRUCTIONS AND JUMPED THE CONTROL RELAY. I GOT SOME CLICKING ACTIVITY AT THE ENGINE AREA BUT NO START. I ALSO TRIED WITH FUEL PUMP RELAY IN AND WITH JUMPER. NO START SPARKPLUGS DRY AS THE DESERT

WHAT DO WE DO NOW.

SORRY I MISSED YOUR DEADLINE BUT I WAS WORKING ON THE CAR..GO AHEAD TONIGHT I WILL PICK THE ANSWER BY TOMORROW MORNING

THANX

STEFAN

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

did you receive my message? i tested the car as per your instructions(jumped the engine control relay). i got some noise ,clicking in the engine area but no fuel in cylinders, i also jumped the fueel pump relay to no avail. injectors does not open. any idea how to proceed.

 

thanx

stefan

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i have not heard from you since yesterday. i have sent 2 messages and no response. pls answer so i know how to proceed.

thanks

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
I am sorry but today my internet connection keeps dropping out on me, your are going to need a Digital Volt Meter so we can do the rest of the tests that need to be performed. Just let me know when you are back on line with the DVM and ready to do further testing.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i am ready to do further testing with the dvm, however you should know my computer is far away from the car. sorry but i was gone for the weekend. let's get this done and you will get paid.

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
Alright give me one moment and I will put together some tests for you to do.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
o.k.
BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

I want you to put in the 3 wire jumper wire at the main relay again, then check for battery voltage at the fuel injector plug connector pin # XXXXX for each injector wire color red with white tracer. With key in position # XXXXX check at the ignition coils pin # XXXXX you should have battery voltage. Then check the input voltage to the fuel pump relay terminal # XXXXX you should have battery voltage. Make a 2 wire jumper and jump terminals 30 and 87 of the fuel pump relay check fuse # XXXXX which is a 15 amp fuse for the fuel pump and verify you have battery voltage to both side of the fuse. Then at the fuel pump connector pin # XXXXX wire color green with violet tracer should have battery voltage, pin # XXXXX wire color brown should be your ground wire for the fuel pump. Check voltage supply reading at the fuel pump connector with it unplugged at pin # XXXXX and 5.

Let me know what the results are for each test step by step.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

george

1. i have battery voltage at injectors

2. ihave battery voltage at coils terminal 15 i do not have a #3 terminal.

3.i have voltage onboth sides of fuse #23.

4. i have voltage to terminal 86 on fuelpump socket

5. i assume you mean the connector pin in trunk for the fuel pump.

6. i have full voltage at fuel pump connector terminal#4 and#5 '

when i by-pass fuel pump relay a fan start running is this normal.?

i have tried to start the car but no go.

let me know what's next.

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok you have voltage to the fuel pump, is it running? And if it is do you have fuel pressure?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

fuel pump running, i checked at hose to fuel rack. good flw rate filled a qt in a about ten seconds. what's next. could it be a sensor?

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
I want you to check the fuel injector pin # XXXXX to see if the DME is suppling the ground signal to the injectors so they will open. If not then you are going to have to check the ground side of the harness back to the DME to see if everything is good on the harness side.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i assume you are asking me to measure the voltage between terminal #1 and terminal #2 at the fuel injector to see if i have voltage or not (ground or not), i do not know where the dme is located may be you can inform me. am isupposedto measureat pins at dme.pls advise

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
The DME is located in the Ebox which is located on the passensger side rear of the engine compartment which the black plastic cover with the 4 phillips screws where the engine harness goes into. You are going to need a noid light which hooks directly up to the fuel injector connector and when cranking the vehicle the light should pulse. If you don't have a noid light you can pick 1 up at any local parts center for under $ 20.00.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

can not locate any noid light locally will try to get one for tomorrow,by the way they want a lot of money for it.

i will be back tomorrow.

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
ok
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

george i am back i just got the noid light. before we proceed with the light i have a question since it entails taking of the whole wiring harness and injectors.

1. we know we have voltage to injectors, we know we have fuel at the rail, we know we have voltage to the coils. obviously the ground is missing. can we check the ground at the main harness connector on the right hand side of the engine and if so how do we do it and what # XXXXX connector pin.

thanx

stefan

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

george are you stil laround pls let me know

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you I have been on the road. Sorry but you will have to do it at the injector connection I know it is a pain to take apart (done it many times myself) but that is the only way to test it properly.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

o.k. i got your message. i will tear it apart,but it will not be until tuesday. have a good 4th of july. let's talk next week.

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
Alright talk to you next week, have a great July 4th.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

george

i am back and i have aquestion before we proceed with the noid light.

we know we have fuel to the rack. we know we have voltage to the injectors and the coils. the injectors does not open (cylindres bone dry). i have no spark. how can i check the ground from the computer, which sensors fire injectors and coils through the computer.

thanx

stefan

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

hello anybody

stefanhome

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

The crankshaft position sensor sends the signal to the DME which then controls the fuel injectors and the ignition coils.

Before checking the grounds we need to verify if the injectors are receiving the signals or not, once we know the answer to that then we can start checking all the input power and ground signals to the DME.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

o.k. i will test the injector signals.

i will be back to you this afternoon

thanx

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago
OK
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

hi george i am back.

i have tested 1one injector no lightpulse.

i also checked for voltage in the ground wire and i have 12volts with key on and main and fuelpump relays by-passed. i thought the computer grounds the injectors.what's going on.

pls let me know the next step.

thanx

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

With the main relay bypassed you should have power to the injector, and the brown wire which is the ground wire you should have your pulsed ground. Check the brown wire by putting one end of your meter to the ground connector pin and the other end to a body ground on the vehicle. And let me know if you have voltage present. Then do the same on the power wire and let me know the results.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

as i said i have full voltage in the ground wire without cranking the engine

this is not right it should be a pulsating ground when i am cranking or is this another beemer special.pls advise

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

No you should not have any voltage on this wire so if you do this wire is shorted to a power wire or connection somewhere and you will need to go over all of these wire connections to find out where they are shorted together.

___________

 

If I have answered your question I ask that you please accept.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

i do not want to be a pain but here is my problem. i have no means of checking if i have a computer problem (i have no pin numberfor the ground wire at the computer terminal, i have no pin number for the ground wire atthe connector on the engine. do you have awiring diagram with pin numbers for all connectors. how is the pulsating ground fed, over a relay or what?if so where is the relay. appreciate any light you could shed on my dilemma.

thanx

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

Stefan with a problem such as you are having and the time and effort that already has been spent on my part does not add up to the value amount of this question. Most would have left this case already due to this. In order for me to continue any further you will need to accept this answer and re-open another question for the proper value for the time, effort, and information that will need to be given to start getting into pin by pin checks along with checking for shorts, breaks, or any other possible issues that might be going on with this vehicle.

Thank you,

George

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

my dilemma is growing since i am back where i started. i know i had no fire from the coils i know i had no opening of the igniters i know i had fuel at the fuel rack. what i did not kow is the ground is shorted somewhere. before i got in contact with you i contacted alldata. they had no factory information to sell. i got in touch with mitchell's and bought a program. when i requested trouble shooting info. sorry not available.i consider myself a diligent and carefull expert on european cars except bmw where information is kept to vest.i can draw logical conclusions with info at hand but i cannot work in the dark. i therefore have the following suggestion before i pay you and you sail off into the sunset and i have to start all over with somebody else. i .believe we are close to the solution of the problem.

pls provide the following info:

1. the ground pulse from the ecm is it steered via a relay if so where is it. located. is it ssteered via the main relay if so which contact.

2,of the three boxes in the control module which one contain the ground for the igniters and pin #

3. i assume you have a complete bmw manual for this car. could you supply me with a wiring diagram for igniter and coil curcuits. there is a bonus waiting if you can help me out. thanx stefan

 

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

Yes I can supply you with a wiring diagram.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

pls answer all three questions. you can e-mail dwgs.

thanx

stefan

BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

Sorry we cannot email. I do believe it is time for me to opt out of this question, so that maybe another Expert might dedicate their time and effort to supply the information you need.

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BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

I have opted out so that maybe another Expert can assist you with your question.

Best of luck to you with getting your problem solved,

George

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BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

Do Not respond to this question until another Expert contacts you otherwise it will just keep sending it back to my mail box.

Thank you,

George

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Relist: Incomplete answer.
i was abandoned by this so called expert when i asked for specific answers
BMW Mechanic: George, BMW Technician replied 8 years ago

Please do not respond until another Expert responds to you, as I said it will just send it back to me. If another Expert does not respond then they probably do not have the answer to you question.

I wish you all the best in having your question answered and I hope your vehicle is up and running again soon. There is nothing worse that I dislike to see more then a BMW just sitting there without being able to be driven and enjoyed for the wonderful vehicle that it is.

Thank you very much,

George

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