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P2296 fault, 2006 a6 3.2L BKH, rough idle, low power.

Customer Question
P2296 fault, 2006 a6...

P2296 fault, 2006 a6 3.2L BKH, rough idle, low power

Mechanic's Assistant: Is the rough idle intermittent or consistent?

Intermittent

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your A6 yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes, replaced high side pressure sensor, replaced N276 wiring because insulation was cracked. inspected HPFP (seems fine), N276 seems to work on a bench test.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

Fuel rail pressure (VCDS) is around 5bar, specified is 30bar+, so it looks like high fuel pressure is not getting to the rail, and this seems consistent with the symptoms I have

Submitted: 1 month ago.Category: Audi
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3/10/2018
Audi Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago
Danny
Danny, ASE Certified Technician
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Was that p2296 fault code there for the beginning? The fault code says that n276 is short-circuiting to positive voltage which essentially means that the regulator is open and dumping fuel all the time which is why you have low fuel pressure.Where did you replace the wiring from and to? Did you maybe accidentally connect the wrong wires to component?Basically I would run brand new wires all the way from the ECM to the fuel pressure regulator solenoid and if you still have this fault then replace the regulator itself because it's stuck open. Really the only way I can have this fault code would be if it internally with shorting power so either you didn't replace all the wiring and they're still short circuit somewhere or the components bad.High fuel pressure can't get anywhere because pressure is a function of restriction so you're getting plenty of fuel flow to the fuel rail but because of fuel pressure regulators open you don't have a restriction and therefore you get no pressure.If I have answered your question to your satisfaction, please remember to hit accept next to my name, is that is the only way that I'm compensated for my time on this site. If you have any further questions please don't hesitate to ask, you can still ask questions about this topic even after hitting accept.
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
when the N276 is energized it's opening the supply to the return? Which makes sense because when I bench tested the valve on the bench (applying 12v to it) fuel leaked out of the return port and stopped when it was de-energized. So if I unplug the harness, my problem should go away (in that I can build pressure now). What would happen if the valve fails and pressure builds? how is the controlled or limited - essentially, what is the purpose of the N276? Is it an on/off solenoid or a duty-cycle controlled valve?
The insulation was cracked on both wires near the connector (N276), I replaced the wires a few inches down the line (repair wire from the dealer, comes with terminals). Pretty sure I didn't cross the wires, but even if I did, it would work with power in either direction.
replacing wiring all the way to the ECU is much easier said than done and would want to be sure that this is where my fault is. I would need to know under what circumstances the valve is turned on and off so I can measure voltage to see if its on when it shouldn't be.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Also, I would need the pinout on the ecu for the N276. At the very least I can verify wiring this way without removing the whole harness. I can pull the pin on the ECU then verify if I have a short somewhere.
Audi Mechanic: Danny, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago
The information that you're asking for about the function of the solenoid the information that you're asking for about the function of the solenoid is not necessary for diagnosis at all, it's actually not even discussed in the repair manual but only in the technical self study guide technicians get when they go to training.You don't want to just unplug it it doesn't discuss how it functions although knowing German engineers, it's going to fail safely, unplugging it can have unintended consequences.The solenoid is pulse-width modulated and is constantly being turned on and off to vary the fuel pressure.That's not really how we do it where we diagnose it though basically what you're going to do is get to the engine computer you're going to remove the plastic covers from where the harness goes into the PCM connectors and you were going to look for the wires bicolor or you can very quickly use an ohmmeter is just drag the old meter across all the pins while the other end is at the at the actual solenoid.What you do is you just take two brand new wires and you be line them directly to the engine computer and connect them with heat shrink butt connectors and then you see if it fixes the problem and if it does then you run the wires in a more permanent fashion.However you mention removing the harness you never ever ever tuck a wiring repair back inside a harness like that, because it's a human-made repair if there's ever a problem the mechanic who works on it will never figure out that somebody had made a repair and it would make it impossible for them to figure out basically.The way that these wiring repairs are done is you neatly route the wires and zip-tie them along to the existing harness if you want to hide them then you use the factory cloth friction tape harness wrap which is like hockey stick tape and you can get at the hardware store made by 3M.So in this circumstance I would run it off the solenoid, probably down under the intake, cross over to the driver side and up into the rain tray sort of by the central electronic control module. You just make it look neat you don't remove the harness.I don't know if you've measure the resistance of the valve yet or not but basically to a professional German car tech that fault code only means one thing, basically even when the engine computer is not putting out positive voltage to actuate that solenoid, the engine computer is getting a positive voltage back across the wires. Somewhere there is wiring damage either from a rodent or something and it is getting Power sword to it that's why you have no fuel pressure it's stuck wide open which is why that circuit is supposed to have 1500 PSI fuel, but has 30.
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Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago
Wolfgang
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  1. What scan tool are you using please ? make and model?
  2. I do need the vin # to get the factory information to assist.
  3. was the vehicle in an accident or any other repair work done before this issue with the code that is active right now?

Thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Latest vcds
2006 a6 3.2l bkh
WAUKH74F36N102829
No accidents or anything indicative of wiring damage. Was working/driving fine, happened one day. Already tried the easy stuff, unless you have other ideas, so at this point it's looking like there might actually be a short to ground, or internal ECU short (Which apparently someone had experienced).
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

can you post the scan log here please

thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Is there something specific you're looking for becuase i actually don't have time to do that right now. Only one code: p2296 (n276 short to plus). Now after running for a while there are misfire codes too. But thats not really relevant becuase their root cause is the low fuel pressure ( I have 4-6bar on the rail). Which is basically low press output. Specified is 30-100bar (depending on driving condition.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

yes but in the code there are #s that describe the fault that i do need .

If you want this fixed Mike you may want to get that log asap!!

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Well I've cleared the codes a few times already for various reasons so that's not really an option anymore. Again, is there something specific you're looking for In the log? or are you telling me this is unsolvable without the log?
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

if the code is resetting instantly since you only getting 4-6 bar it will show the exact fault failure on the code itself on the log.

You are asking for my help aren't you?

This is what i do need.. thanks!

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It does not reset instantly.
I would like your help, but it's not very helpful if you just keep asking for the same thing when I'm saying that's not an option right now. If you'd like to elaborate on what you're looking for then maybe I might be able to supply some of that information. Or, if I can get the ECU pinouts and wiring diagram for the circuit, that would also help me. There are other things we can do to solve this even if logs aren't available. If you don't think so then we can just move on
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

ok Mike here is the diagram of the circuit .

you will see the power where it comes from fuse to the 14 pin connector on the left side of the engine compartment then goes to the n290 valve . then the ground goes back to the 14 pin connector to the ecu.

note short to positive may indicate open circuit on the ground side of the valve . so a resistance check of the wires will be needed . more accurate voltage drop from pin 2 to the ecu pin will indicate the fault much better while running.

anything else?

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Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

does that make more sense?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
it makes sense. I actually ended up finding the wiring diagrams online somewhere. Took awhile to find t14c (hardly left side, it was behind the engine just under the breather). Wiring is good from t14c to pin 2. Haven't disconnected ECU becuase that's a process (shear bolts to be removed). But what I did do was test everything else that I could:
The 12v side is good. No problems there. The ground side had 4v on it. Vcds has an output test as you know, and conveniently it tests the n290 (n276). I tested voltage between pin2 and ground. it fluctuates between 0 and 4v. Here's where you can make your worth; is the 4v normal? I would expect it to go between 12v and 0. So when it's 0, we get solenoid on and when we get 12v we get solenoid off (because pin 1 and 2 would both be at 12v therefore 0 difference across them). Now, if it only gets to 4v, then that would mean I would constantly have 8v across the solenoid - maybe keeping it open all the time? Any insight into this? If this is abnormal then what would be causing a max of 4v on pin2? Faulty ECU?
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
PS. One thing didn't make sense. How does an open circuit on the ground side cause short to plus? It should cause "open circuit" fault. The only way I can see short to plus is if the ground side (pin2) is shorted to gnd somewhere.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

think if the ecu cannot control the ground side what is left ? + .

it can be open circuit or short to plus . ecu cannot distinguish it . ecu only controls the ground.

still you may have a bad n290(n276) valve when running it wigs out when temperature is rising!!

test the ciruit when working and at temp. may pass bench test cold.

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Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

also the 4v reading it is pulse width modulated . its not a constant on and off . it switches so that this why the 4 v reading . voltage drop the wire to verify the same readings (need to get the antitheft bolts out to properly test Mike)

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I agree that the ECU controls the ground, and yes pwm was my thinking as well. Hence I tried the output test. The output test should cycle all the way from 0 to max (no in between pwm). But it only goes from 0 to 4, rather than 0 - 12v (as I would expect). That was my concern. As for the temperature related possibility, fuel pressure is low on start up and stays like that all the time. So it seems to be doing it all the the time. Bench test showed 8v drop across the coil when applying 12v direct to it (not sure what the resistance spec is).The connector on the n276 is cracked, and my concern was that an open circuit is possible (intermittently) but, it can differentiate between short to + and open circuit. I ran it with the harness disconnected and the code that comes up is "open circuit". So it's definitely got something to do with power being constantly supplied to the coil. We know pin1 is constant 12v, so to complete the circuit it needs a ground on the other side. My thinking is one of two things: either a ground path is on the pin 2 line somewhere between t14c and ECU (causing a secondary circuit that the ECU can't control), or the ecu is faulty and doesn't output 12v on that line (and at 4v Max output means there is a constant 8v supply on the coil). Faulty ecu? Also, one of the mvbs should tell me what the pwm output is on that pin so i can verify, no?I know about the security bolts. That's why I was avoiding that work unless absolutely necessary. Which seems to be the case now. I will be checking the pin2 line to the ecu for any shorts (or paths) to ground and let you know.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

got it . note if you see the diagram the 12 volts power other things on that fuse too just remember

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ya, I know. The 12v line is battery voltage, and on when its supposed to be on, off when it's supposed to be off. No issues there.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

ok keep me in the loop!!

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok so, screws came out easier than expected. Ecu disconnected, pin 2 to pin A45 (smaller connector - I assume, becuase 45 on the larger was no continuity), has continuity and none to any ground, nor plus (ie no continuity between pin 1 and 2). So it looks like ecu is commanding only between 0 and 4v Max. I am thinking it should be able to go up to 12v. Ecu faulty? Any other ideas?
To summarize:
12v (pin1) has contact with d107 and is supplying b+ properly. Pin 2 has contact with ecu pin A45 and no contact with gnd or b+. I suppose to make absolutely sure it's not being fed power or ground from another circuit I could remove that one pin from the ecu, plug everything else in and power it up, then check line voltage - should see nothing on it (with n276 disconnected).
2nd, can I code a new (used) ecu with vcds? Or is this in the gen of immo's that vcds doesn't work on because you need the SKU/pin?
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

need pin if you use used or new ecu . dealer on that programming.

ecu is not commanding 4 volts. think of this 50% duty cycle on a 12 volt system is 6 volts .

if wiring is good and you have stated that its good then the n276 valve is at issue.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Just verified pin2 wire to ecu (isolated at either end. No voltage to either gnd or +, and no continuity to either. So wire is good. 4v comes from ecu, yes. And I understand his pwm works. 4v would be 33% duty cycle (or 66% depending on which end you're coming from). So why command 4v? If it's detecting short to plus that means it's trying to close the valve but can't. If I have constant B+ supply, grounding the other side would cause current flow (ie 0v relative to ground), if I am trying to stop current flow I need to being pin 2 to the same 12v potential (between pin and gnd) so that +12v on pin 1 and +12v on pin2 = 0 potential across coil and there for off. So if ecu was trying to close valve then I would expect to see 12v (or near) on pin2. Instead I have 4v, meaning 8v across coil (so 66% open, so to speak). Am I missing something hear?
Ok, so it's the n276. How? I don't understand how it's failed. Can you explain?
If coil is shot and circuit opens, does the valve fail open or closed? I would assume open to bleed fuel (safe fail). But apparently the valve opens when energized. So that means disconnecting it would leave it closed, building pressure, but that doesn't happen because I have the same rail pressure with n276 connected and disconnected. So somethigs not adding up here.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

do this instead place a dirty overlay wire from the ecu to pin 2 is the voltage drop on that wire ?

lets prove this with eliminating the wiring of the vehicle and use a known good wire. you get what I'm doing here?

and try to run the car and see if you have still the same rail pressure

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Sorry, didn't follow what you were doing there. Is the n276 connected while doing this?Where do you want to check for voltage drop? Between pin 2 (at harness) to ecu end? I have a tool that I use to check for bad wires, it's for testing grounds but the same principle applies. I connect the test lead (gnd) to one end and the probe tip, which can either suppy 12v or supply gnd, to the other end of the wire. I supply 12v and if the wire is good it shorts and trips the breaker. If it's a bad wire then it'll register a voltage (which is the voltage drop). It's a handy tester.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

electricity goes to the least path of resistance that is why i have asked to place a "dirty" overlay from pin 2 to the ecu pin to see if the pump works again and produces pressure!!

thanks

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
im a little confused. Did I misunderstand how this valve works? What does it do and how does it do it? I.e. What does energized do, build pressure or dump it?
It seems like your concern is the ground wire to the ecu is "dirty" ie has too much voltage drop and therefore can't energize the valve properly, is that right? but the symptoms are the inverse of this. The ecu is detecting too much voltage and can't "open" the circuit.I have set up a kind of breakout terminal to monitor various things at the n276 while it is connected and running. Here's what it looks like:
Pin1 is B+
Pin2 in open circuit is 4v (coming from ecu)
Pin2 in closed circuit is B+.
I can see why it would detect short to plus, but why? Coil shorted? Cuz it's clicking on and when I trip it manually. Coil resistance is about 3ohm. Don't know the spec but seems normal for a coil.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
As if it wasn't confusing enough, get this...
I hooked up an ammeter to the circuit of the n276 (isolated, not through engine wiring harness), and my tool that allows me to supply 12v to activate components. So when I touch the probe tip to a component it goes green or red depending on if it's low (gnd) or high (b+), or it will display a voltage (which is the voltage relative to ground at that point). So it goes green, this makes sense because the other end is grounded and I have a compete circuit (continuity). I supply 12v from the switch and current is 0 (so no electrical flow). How does that happen? If it is a complete circuit it will do one of two things: short (in which case breaker in tool trips) or display current if there is enough load to prevent short. Neither one happens but somehow I have a complete circuit with no current when voltage is applied. I'm starting to think its the N276, I just can't explain why
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

Mike not to knock you please do the dirty overlay test that I have requested !!

I've been working on VW's for 19 yrs .

That is what I think also its the n276 is the issue but with overlay this will prove its the wiring or the n276

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I tried that, but its surprisingly difficult to get the wire to contact the pin. I tried using a splice comnector but it was giving me an open circuit fault (despite having continuity). however, doing some searching online I was finally able to find an N290 test procedure. The spec says(###) ###-####ohm for the coil. This is much higher than I have, and higher than I would have expected. I would says there's an internal short now. But what gets me is that the solenoid did open and I've heard it click. Must be intermittent (once pulled out, with all the handling). I'm going to replace and let you know.
Audi Mechanic: Wolfgang, Audi master tech replied 1 month ago

got it!!!

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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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