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I am trying to find some voltage specs to check the

Hi. I am trying...

Hi. I am trying to find some voltage specs to check the operation of the main power relay (Realy #1) on a Viking dual fuel range VDSC 307. The bake and broil functions died at the same time, so I think it is the relay. But before dropping $100 on a new relay I want to check the operation of the one that's in their now. All I need are the voltages to test. How much do you guys charge for your service.

Contractor's Assistant: Can you guesstimate how old your Viking is? And just to clarify, what's the exact model?

It is 12 years old. The serial number indicates that it was manufactured on 06/05/06.

Contractor's Assistant: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?

Yes. Replacing the relay should be a simple job. And I am aware of the dangers of working with 240V.

Contractor's Assistant: Anything else we should know to help you best?

That I have a multimeter.

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Customer reply replied 9 days ago
One more thing....the wires going to the relay look OK.
Customer reply replied 9 days ago
Getting late here. Are you folks going to be getting back to me tonight?
Customer reply replied 9 days ago
Going to bed now. If you can send me some information that will be great. I will check email tomorrow morning.
Customer reply replied 9 days ago
Hello, hello. I'm back online and ready to chat.
Answered in 18 hours by:
7/11/2018
Kelly
Kelly, Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 25,686
Experience: Highly accurate diagnostician with over 30 years experience!
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Please allow me just a few minutes to prepare some information for you, thank you!

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
ok

On the relay, test between red/black and red, L2 & L1, respectively. You should read 240 VAC between those two wires.

When the relay is energized to close, you should read 240 VAC between gray and orange.

See the attached page. If you would like the complete service manual, I do have that as well.

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Ugh. I have a po
hone call. Give me a couple of minutes.

No worries, thank you.

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
I'm back..... Thanks. Looking at the picture now.
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
if I turn the oven selector to a bake or broil setting, I should see 240V between the Gray and Orange terminal. Is that correct?

You bet!

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Is that the only test I need to do to see if the power relay is operating?
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Do I need to also check the White and Yellow/Black terminals for voltage or resistance?

Yes, if it is getting power to close (120 VAC at the white and yellow/red).

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The relay control voltage comes in on the yellow/red, neutral on white. When power is applied there, the number 1 relay closes to allow the L1 & L2 line voltage to get through to the elements.

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Got it. How is the control voltage applied? What I want to make sure of is this..... if I select a bake or broil setting and i don't see 240V at the output terminals, can I then say for sure that the relay is bad? Or could the problem have something to do with the control voltage?
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Another data point.....the Cycle light does come on when I select a function. So does this eliminate the control voltage as a problem cause?

Well, you would need to select a bake cycle, see if you read 120 VAC at the white and yellow/red. If you do and you have the 240 VAC between red & red/black but not between gray & orange, the relay is faulty.

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
OK, so the control voltage across WH and YEL/RED is 120V. Got it. I understand the relay function now. Hopefully it's bad and I can just pop a new one in. Do you have any recommendations of where to order one? None of the parts folks here (Portland) can carry Viking parts.

You bet! Please allow me just a few minutes to prepare some information for you, thank you!

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The company at the link below handles Viking parts and is great to deal with. They know their product! :)

CLICK HERE

If you would be so kind, would you please remember to rate my service USING THE STAR SCALE at the top or the bottom of the page before you leave today? You may post back at anytime with follow up questions. Please let me know how I may earn your 5 star rating! Thank you so much!

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
OK. I have what I need for now. I will check the relay as soon as I get home. (At the office right now.) Thanks.

Sounds good, thank you!

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Update: I just checked the relay and it is good. 255V in and 255V out. Now what?
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Still no bake and no broil. I checked the bake element and it is approximately 20 ohms, so I assume it is good. I didn't check the broil elemen, but I did notice that the small element at the top is heating up slightly.
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
That small element heats up even with the selector on a bake setting.
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Correction -- I just took a closer look. It's not a "small" element, it's the broil element that is heating up. Hot to the touch, but nowhere near hot enough to do any cooking.
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Late here now. Going to bed. I'll check back tomorrow morning.
Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Summary for today: Relay appears to be good 255V in and 255v out with 120V control voltage. Bake element has continuity, 20 ohms. There must be some power making it to the heating elements. With bake selected the broil element heats up slightly -- hot to the touch but not hot enough to cook. When I pulled the bake element out to test it for continuity one of the leads touched against the oven back and created quite a spark. But the bake element does not heat up at all.Please advise next steps.....thermostat?

If the relay is good and the elements are good, the issue is with the Selector Switch. Nice job!

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
Two questions:
1) Is it common for a bad selector switch to cause both bake and broil elements to not function? (Another data point: when I select a convection setting the oven fan does work.)
2) Is it relatively straightforward to test the selector switch?

That is the only thing in the circuit that could cause the voltage to the elements to not be good, provided the relay is good. The wiring diagram shows where the element voltage comes from, you can test there but must do do with power so a ;load is applied. The bake element is energized on the I terminal on the selector switch.

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Customer reply replied 8 days ago
The picture that you sent me only has the top part of the wiring diagram. Can you send me the complete wiring diagram?
And do you think the thermostat could be the problem cause, or do you think it is most likely the selector switch?

If you are getting some heat from the elements, the thermostat is good. It has to be the selector switch. The complete service manual is available for download at the link below.

CLICK HERE

If you would be so kind, would you please remember to rate my service USING THE STAR SCALE at the top or the bottom of the page before you leave today? You may post back at anytime with follow up questions. Please let me know how I may earn your 5 star rating! Thank you so much!

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Customer reply replied 7 days ago
Great. Thanks. That will be tonight's project -- checking the selector switch.
Customer reply replied 7 days ago
Any hints?

Hints? Just measure the voltage out of that I terminal to the bake element. You should read 240 VAC between that terminal and the orange from the relay when set to bake. If you do not, the switch is bad because we know the gray input voltage to the selector from the relay is good.

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Customer reply replied 7 days ago
that's what I was looking for. Thanks. I'll check back in tonight or tomorrow morning.

Sounds good, thank you.

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Customer reply replied 7 days ago
Ugh......one more question. Is the selector switch purely mechanical, that is, does it need any power to operate? If not would it be a useful test to check for continuity between l and L2 with the selector in a bake position?

It is only mechanical but testing continuity is not an accurate test because poor contacts may show continuity but fail (open) when a load is applied (current is drawn through them).

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Customer reply replied 7 days ago
Ah. Right. Thanks.
You bet!
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Hello, I see this question is still open and I was just following up to see if you require further assistance.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
Thanks so much for checking back. I have not had a chance to check the voltage at the selector. I hope to get to it later today.

Thank you.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
OK, I'm thinking the selector switch is indeed bad, but I don't completely understand the voltage readings I am seeing. I get the same readings with the cylce light on and the bake selector OFFas I do with the cycle light on and the bake selector ON.I see 240V between Selector pin L2 and Power Relay Grey, and 240V between Selector pin 1 and Power Relay Grey. Between Selector pin L2 and Power Relay Orange, and between Selector pin 1 and Power Relay Orange I see 0V. (Sometimes on the 0 readings the multimeter minus sign shows up which I don't quite understand either.What is your take on all this?

Relay gray and selector L2 are both the same wire. The gray wire from the relay is what is connected to the selector L2 terminal. So, with the oven set tto bake, you should read 240 VAC between the relay orange (L1) and the selector L2. If you do, then test relay orange to selector 1.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
Nope. Relay Orange to Selector L2 reads 0V (with that funky minus sign sometimes).

Yet orange to gray on the relay you read 240 VAC?

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
with the Cycle on.

If that is the case then you have a broken connection in that gray wire from the relay to the selector switch.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
OK, that makes sense for the Selector ON. But I don't understand why would I read 240V on L2 with the Selector OFF? In the meantime, after dinner (had to use the grill) I'll check the continuity bewteen Power Relay Grey and L2. If it is open that's pretty much it.
Customer reply replied 5 days ago
Just to clarify, the voltage reading I don't understand above is between L2 and Relay Grey with the Selector OFF.

The L2 is the relay gray...so you should not read anything testing between those two leads unless it is miswired somewhere. If you follow that gray wire from the relay, it has a connector that runs to the L2 at the selector switch. If you disconnect that L2 wire at the selector switch and then test to gray at the relay, you will read no voltage. You are picking up the L1 through the element and the closed selector switch contacts. The issue has to be a bro***** ***** wire between relay and selector switch.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
No continuity between Relay Gray and L2. So the good news is that it doesn't sound like a $108 relay or a $95 selector switch. The bad news is that, peering into the range I see that the wire from Selector L2 goes into a wiring connector at the back of the range. How do I get to it and how do you suggest I proceed now.?
Customer reply replied 5 days ago
The wires and connectors at the Relay and Selector look OK to the naked eye.
Customer reply replied 5 days ago
I have the service notes manual but I don't have anything that shows the connector arrangement.

You will just have to follow the wire from the selector switch to the connection to the gray wire from the relay output. I am not 100% certain where that connection is physically located.

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Customer reply replied 5 days ago
OK. How do I get to that connector, through the back, do I have to remove the top? (I have not pulled the stove out from the wall yet .)
Customer reply replied 5 days ago
More information -- the wire from the Selector goes into a wiring bundle and then to the back of the range where there are a number of connectors. I can see that much by peering into the area behind the front panel. I will need to reach those connectors and need to know how to access them. I have not pulled the range out from the wall yet so I don't know what the back looks like. My hope is that access to the connectors will either be through some back panel rather than having to take the top off the range. I don't see any information pertinent to this in the service notes manual.

Some of them you can get to from the back but if you remove the service panels and still no access, you will need to remove the top.I have not had to access that area in this model so you will just need to experiment with some disassembly depending on what you see for the wire you are trying to access.

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Customer reply replied 3 days ago
OK, thanks. I'll give it a go tonight if I get a chance.

Thank you.

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Customer reply replied 3 days ago
More info to help identify the connector: There are four connectors, two large and two small. Looking from the back, the fried connector is at lower left. And one additional piece of information -- there doesn't appear to be a whole lot of play in the wires.

Oh my, wow! Yeah, that definitely is the issue! The part number will be for the main wiring harness but, honestly, I would just splice a wire in there using heavy butt connectors and avoid replacing the entire harness which will be a complete nightmare to disassemble the entire range!

Nice find!

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Customer reply replied 3 days ago
I was thinking along those lines as well. I am so glad that is what you are suggesting :) . And I think there is enough play in that wire to make the connection. That will be tonight's task.

Just make sure you use heavy enough wire and that same style that is heat resistant. Also, be sure to get a good connection at each end to avoid any future issues. You should be good to go after repairing that wire. Very well done!

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Customer reply replied 3 days ago
Will do.

Thank you!

If you would be so kind, would you please remember to rate my service USING THE STAR SCALE at the top or the bottom of the page before you leave today? You may post back at anytime with follow up questions. Please let me know how I may earn your 5 star rating! Thank you so much!

Kelly
Kelly, Appliance Technician
Category: Appliance
Satisfied Customers: 25,686
Experience: Highly accurate diagnostician with over 30 years experience!
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Customer reply replied 2 days ago
Final question (hopefully) -- what is the minimum guage wire connector I should use. I can buy temperature resistant butt connectors locally, but the largest they have is 14 gauge. Will that work?

For wire size, 12 gauge will handle 20 amps, I would use that and ceramic wire nuts instead of the 14 gauge butt connectors.

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Customer reply replied 2 days ago
Thanks. I thought that 14 gauge sounded a bit too small.

Yeah, it will handle 15 amps but that is cutting it close. I would go with the 12 gauge wire and ceramic wire nuts (ceramic so the plastic insulator does not melt).

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Customer reply replied 2 day ago
Done. It cost a ton of grunt work and a couple of scraped fingers but only $5.45 for two high-temp butt connectors and a foot of 12 gauge high-temp wire.
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