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I have two interesting pieces of art I'd like to find out…

Customer Question
Hello - I have two...

Hello -
I have two interesting pieces of art I'd like to find out more about.
The first one is a portrait painting of a girl sitting at a piano or table. It is very folk art looking. It is painted on wood and the frame is built and incorporated into the painting by the artist
It is signed on the back "Saul Leiter 111 E 10th"
I acquired the painting in NYC in about 1984 (it was abandoned on the street in front of my apartment on w. 20th)
I just discovered that Saul Leiter (via google) is a fairly famous artist - primarily know as a photographer - although known as a painter as well. This particular painting is not typical of his more know style. I can send photos...
The other piece much more unusual is a needle point tapestry. It is obviously very old. It depicts a roman looking Man and Woman (based on the way they are dressed, with a herd of seven sheep. At the bottom of the needle point - stitched in, are the words (very hard to make out so I may be not exactly correct about the wording) are "Ann Noble's - Work'in Herd, at Mr. A. Evans School - Penrith"
I discovered that there is a Penrith England with a known 14th century castle famous for it's collection of Roman pottery and Art.
I'd love to hear your thoughts about these pieces.
Thank you!
Kevin McPheeters***@******.***
Salem Oregon

Expert's Assistant: I always love having an appraiser look at my stuff. Sometimes its turned out to be surprisingly valuable. Is there anything else important you think the Antiques Appraiser should know?

Hello -
I have two interesting pieces of art I'd like to find out more about.
The first one is a portrait painting of a girl sitting at a piano or table. It is very folk art looking. It is painted on wood and the frame is built and incorporated into the painting by the artist
It is signed on the back "Saul Leiter 111 E 10th"
I acquired the painting in NYC in about 1984 (it was abandoned on the street in front of my apartment on w. 20th)
I just discovered that Saul Leiter (via google) is a fairly famous artist - primarily know as a photographer - although known as a painter as well. This particular painting is not typical of his more know style. I can send photos...
The other piece much more unusual is a needle point tapestry. It is obviously very old. It depicts a roman looking Man and Woman (based on the way they are dressed, with a herd of seven sheep. At the bottom of the needle point - stitched in, are the words (very hard to make out so I may be not exactly correct about the wording) are "Ann Noble's - Work'in Herd, at Mr. A. Evans School - Penrith"
I discovered that there is a Penrith England with a known 14th century castle famous for it's collection of Roman pottery and Art.
I'd love to hear your thoughts about these pieces.
Thank you!
Kevin McPheeters***@******.***
Salem Oregon

Submitted: 3 months ago.Category: Antiques
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Answered in 12 hours by:
3/11/2018
Antique Expert: Rarewares, Antiques and Collectibles Researcher replied 3 months ago
Rarewares
Rarewares, Antiques and Collectibles Researcher
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 15,453
Experience: Antiques dealer for 12+ years and collector for 30+ years specializing in American and European porcelain, glass, art, furniture, coins, watches, sterling silver, pocket watches, and jewelry.
Verified

Hello,
My name is ***** ***** I would love to help. The next step would be for me to see pictures of the art,
signatures if any and back of completed framing for any writing or labels.
Use the Add Files feature on your screen to add pictures one at a time.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Hi Rarewares, Thanks for looking at the photo's attached. You will notice the first three are of the painting I have always called "Charlotte" - another weird thing happened when I took it outside in the sun to better capture the penciling on the back. I never noticed that it actually says "Sold to Saul Leiter 111 E. 10th St" obvious to me that 10th street is in Manhattan which is where I acquired the painting in 1982. So the mystery of who the artist is remains and any clues to that and perhaps it's value would be very appreciated.
The rest of the pictures are of the Needle point tapestry - all the close ups are of the sentence stitched on the bottom - which near as I can make out says "Ann Nobles - Workin Herd at Mr. A Evans School Ponrith" - again any info on it's origin and value would be appreciated.
Sincerely, ********@******.***(###) ###-####
IMG_1706.JPGIMG_1706.JPGIMG_1707.jpgIMG_1707.jpgIMG_1709.JPGIMG_1709.JPGIMG_1711.JPGIMG_1711.JPGIMG_1712.JPGIMG_1712.JPGIMG_1713.JPGIMG_1713.JPGIMG_1714.JPGIMG_1714.JPGIMG_1715.JPGIMG_1715.JPGIMG_1716.JPGIMG_1716.JPGIMG_1717.JPGIMG_1717.JPG
Antique Expert: Rarewares, Antiques and Collectibles Researcher replied 3 months ago

I am unable to find a match for these. I will opt-out and allow another expert to answer.
They will see our conversation and your photos. I am not able to respond once I opt-out. Good luck!

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Antique Expert: Nora, Expert in Fine and Decorative Arts: Renaissance through Contemporary replied 3 months ago
Nora
Nora, Expert in Fine and Decorative Arts: Renaissance through Contemporary
Category: Antiques
Satisfied Customers: 15,044
Experience: Liberal Arts BA College Degree, Post-Graduate Christie's Education in London, 10 Yrs Art World Experience in NYC, President & Founder own Corporation. Member AOA & ISA USPAP Compliant through 2019
Verified

Hi,

I will be happy to help with this painting as best as possible. I myself lived on 20th St along Gramercy Park in Robert Henri's old studio.

It is good you were able to find the additional 'sold to' notation, as this is definitely not a work by Saul Leiter (1923 - 2013). It is known that he lived at the 10th street address since the 1950s. The work itself is rendered in the naive, primitive folk art manner. Since Leitner was known as a street photographer, and he documented the 'every day' kind of person in NYC. It is most likely that the painting was a purchase by him to perhaps appease someone he knew from his street photography documentation and not a listed or known artist - hence why this ended up as a freebie on the street.

There is a documentary from 2013 on Leiter that is shot in his 10th street location, depending on when this painting came in to your possession, you may want to watch the documentary to see if you can spot this work in the background. It is called 'In No Great Hurry' and was directed by Thomas Leach. I believe it is viewable on youtube.

The images of the needlepoint are not showing here on this end.

Please take a moment to leave a rating by clicking the stars. If you require further assistance, no worries, the question thread does not close even after leaving a rating.

~Nora

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