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I have a question about the hydraulic Lift on my Ford 4000

Farm Tractor...
I have a question about the hydraulic Lift on my Ford 4000 Farm Tractor
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I received an email just now, asking how I liked the Just Answer response. I do not have a response I can find....thanks
Answered in 3 days by:
6/19/2017
Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 29,105
Experience: Technican turned service manager on multiple lines of equipment and rental equipment.
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Hi,let's see if we can work together to get to the root of your problem! will try my best to help!

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i see question has gone unanswered, I have been out of own, Do you still want help? Does the lift work at all? Will it lift with no load? Will it hold position, with engine off? Do you have oil flowing to the three point from the hydraulic pup? Any other hydraulics on tractor? Do they work?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
would like help. Lift does not work at all - can't lift to see if will hold or not. I don't know about oil flow. No other hydraulics on tractor. A little background. Tractor is old Ford 4000. 1969. Some months ago, lift would raise after I started tractor and let it run for about 30-45 min, it would raise lift. Then later, stopped lifting altogether. I needed to change the clutch - was worn out. I neighbor is pretty handy, had changed clutches on two or three fords. I asked if he could fix both clutch and lift. He said yes. He fixed clutch, but worked and worked and could not fix lift. I did not watch him, but he said the screens were stopped up. Said water was in Hyd Oil. So, he cleaned everything, new "O" rings and he said "the pump was working". I mean he was "turning the pump by hand" with it out of the tractor and said - it pumped. I do not know exactly what he meant. He said he checked everything again and again. If we decide to talk by phone, what is the charge for that and how many calls does it include???
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
See Pictures

I am back from DR appointment, are you ready for call?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Sorry, at Hospital with a friend and will be for about 2 hours. It will be at least 3:30 PM Central Time before I can talk. Does any of the above information make any sense? Do the pictures help? I did not mention that the young man who worked on it had given up on the problem/solution. He has no idea what might be wrong. Maybe we can talk abit today, then tomorrow I will be at my farm, and can go to the tractor and maybe you can walk me through a few things to do. Did you get the pictures? Are you familiar with this series of Ford Tractors? Mine was built in England. Thank you.

Yes, I know the tractor, picture # 2 has a plug on the upper squarish housing, lossen this plug and see if you have pressure from pump.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
OK. It will be tomorrow - probably around 11:30 Central before I can actually do that. Do I need to start engine, pull lift lever to "up" position and then check for Pressure? Or, just start the tractor, let it run for a while then pull up lever? As a note, the PTO seems to be working fine. The PTO turns when I pull the "lever" to "on" position and stops when I pull to "off" position. The PTO can be turned on/off without depressing the clutch. While I am at the Tractor tomorrow, I can have my tools handy and do any checking you suggest. Fell free to suggest anything else you might think of. I then can be prepared to do what you suggest. I am not too familiar with tractors/lifts, etc. However, I am pretty mechanically minded. I have rebuilt car engines and 3 speed manual car transmissions. I am currently doing a 1974 Corvette Frame off - total restoration. I mention that so you know - I know something about mechanical stuff. I have driven dozers, backhoes and this tractor. Just never had to work on them. Thank you for your help...

Loosen the plug, start tractor and see if there is pressure, or put a gage on it and see if it has pressure,

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Is the gauge similar to what you check engine cylinder pressure? I can probably borrow some sort of a gauge. I suspect it just screws into the threaded plug hole? If you need to send me a picture, that will be fine. I also have a fuel pressure gauge that I can adapt to fit the threaded hole if you think that will work

Gage needs to be 3000 lb gage.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I could not locate one today. It will be a couple of days I am afraid before I can get one. I will test, then back in touch...Thank you.

OK Thanks!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Curtis, I am sorry I have been so long. I just got my pressure gauge and will be at the Farm/with the Tractor around 2 PM Central Time. That is 2 and one half hours from now. Will you be available? I will hook up the gauge and check the pressure. Then we can talk. Thank you. *****(###) ###-####

I am on line now.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I am at the tractor - have pressure gauge on and no pressure. Want to call me at(###) ###-#### I have agreed to the call provisions ....

Site does not let me make direct call, and th eother call has expired. But with no pressure, if you remove gage, is there oil flowing? Pump may not be pumping, gear problem or suction tube off.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
do I need to select the call again? I don't mine talking. I clicked on the Phone call requested a while ago...

It is up to you, I'm not sure i'm worth it.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Well, I do not mind talking by phone. Is it just one call? The site says you are not available for a call right now?
I had the gauge on the top side. No pressure. I removed a bolt from the side plate and the fluid was under pressure...that screw port, I do not have a fitting for but will try to locate one here shortly. What do I need to do to get a call?

I don't know, I just try to take them when they pop up! So maybe there is pressure to the small port!

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I don't know why I would not be available!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
ok...just what the site says...???
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
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ExcellentSubmitRate 3 stars or higher to credit the expert.Curtis B.Curtis B.16 June 2017 04:27I have a question about the hydraulic...
I have a question about the hydraulic Lift on my Ford 4000 Farm Tractor16 June 2017 04:2716 June 2017 12:02I received an email just now, asking how I liked the Just Answer response. I do not have a response I can find....thanks19 June 2017 06:53Curtis B.
Curtis B.
MechanicHi,let's see if we can work together to get to the root of your problem! will try my best to help!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------19 June 2017 06:56Curtis B.
Curtis B.
Mechanici see question has gone unanswered, I have been out of own, Do you still want help? Does the lift work at all? Will it lift with no load? Will it hold position, with engine off? Do you have oil flowing to the three point from the hydraulic pup? Any other hydraulics on tractor? Do they work?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------19 June 2017 09:18Yes, would like help. Lift does not work at all - can't lift to see if will hold or not. I don't know about oil flow. No other hydraulics on tractor. A little background. Tractor is old Ford 4000. 1969. Some months ago, lift would raise after I started tractor and let it run for about 30-45 min, it would raise lift. Then later, stopped lifting altogether. I needed to change the clutch - was worn out. I neighbor is pretty handy, had changed clutches on two or three fords. I asked if he could fix both clutch and lift. He said yes. He fixed clutch, but worked and worked and could not fix lift. I did not watch him, but he said the screens were stopped up. Said water was in Hyd Oil. So, he cleaned everything, new "O" rings and he said "the pump was working". I mean he was "turning the pump by hand" with it out of the tractor and said - it pumped. I do not know exactly what he meant. He said he checked everything again and again. If we decide to talk by phone, what is the charge for that and how many calls does it include???19 June 2017 09:26These are the Pictures of the pump area...Look them over and then you can call me at 9:45 Central Time -(###) ###-####
Thanks - Bob Acre Ford 4000 Top Side Pump Area.jpg
Ford 4000 Oppsite Pump Side.jpg
Ford 4000 Pump Side.jpg19 June 2017 09:27See Pictures19 June 2017 11:00Curtis B.
Curtis B.
MechanicI am back from DR appointment, are you ready for call?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------19 June 2017 12:28Sorry, at Hospital with a friend and will be for about 2 hours. It will be at least 3:30 PM Central Time before I can talk. Does any of the above information make any sense? Do the pictures help? I did not mention that the young man who worked on it had given up on the problem/solution. He has no idea what might be wrong. Maybe we can talk abit today, then tomorrow I will be at my farm, and can go to the tractor and maybe you can walk me through a few things to do. Did you get the pictures? Are you familiar with this series of Ford Tractors? Mine was built in England. Thank you.19 June 2017 12:36Curtis B.
Curtis B.
MechanicYes, I know the tractor, picture # 2 has a plug on the upper squarish housing, lossen this plug and see if you have pressure from pump.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Here is the exact quote on the site...I copied it and pasted it....
Sorry, the Mechanic is unable to call you right now, but is still available for this online conversation. You have not been charged for the phone call

?? beats me!

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Check the pressure and then we can talk, I can use the old (offer additional services)

Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 29,105
Experience: Technican turned service manager on multiple lines of equipment and rental equipment.
Verified
Curtis B. and 87 other Agriculture and Farm Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I am on the phone with Just Answer now I will be available for a phone call in about 20 min or so

ok

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Call me now....***-***-****

Let me know on the pressure test, Thanks!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thanks Curtis, and I really appreciate getting to talk to you by phone today. At some point - possibly on a Saturday soon, I will get the guy who actually worked on the tractor on the phone with us. He can be very specific about what he did, what he saw when the 3 Point was off and he worked on it. thanks again....bob acre
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Curtis, on the picture I have no pressure at the port B. This is where the Auxiliary Hydraulic Hose connects. At the Port A - on the Pressure Control Valve, I have pressure. I cannot get an adaptor to hook my gauge there, so I don't know the pressure. Hope to do that tomorrow.

OK>

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
OK, I am finally back Curtis. I have checked two ports on the flow control valve - the unit above the Pump. I loosened the bolt and there is some pressure, because the Hyd fluid is pushing out around the bolt threads. I removed the bolt, attached the pressure gauge no readable pressure at all...What Next?
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
feel free to call me -###-##-####

Was there any air in fluid, like it is it aerating? This is the only hydraulics , no front loader. And with no pressure the pump may not be capable of putting up pressure. Or the suction line is leaking at the pump. Only way to know is to remove the pump and check the suction pipe and o'ring, and disassemble the pump and check the gears.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
As I was loosening the bolt fluid was oozing out around the threads. It did not appear to have air. Yes, no front loader. So the suction line pulls fluid from the reservoir into the pump? Is it a metal pipe? Can you see it with the pump out? Is the suction line attached to the pump? Is the O ring fixed somehow to the suction pipe attached to the pump? Is the checking of the gears to see if they have broken teeth? No sure what to look at on the pump? Thanks

The pipe is viable when pump is moved, and it just pushes into the pump, as pump is mounted! O'ring is on the lip of the suction tube. Pump gear wear into the end plate of the pump, it should show almost no wear, it it has wear and grooves worn in he end plates and gears, pump is no good. One way to test a pump is to pour oil into one side, a good pump will hold oil and very little leakage will come out the other side. A bad pump, the oil will run through it!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
OK, good comments. I will check this out but it will be a couple of days before I am back to the farm. Thanks again for your thorough explanation/comments. bob

Thanks!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Curtis, I am going to the Farm today and check the Pump as you mention. I will be there about 1:30 Central. Once I get the pump out, inspect, etc. I will probably want to visit by phone. Will that be possible? Thanks...bob acre

If you think it is necessary.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I worked for over an hour and was unable to get the pump to remove from the mounting position. Do I have to remove the flow control assembly first? I removed all of the bolts for each assembly and cannot get them to budge. Do I have to take the top assembly loose and do something then before the pump and flow control assembly will come out?

flow control tube , the tube between pump and flow control , has to be slipped up, it has a snap ring that you open, and then it can stay on tube while you move it up into the flow control housing to clear pump.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
OK, that's what I thought. I saw the ring and the two I will be back up there Monday to work on it some more. Do I need to take the flow control assembly out? It seems to be stuck hard in its position.

No,just slip up the tube far enough to clear the pump.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
What tool do I use to nudge the tube up? Pliers? I would think I need to be careful so as not to crush the tube? I will be working on the Tractor tomorrow around 10 AM to 3 PM. I will notify you after the pump is out and I check it according to your trouble shooting ideas you sent on July 12th @ 11:53. I am not sure I fully understand - but will give what I think you mean, a try.
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I am at the Tractor and have the pump off. I followed your advice and there is no leakage past the gears. Next idea???
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Curtis, are you available today? Can you call me now? (###) ###-####

Just got home from three day road trip. The gears in the pump would have to be excessively worn for fluid t run, though, itstiil could bad, butnotthat bad! Could yuu tell if the suction pip and oring were in place, isth passage to the flow control is open?

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I am about to leave farm and have pump with me. Took pictures and will send tonight.

OK>

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Curtis, I have three pictures. First is the opening on the tractor where the Pump sits (as you are very familiar). Second, the Main Pump Gears and Third, the cover with the side shown that runs against the two gears. You can see some markings on the side where the gears run. The two gears have some definite play of gap. In other words, I can turn one gear and the other does not move. There is a "clicking" gap. You can see the tiny gap on the picture of the gears. I am going to take the pump to the local NH dealer in the morning to look at it and see closely what I am describing to you. Do you have any suggestions at this point? Is there only one filter in the Hydraulic Reservoir? It is pretty clean, but there is some fresh debris on the screen. Isn't that an indication the pump is trying to "pump" fluid from the reservoir? Is there any likelihood the guy who did the work for me earlier, did not get the pump fitted back into the hole and the two pipes in the reservoir did not connect t o the pump? It seems that it would be hard to mess that up. Both tubes do have the "o ring" on them. Thank you.

I can turn one gear and the other does not move. Explain? Gears should turn together. I don't see a lot of wear, from what I see pump would work.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
What I mean is there is a small amount of slack in the gear teeth and so one of the gears moves slightly before the other one engages an moves.

Thats ok.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I just left Twin City new Holland in North Little Rock. Rick the service manager looked at the pump and the gear slack/movement and said that there should not be the movement/slack as he observed it. A new pump retail is $1000. A new pump aftermarket is about $350. I realize that Rick holding the pump in his hands and inspecting it is different than you looking at some pictures. I value the judgement of both of you. I have no idea whether it is a good pump. I just know it is not lifting the 3-point...

Before you invest in new aftermarket pump, follow the pressure line at pump, to the flow control, to the three point and see if there is an open passage. Do you have an air compressor to blow air through each passage?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Curtis, I apologize for being out of pocket several days. I am going back to the farm today and will do what you suggest. The Pump is still out of the tractor. So, I use the air to blow from the tube that is connected to the flow control and see if what happens? What exactly do you mean "open passage"? It that an "opening" somewhere in the system - open to the outside and I will hear air escaping? No exactly sure what to expect to happen. Thanks.

You want to be sure there is a way for the oil to get from pup, to the three point. So hole has to be open.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
OK - so there is sort of a hydraulic flow "line circuit" from the flow control to the lift cylinder under the seat? With enough pressure will it raise the arms?Also, did you ever get paid?

Yes, and I got paid on the 27th! Not sure air pressure would be enough to raise the arms.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
OK, so if the system has no "opening" the pressure will be somewhat "static" - like going no where?

Yes, pressure can't get to the three point piston and valve to lift it.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok - understand

Thanks!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Curtis, here is the update. I took the cover off (top with cylinder) and reinstalled the pump. Poured fluid into the case and started the tractor. The pump sputtered fluid up through the flow control valve. It would intermittently pump the fluid up (through the tube into the air) about 6 to 10 inches. The pressure could almost be stopped with a rag over the tube. It seems there is minimal pressure. This to me shows the pump just cannot pump any fluid at much pressure. Is this a valid test of the pump? We were running the tractor at 1800 - 2100 RPM.

Yes. pump flow should be constant and has to be capable of producing pressure , when flow is restricted, as not being able to hold with hand!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Thank you again for your coaching along in this challenge. I have found several sources of aftermarket pumps. Any suggestions? All in range of $350-400.

I see you re an early riser too! Any of the pumps should work.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Been up since 5:00...best to you and will keep you posted on the restoration project...

OK, off to Estate sale with wife!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Curtis are you working tonight? Have a question I will send...

I am here!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok. Installed pump. Put Top Cover on, started and nothing - no lift action. I did prime the pump with fluid before installing it. I put the gauge on and no pressure. I put in on the bolt hole where I originally saw fluid on the side of flow control valve/cover. Then I took top cover off, with full fluid - started and fluid gushed out the tube that comes up through the flow control valve. Thoughts??

This is where there was just minor oil flow before? Oil is coming to the flow control, and now is not going through the control valve to lift cylinder?

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Flow control valve stuck?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The Flow Control Valve is the "Valve Assembly just above the pump - on side of Tractor" - right? Where the fluid is gushing - is through the hole above the FCValve - the hole is a passageway in the wall of the tractor case. Am I making any sense ? It does appear to be coming through the FCV...

Yes, that is the flow control valve. If t comes through there, it should go to the lift cover control valve. Have you checked all the valves and springs in the lift cover and the piston for the lift cylinder?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Could the pump just not have been primed good...I only let it run about 4 or 5 min. No lift, then I took the top cover off and the flow was gushing.

No, pump should prime almost immediately. At least there is oil to the cover now!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
OK on the prime. SO, I have got to figure out why with such pressure up from the Pump, through the FCV and out the passageway in the case - the cylinder assembly sitting on top is not moving??? Thanks and I am open to any ideas...

Jut follow the oil passage, and see if there is a stuck lave or broken spring in the control section f the valve. and check the seals on the piston for cylinder. Usually going through the valves, and freeing up everything and new seals on the piston will get it going.

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Use air pressure to check passages in the lift cover.

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Off to bed!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
OK, will be Monday before I will be back at the farm. In the meantime - Look at the attached picture. What is the "A " labeled Pin? It is about 5 inches longs sold rod/pin. The top part is indented on the sides. It appear that the top might supposed to be able to turn, but it is frozen. The pin/rod did seem to move up and down with turning the flow control valve knob - shown in the picture behind the "B"... in the picture. On item B - That is the port where the Hyd Fluid was gushing upward. Maybe 12 to 18" high. Isn't that the fluid line in the case wall coming up through the FC Valve from the Pump?

The A , I thought was just a dowel for alignment. The B port is the exhaust from the lift cylinder! The port with o'ring, just up from this port should be the pressure port for the three point!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
OK - On the B Port I could be mistaken on the gushing flow - it probably was one with the O Ring. There was just so much fluid all of a sudden I could not be sure where it was coming from - but it was in that corner of the chamber. I don't think A is a dowel. It pulls out. When I was turning the FC Valve Knob, is slowly raised the pin/rod or dowel. You can see the arm with the cotter pin just to the left of the "dowel" . That arm moves and a finger (you can't see it) moves to raise the dowel up/down. I don't think the movement was more that 1/4 in vertical movement. Anyway, I will check things out Monday - air check, etc. Thanks and have a good weekend.

OK> Thank

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Curtis, I am checking out the top cover tomorrow. I took off the small auxiliary

OK< Will be here Monday, then off for three days!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Oops - I didn't finish. I took off the auxiliary top with all the o rings. They had not been put in properly, some were badly misaligned in the holes. So, what is the best way to insure the o rings are out in properly? As you recall the indentations for the o ring is in the cover. How do you get them to stay in place while putting the cover on? I am also going to check out all the passageways as you mentioned....thx

Use a heavy grease or use a silicon sealer, to hold them in place.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Ok...

OK> Later.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Curtis, good evening. I realize it is late and you may have signed off. But, here is a question. I will send you some pictures tomorrow. I took the "top" off again to check for loose or damaged springs, arms, etc. Everything looked good. I inadvertently took off the "cylinder" bolted beneath the cover. Here is what I have noticed that the person did who worked on the tractor for me. On all "O" rings he apparently used blue 3M sealant to seal the metal surfaces and liberally put it on the "O" rings. Almost without exception the "O" rings were moved, folded, out of place and not in their normal "seats". Could this have anything to do with the problem of no pressure in the cover or components? As mentioned last week - the new pump clearly is pumping under pressure - with this cover off. As you indicated, there must be problems with the passageways. I did check the cylinder and the piston has the "O" ring on it and the Teflon spacer to hold it firmly in place and the piston moves freely. When I applied air to one of the openings, the cylinder moved - quickly. Thoughts? Comments??

With too much silicon sealer, it can get into passages and plug them, blow out all the passages and check for blockage.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I will. Thanks. Also, last week you mentioned using heavy grease to hold the "o" rings in place while assembling the parts. With the "o" rings, is there any need to use the sealer on the metal to metal surfaces?

No, you do not need to seal the metal surfaces, though a thin coating does not hurt.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
K...I thought the O Rings were intended to "seal" and protect the passageways so they would be air tight. This guy put the silicone everywhere and very thick at that. Have a good evening and I will send some pictures and a couple of questions tomorrow.

OK> Off to bed!

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Good morning. I have some pictures one is the pump - "o" ring side, another the Aux plate "o" ring side , a pic of a Pin and a pic of inside the Case. All parts look good in case. I do not know what the Pin in the case is. It is not an alignment pin/stud. It moves up and down by the Flow Control Valve which moves the pin up/down when the valve knob turned. You can see the pin in this picture touching the flow control mechanism. Is there a possible problem with the Pin appearing to be corroded at the top and it appears frozen - in other words it looks like it is to swivel - but it's frozen. Thoughts?
Curtis Bottom Of Pump.jpgCurtis...jpgCurtis Aux Attachment Pl...jpgCurtis...jpgCurtis Box with Pin and...jpgCurtis...jpgCurtis Pin in Case.jpgCurtis...jpg

Pin only moves up and down, does not swivel. I would assume that the pin is used to give more or less feel to the lift control.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Ok...it should be ok. In looking at the O ring surfaces, you can see some of the silicone. On both surfaces some of the O rings we "doubled" as they were in the seat. What I mean is at least 2 or 3 O rings had folded to where they looked like a "C", in other words, one side of the O ring moved to the center of the opening. That is how they were positioned when I took the cover and cylinder off. There was some obvious obstruction on the hole-not to mention the silicone too.

Just do a lot of air checking , at each port and be sure that all are open and not plugged. Hopefully with all good, when it is replaced on tractor, it will work!

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Ok..thanks.

OK>

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Curtis, hope you have not suffered from Harvey. I finally got the pump fully in place, cleaned all ports of silicone and new o rings. Works Great!!! Thanks for all your help...Completely satisfied ...Best to you...

We weathered the storm! Only had about 8 inches of rain. No flooding. Glad you have the lift working! Thanks!

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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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