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Suzuki Lianna: Suzuki Lianna 2004 Auto 1600cc 5dr wagon, 108,000kms.

Suzuki Lianna 2004 Auto 1600cc...
Suzuki Lianna 2004 Auto 1600cc 5dr wagon, 108,000kms. Motor vibration felt throughout the body of the car - particularly bad when cold idling and up to 1500-2000 revs, improves when warmed up. Have fitted new ignition coils and replaced a worn engine mount - no improvement. Any other suggestions?
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Answered in 2 hours by:
5/23/2014
AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Clement
Clement, Diagnostic Technician
Category: Australia Car
Satisfied Customers: 208
Experience: VW, BMW & GM Holden factory trained, Applied Design (Auto), Diploma in IT
Verified
Hi,

Is the engine misfiring at all?

I'm assuming the spark plugs were replaced together with the coils?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

No the engine is not misfiring - I would have said so if it was.


Yes spark plugs were replaced & are replaced every 10K.

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, is the car in a workshop at the moment, or do you have access to any workshop equipment?

Also with the engine idling, can the vibration be seen visually under the bonnet?

No dash warning lights or fault codes from the car?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok, is the car in a workshop at the moment, or do you have access to any workshop equipment?


 


No! & No! Have had 2 workshops try & diagnose/fix the problem, hence the things done to date - has only gotten worse over the past 6 months.


 


 


Also with the engine idling, can the vibration be seen visually under the bonnet?


 


more a case of feeling the vibration through the body, plastic panels rattling, dash rattling




No dash warning lights or fault codes from the car?


 


 


that's right - no!

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok you will need to do a test for this next step of diagnosis:

- Start the engine
- Leave the handbrake on
- Left foot on brake pedal (Keep it there for the duration of the test)
- Put the car in "D"
- Right foot on accelerator pedal, see how high you can rev the engine like this

Once you see the revs peak do not hold the revs for too long, ease off the accelerator. You can repeat this 2 or 3 times before you will have to allow the torque converter to cool down.

Let me know the max revs you can get from the engine like this..
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

2,200 max revs

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Did you notice or experience the same cabin vibrations during the test? Was it better or worse?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Clement - you asked to let you know what max rev's were achieved.


As previously stated - vibration is primarily up to 2,000 revs.


The most notable thing of this test was the load the motor & trans are put under.


 


Have you any inkling as to what the problem may be?

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
So you noticed the same vibrations while doing the test? This is important - we need to establish if it is an issue with the motor or the trans. The load that you mention is normal and part of the test. More importantly is what you experienced during the test.

This is not a straightforward diagnosis as you have already found out with the number of repairs and workshops you have been to. In order to make any meaningful steps forward, we will need as much information as we can.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

So you noticed the same vibrations while doing the test?


 


No!


 


What additional info are you thinking of / do you need / are you looking for?


 


Information Summary;



  • Vibration very noticeable up to 2000 revs.

  • Vibration very noticeable when the engine is cold.

  • Vibration very noticeable when the engine is cold and when reversing.

  • Vibration not noticeable when the engine & gear box are under load.

  • Vibration is a shudder (uniform, suggesting mechanical moving origin) causing interior plastic fittings to rattle.

  • The motor is not running roughly or misfiring.

  • New coils & spark plugs made no difference.

  • Replaced worn engine mount made no difference.

  • No warning lights or fault codes have shown.


 

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok that is helpful. I am leaning more towards a problem with the transmission at this stage, I will explain why later. The next time you take the car for a drive, get up to cruising speed with the rattle/vibration present. Put the transmission into "N" and see if the vibration goes away.

Also while you're in "N", rev the engine from 1000-2000 RPMs to see if you can replicate the vibrations - this is one way we can isolate the transmission from the equation.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Will do, thanks


Will let you know in the next hour or so.

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Not a problem, based on what you find, we should be getting close to isolating the problem!

I will wait for your findings.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

The vibration stops in neutral.


When revved in neutral the vibration replicates.


 


So that would suggest that the problem is in the motor?


 


 


 

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Yes based on your findings, the vibrations seem to be coming from the motor. Are you able to replicate this vibration with the vehicle stationary with the engine idling, revving the engine in neutral?

I suspect the source of the problem to be external to the engine, rather than internal - as the engine seems to be running ok with no misfiring or rough running or fault codes.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Yes. Along with the vibration in the 1500-2000 rev range there is an audible rattle at around 1800 revs.

AU Auto Mechanic: Clement, Diagnostic Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok. The good thing now is that we are able to replicate and reproduce the vibrations/rattle. The next step is to get our hands dirty and further narrow down the problem.

The test that you carried out was a torque converter stall test. 2200 RPMs is within the stall specifications for this engine/transmission and indicates a healthy trans/valve body.

Because you are able to isolate the gearbox by putting it in neutral, and are still experiencing the vibrations, we know that the transmission is not the problem. The fact that you get the vibrations at rest also leaves the driveline out of the equation - we know that it is not the driveshafts which are loose/out of balance.

You (or a mechanic at a workshop) will have to try and listen for the sound from the engine bay, with the engine running in the problematic RPM range. If the rattle still cannot be identified, the next step would be to remove the drive and accessory belts, such that all the accessories like the A/C compressor, alternator, power steering pump etc are not hooked up. If the rattle goes away, then it is coming from one of the accessories running off the belt.

I would also pay particular attention to the crankshaft pulley (or harmonic balancer) - These often have rubber dampeners which crack and perish. When this happens the crankshaft can be put out of balance and cause vibrations like you have described. Also check while the engine is running to see if the pulley is running true.

Let me know how you go!
Clement
Clement, Diagnostic Technician
Category: Australia Car
Satisfied Customers: 208
Experience: VW, BMW & GM Holden factory trained, Applied Design (Auto), Diploma in IT
Verified
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Clement
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Satisfied Customers: 208
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