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I have a Haviland & Co. Limoges Pattern that was my great…

I have a Haviland...

I have a Haviland & Co. Limoges Pattern that was my great grandmother's that I can not find any examples of online. I has Green Roses with a pink background behind the flowers of what look like leaves. The handles have gold ribbon beginning and endings, The edges are scalloped with some gold on the inside and tops of the scalloped edge. Do you know the name of this pattern and when it was made?

Expert's Assistant: I always love having an appraiser look at my stuff. Sometimes its turned out to be surprisingly valuable. Is there anything else important you think the Antiques Appraiser should know?

Just that I have a large set of this that is on very good condition with platters, soup tureen, and cups, saucers, 3 sizes of plates and what not. But first I am looking for at least the pattern name.

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Answered in 4 minutes by:
3/18/2018
Diana F.
Diana F., Antiques Appraiser
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 9,065
Experience: Bachelor of Arts Degree (summa cum laude); 10+ years exp.
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Hi. My name is ***** ***** I'll be glad to help.

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Unfortunately, Haviland produced roughly 40,000 different patterns....most of which have no names at all, but I'll be glad to take a look and see what I can find.

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Do you have any photos of it that you can send?

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To send photos:

If your message box has a blue box that says "attach file" or a paper clip icon you can use that to upload photos. If not then you can click this link for instructions on uploading images
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http://ww2.justanswer.com/help/how-do-i-send-photo-or-file-expert-hl

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thanks,

Diana

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Hi. thank you. Do you have a picture of the mark on the bottom too?
~Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I sent a copy of a pic of the sugar bowl And the mark by message. K

Great. Thanks! I'll start researching and see what I can find.

~Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I have looked on line for images and at Replacements, but can find nothimgbon this exact pattern. My great grandmother was born in the mid 1800s. I am not sure, however when she purchased these. Well before I was born and I am 70.
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Where will I receive the information if you can find it? Email/Text? Let me know.

Hi. I'll do my best to find out for you. I'm not sure how the site notifies you. For me, I'm typing on a chat box/message board on the JustAnswer website. I believe you'll get an email notification with a link to the question when ever I reply to you.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you.

Hi. It took a while, but I think I found your pattern name. I can give you the name and the date when it was made. I noticed you didn't ask about a value for your set.

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Would you like that too? If so, I need a list of exactly what pieces you have. Depending on just what you have, the value can vary quite a bit.

Thanks,
Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I will send a listing later today for the estimated value. Can you tell me the information you have so far?

Thanks. I appreciate it. Sure I can tell you a bit now. The Haviland France mark is the maker's mark. That's who made the blank dinnerware. That mark was used from 1894 to 1931. The Haviland and Co. Limoges mark is your decorator's mark. It was used from 1876 to 1878 and then again from 1889 to 1931. That significantly narrows down the date of when your exact pieces where made.

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Haviland like most companies had a series of blanks and a series of designs that they could mix and match to alter and get new patterns and variations. It's what allowed them to be so successful and create those 40,000+ patterns I was talking about. It's also one of the reasons tracking down names are ***** *****

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What's even worse is Haviland sold blanks that home artists or small studios could paint and fire themselves. They also made "special versions" or a variation of pattern just for 1 retailer. Tiffany's dept. store may have gotten Pattern 1 with gold while Macys' got Pattern 1 with no gold. Some patterns have the same pattern on 4 different plate shapes. Most of it depends on which studio happened to paint that flower on that blank for that year.

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It looks like your china set was made used the #1 blank and the #30 decals.

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I look forward to seeing what pieces you have. Thank you.

~Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I am getting the pieces from storage and will send a listing and pictures today. My grandmother, the daughter of the original.owner of the set was a China painter and painted many limoges blanks. She died ay 102 in the 1980s. I had guessed that it was Blank 1. Based on your info, what would be the name of the pattern?

Hi. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I was away from the computer today. Thank you for the list and extra pictures. They're perfect. I'll take a look at them and put together some more detailed information for you.

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Thank you

Diana

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Hi again.

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That's very interesting about your grandmother. I've researched a lot of china over the years, but that's the closet connection I've ever seen to some of the old decorators. I wonder if I've ever run across some of hers and never known it.

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Given that it's used a Blank #1 and what looks like the #30 decals (which are a sort of bluish green rose design), I think your pattern is Bretagne. I thought it was going to be one fo the Schleiger patterns (which really aren't officials names, but a modern pattern name system that's been used since the 30s).

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I can actually give you prices both individually and as a set so you'll know the value of each piece and as a set. Here is a breakdown value for your pieces:

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9 10" dinner plates - $25 to $30 each

12 8" luncheon plates - $20 to $25 each

4 7" salad plates - $10 to $15 each

9 6" bread/butter plates -$15 to $20 each

4 5" dessert bowls - $10 to $15 each

9 3.5" butter pats - $25 to $30 each

4 4.5" saucers - $10 to $15 each

8 cups/saucers - $20 to $25 each

1 extra saucer - $10

1 12"x9" serving dish with lid -$100 to $125

1 9"x7.5" serving dish (veg bowl) - $60 to $85

16" platter - $125 to $150

12" platter - $40 to $65

gravy boat - $150 to $175

sugar $75 to $100

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As a whole set, it should have a resale value around $1500 to $1800. It will have an insurance value of $2400. The insurance is always good to know just in case something gets broken in shipping or transit.

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That should do it, but if I missed anything, please let me know.
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You're welcome to ask whatever you like or bargain with any sellers, but this is what your set is actually worth. The reason I broke it down is because sometimes you can get a higher value by breaking the set up or by piecing it out. Like you mentioned, it helps to know what each piece is worth.

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Deciding on which way to sell it really depends on how fast you need to sell it. If you'd like to sell it fast, I'd recommend selling it as one lot and in the lower price range.
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I'll be honest, the downside to selling china right now is that there are a number of people trying to currently get rid of their china so there is quite a bit on the market. It make take a few selling tries, but there are definitely collector's out there.
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I can give you a few ideas for selling if you're interested. For selling, Etsy and Amazon's marketplace are great alternatives to Ebay. There is also Rubylane, Tias, and Cyberattic. They're more like online antique shops. They do cost a bit more to list there, but they get higher prices. Etsy is a good alternative if you want some place with lower listing fees. They have the lowest rates around right now.
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Ebay is more or less a last resort. It does reach a lot of people, but the values tend to be lower. Ebay, like with any auction, you can expect about 1/2 of the actual value. You will always get a higher value by selling it yourself in a private sale as opposed to an auction or selling it to a dealer. If you do decide to try Ebay, consider using reserves.
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There is also craigslist. Your town might even have a facebook page dedicated to selling items (like an online garage sale). Some buyers have even started using apps or sites like LetGo or Varagesale. The only big downside to these is you always run a risk of meeting someone that may be dangerous. If you go that route, never have them come to your house. Always meet someplace very public and never go alone. I don't generally recommend any of those options because I would hate for something to happen to you. One generally safe option is meeting up at a local police station. A lot of towns allow sellers to use their parking lots as meeting places.

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I hope this has been helpful to you. I do my best to offer you the most current values and information using the latest guides and recorded sales.
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Please keep in mind I am only credited for my answer if you rate me positively. If you feel the need to use a lower rating which adds a negative mark to my profile or if you have any further questions about your item please feel free to reply to me and tell me what else I can do for you.

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If you're on a mobile device, please make sure to scroll to the top and click on the box that says finish rating! A box with stars in it should open.

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If you have any trouble doing that, please let me know.

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If you would like to use me on any further questions. Requesting me expires in just a short time. If you put my name (DianaF) in the question, that will make sure it gets to me.

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Have a great day and good luck!,

~Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Here and in the next couple of messages is the info and pics for appraisal. There are 73 pieces: 1 sugar bowl and lid, 1 graby boat, 16x12 platter, 9 10" dinner plates, 1 serving dish with lid 12x9, 1 serving dish 9x7.5, 8 coffee/tea cups, 9 saucers, 12 8" salad plates, 4 7" bowls, 4 5" bowls, 9 6" plates, 9 3.5" bowls, 4 4.5" plates.

Hi Kate. I'm not sure why you're replying with your pieces again. Did you not get my appraisal and info? I posted a complete breakdown of the value of your pieces.

~Diana

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I think you just got my first try to send you info. Got everything. Question, would you know anything about Chinese painting from the 16 an 1700s? Or know who would?

I know a bit. What kind of information would you be looking for? I can't translate anything and as far as I know, no expert here can. I also can't authenticate a piece because it would need to be inspected and, unfortunately, that can't be done through just pictures. I've appraised and value old woodblocks prints, ink paintings and paintings on silk before.

~Diana

Diana F.
Diana F., Antiques Appraiser
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 9,065
Experience: Bachelor of Arts Degree (summa cum laude); 10+ years exp.
Verified
Diana F. and 87 other Antiques Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Yea, I have had them translated and know the artists name and the year. One is from 1600 and the other from 1700. I also know some about the artists and what Emperor one of the pieces was painted for, but no idea what their worth might be. They come from the home of an Admiral in the US Navy- his wife"s mother collected Chinese art and these were originally hers and given to me by the Admirals wife. I suspect I will need to take them to an auction house to be authenticated.

Oh wow. I bet they are amazing. Given that you do know quite a bit, I could value them. For authentication, they need to be seen either by an auction house that will do those kinds of services or an appraiser than can look at them in person. If you want I can help you find one.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok. Here is my info on them. Translation and write up on painting #1 i call it Court Ladies and Green House. Date if execution is winter of 1766, Artist Lui Ru Ju Shi at Tong Ying Quan (house) from a work by Qui Bao Yu Ji during reign of Emperor Quan Long. This was painted either by someone named after the famous courtesan, a relative through her daughter or about the famous courtesan because Lui Ru Shi died in 1664. This is dated 1866, over 100 years,after her death from a woirk by a previous artist. This was painted during the reign of Emperor Quan Long (1711-1799) who was the sixth emperor of the Manchu led Wing Dynasty. It would be fitting if she were the subject of the work and the central character on the left as she was one of the Eight Beauties of Quinhaui described by late Suing officials. This piece is 251 years old.
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Write up an translation for painting #2 I call Court Ladies with Hill. Date of execution is 1672 Middle of Summer, Original Author Qain Shun Ju, Painter is Yu Shi Ding (born 1647 - an early work of the painter) artist for the Emperor Kang Xi. Yu Shi Ding's works are currently collected in the Forbidden City. The painter served in the Imperial Painting Academy during the reign of the Kang Xi Emperor. This piece is 345 years old.
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
If you think you can give me an idea of what they are worth, thank you so much.

Hi Kathy. I'll be glad to take a look at these. I didn't think about and should have mentioned it before. We're not allowed to add items to existing questions. You'll have to ask about the 2 paintings as a brand new question. If you put my name at the beginning, that will make sure the question gets to me. I'm sorry I didn't think to say that earlier.

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