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Have 2008 audi quattro with six cylinder.is it normal for…

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Have 2008 audi quattro...

Have 2008 audi quattro with six cylinder.is it normal for drivers side tank gets empty first then the passenger side.having trouble with fuel gauge

Mechanic's Assistant: Has the vehicle turned into a gas hog? And how does it start -- same as usual?

No problems

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Quattro yourself? What have you tried so far?

Both floats and transfer tube.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

The gas gauge shows full until it starts reading from pass side float.drivers side gets empty first.not sure if thats normal

Submitted: 3 months ago.Category: Audi
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Answered in 16 minutes by:
3/7/2018
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago
AudiDoc
AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner
Category: Audi
Satisfied Customers: 6,567
Experience: I've been working on Audis since I was 18 and own an independent Audi repair and performance shop
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Ok, this has been an issue on a few C6 A6s that I have worked on. Unfortunately, diagnosis often will require the VCDS or Vag-Com or other VW/Audi specific scan tool, since you'll need to make the gauge cluster run through a few self tests, and you'll need to have both floats out of their homes or at least exposed so that you can manually lift and lower them. Here is the full procedure. Unfortunately, if the cluster is indeed faulty, it will require dealer coding in order for the ignition keys to function properly.

1. Perform the guage sweep on the Instrument Cluster Control Module J285 and check the Fuel Gauge G1 operation.

A. Select Address Word 17-Dash Panel Insert.

B. Select Function 03-Output Diagnostic Test Mode (DTM).

C. The Instrument Cluster will run through its outputs. One of the first tests will be a guage sweep of the G1. The needle should move from the full left to full right and back to the 1/2 tank position.

2. If any portion of the actuator test doesn't respond correctly, an internal issue with the Instrument Cluster is indicated.

A. Before condemning the module, be sure to verify all power, ground, wiring and connectors into the module first.

3. Manually move the float for the Fuel Level Sensor G and the Fuel Level Sensor 2 G169 (for Quattro vehicles only) and check their operation.

A. Select Address Word 17-Dash Panel Insert.

B. Select Function 08-Read Measuring Value Blocks (MVB).

C. Enter Display Group 008. The 1st and 2nd fields will provide feedback on the G sensor (liters and ohms respectively). The 3rd and 4th fields will provide feedback on the G169 sensor (liters and ohms respectively).

4. If the scan tool values change during the sweep but the G1 gauge doesn't respond, an internal issue with the Instrument Cluster is present.

A. Before condemning the module, be sure to verify all power, ground, wiring and connectors into the module first.

5. If the scan tool values for the G and G169 sensors don't change, check the wiring between the sensors and Instrument Cluster. Check for opens, shorts and high resistance.

A. Pin T5a/2 Violet/Black (LI/SW) at the sensor connector goes to pin T32/6 Violet/Black (LI/SW) at the Instrument Cluster.

B. Pin T5a/4 Violet/White (LI/WS) at the sensor connector goes to pin T32/7 Violet/White (LI/WS) at the Instrument Cluster.

6. Verify pin T5a/3 Brown/Black (BR/SW) at the sensor connector has a good sensor ground present.

A. Pin T32/5 Brown/Yellow (BR/GE) at the Instrument Cluster provides the ground to the sensors.

7. Using a DVOM (Digital Volt Ohm Meter), measure the resistance of the G and G169 sensors directly at the sensors. There should be a steady, smooth sweep of the resistance values as the float arm is moved from one position to the other.

A. The resistance range is 45-1010 ohms.

B. Measure between pins T5a/2 Violet/Black (LI/SW) and T5a/3 Brown/Black (BR/SW) for the G sensor.

C. Measure between pins T5a/4 Violet/White (LI/WS) and T5a/3 Brown/Black (BR/SW) for the G169 sensor.

8. If the wiring between the sensors and Instrument Cluster is okay and the G and G169 sensors are internally correct, an internal issue with the Instrument Cluster is present.

A. Before condemning the module, be sure to verify all power, ground, wiring and connectors into the module first.
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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
i do have both floats out . only pass floats reads when you move up and down slowly.drivers side nothing and on scaner says not available for drivers side.and drivers side tank gets empty first.is that normal
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

What scan tool are you using?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
autel maxisys.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Ok, good. I've got one of those also. Have you done the output test to test the cluster directly?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
no but i have sent out to get it checked and came back good
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Could you try it for me, so that you can see the gauge move for yourself? I have a strong feeling that it's likely the culprit, but if you go through the test steps as I posted previously, this will confirm. That scan tool does have all the functions needed to perform those procedures also.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
ok will try .but is it normal for one side gets empty first
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Yes, that part is normal, since the fuel pump is in the right side. Pretty common for most vehicles with a saddle-shaped tank.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
which one is g1 sensor
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

G1 is attached to the pump (right), G169 is the left.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
We've got discrepant continuities from your suggestions in step 5.At connector T32, for sensor G, Pins 32 and 3, and for sensor G169, pins 32 and 11, reported continuity--rather than 6 and 7 as suggested. Is that good/bad?Also, the initial fuel gauge needle swing went from empty to full to empty AGAIN before settling at half-full. Any trouble indicated there?The most troubling part of our scan is that G169 reported NO values (Value N/A) in step 3C.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Give me a few to read through and compare.

So, the instrument cluster is working properly in its self-test. That's good.

The continuity tests don't look quite right though. You're putting one probe on the sensor connector, and the other into the tiny hole in the cluster connector, for each test in steps 5a and 5b? Let me check the wiring diagram again. It may take a few

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
i had a 4cylinder turbo same year and checked the float reading and i do see see the readings on the scanner.but on the car i am working it said not available for G169.?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Here's what I need to do. I have one of these coming in tomorrow. It's actually one of my cars that I sold to a customer. 08 A6 wagon. When I get in tomorrow morning, I'm going to connect to it to see if I'm seeing the same fields you are. Sorry for the delay, but some of these sorts of things requires some hands-on time.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
please. thank you.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Sure thing, glad to help

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
any news.?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Unfortunately, I had a no show by that customer today. I'm doing a little reading through our session right now, to see if there was anything that wasn't done right. I'm also comparing steps 5 and 6 with another wiring diagram to make sure the pinouts are correct.

Also, so I'm clear, when you're in display group 008 for the level sensors, what exactly shows in fields 3 and 4? Just N/A?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
n/a sensor #2
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

See that's indicating to me that there's a continuity problem along the way somewhere, since if that field wasn't built-in, or shall I say expecting a figure, it would just be blank.

Still checking for a diagram. I'm finding everything *but* cluster right now in my other info system.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
please keep in touch.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
wondering,any news?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Ok, unfortunately, I only have the one diagram for this system, and it corresponds with tests 5&6 that I posted previously. Now I need to be clear about the continuity measurement first. And believe me, I'm not trying to be patronizing. I deal with a lot of different skill levels on here, and obviously, I don't know your skills, even though it seems like you've been able to work through these work steps well.

So let's revisit step 5 specifically. You had a DVOM set to ohms, one lead into pin 2 on the car side of the right fuel sender(purple/black), and the other into pin 6 on the cluster connector (also purple/black), and you're seeing continuity? Same with the left side, Pin 4 (purple/white) and pin 7 on the cluster (same colors)? Sorry, not trying to be redundant.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Okay. A simple audible continuity test reveals the following discrepancies from your description (so far):(1) The violet/black wire from G1 (right-side, main pump sender) rings continuous at 32-pin socket # THREE, not number SIX.(2) Of interest, a brown/yellow wire from the same sender rings continuous 32-pin socket number THIRTY-TWO.(3) There is NO violet/white wire on the left-hand secondary sender G169. Only a violet/black wire, like on the other side. The G169 violet/black wire rings continuous on 32-pin socket number ELEVEN.(4) Also, as with the right-hand G1 connector, a brown/yellow wire from from G169 rings continuous on 32-pin socket THIRTY-TWO.It sure seems like the wiring diagram you've sourced and our car do not match up. . .
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Ok, great responses, and again, not doubting your ability or methods at all, just need to be sure. Can you throw me a VIN please?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
WAUDH78E88A168877
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Hey:Just now re-reading your responses. Looks like your answers apply to an A6.Our car is an A4.Things are more clear now.Clearest of all is that my apology to you is in order.It's appearing that the wiring is intact, which starts to point to an internal cluster problem. . .though of course, I'd value your take.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Oh, man, that's a bummer. But honest mistake. I'm under a bit of end of day crunch but will stick with this, and go back through ASAP.

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Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

And now also re-reading, all you said initially was 2008 Audi Quattro. I also made the A6 assumption. Back as soon as I'm able

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
good morning, wondering if you have any updates for the 2008 a4 quattro.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Just got into the shop this morning. Let me have my Monday morning meeting with my guys and I'll rehash this using the VIN, and we'll get to the bottom of it. Maybe a half hour or so.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
thanks
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Actually, I came across this already. It *may* apply to your situation. Take a look through and I'll get back to this shortly

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
the first thing i did replace both fuel pump assembly and the drivers side float.
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Yep got that. Methodically digging through wiring diagrams now

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Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Ok, here's updated wiring information. Let's see if this changes things.

Continuity tests:

Pin 2 on each gauge sender connector.

G1 goes to cluster pin 32/3 (both should be purple/black)

G169 goes to cluster pin 32/11 (Also purple black)

Knowing this, if you've got continuity, you should be able to do a sweep resistance test at the cluster for these senders also.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Sweep resistance test at the PINS seems good.However, when connected to the CLUSTER, moving the driver's side float (G169) there seems to be no response on the gauge.This fits with a previous observation using the scan tool, where no values were reported in those second two fields.Your thoughts?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Again, for clarity, sweep resistance at the pins right on the sensor, or sweep resistance checking at the connector that is disconnected from the cluster? But when you plug the connector into the cluster, that's when it fails? If this is the case, it's presenting as a failed cluster

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
34; it's presenting as a failed cluster."GMTA.If a used replacement cluster is sourced, do you know of any dealer-specific synchronizing necessary to make that new/used cluster work in the car? (Remember, I have an Autel maxisys.)
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

And therein lies a big issue. Aftermarket scan tools can't perform immobilizer coding. Part of the immobilizer circuit is in the cluster. So, factory scan tool, and subscription for coding.

I know you mention you had the cluster checked, but without knowing the outfit who checked it, I'd have to recommend BBA-Reman in Taunton, Mass. Otherwise, it's going to have to be a dealer visit, unfortunately.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Howdy:I'm now checking resistance at both senders (and at the matching pins at the blue cluster connector). Both have observed resistance ranging from 55 ohms to 300 ohms. Your previous guide (written for the A6, NOT the A4) stated a range from 45 to 1010. I suspect the A4 senders' range might be different by design. Am I right?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Hey there. I can try to find the related resistance info on the A4 sensors. I would think that if *both* sensors are within this range, that's likely normal, but let me dig through and see what I can find officially.

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Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Ok, and official range is (52.7 - 57.9) to (295 - 305) ohms on each, so it looks like you're getting proper info all the way to the cluster.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
BBA has given up on repairing our cluster.One local Audi dealer has indicated that it would NOT be possible to program another used cluster to this car.Do you know differently?
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
wondering if you have any updates?
Audi Mechanic: AudiDoc, Independent Audi Shop Owner replied 3 months ago

Oh, shoot, totally missed your response Friday. So, I know on the previous version A6 (C5), clusters could be swapped, and immobilizer coding transferred, but mileage could not be changed. I would imagine that, officially, this is likely the case with the C6 clusters as well.

Now, I know there are plenty of chinese programming tools floating around on eBay to do "mileage correction" and immobilizer coding, but I have yet to try one, so I can't recommend any one over another. Which brings us to the unfortunate "official line" of new cluster install and coding at the dealer.

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