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Hi Curtis; My 1998 2120 has bent 2 steering cylinder in the…

Hi Curtis; My 1998 2120...
Hi Curtis; My 1998 2120 has bent 2 steering cylinder in the last 20 hrs. The tractor is used primarily for snow removal. It has a 7309 quick attach loader with a large light material bucket. 3000 hrs the steering pins and bushing are quite worn. The steering cylinders cost 800.00 a pop. purchased 2 so far. Most have the opinion that I need a bigger tractor. However this unit has been plowing snow since 98 with no changes in the set up. Why in the last few hrs have we bent 2 cylinders. I have reset the turn stops so the wheels can't as much, especially to the left when the rod is extended. The bolts on the plate at the back of the cylinder keep loosening and we have found the bolts loose on the RHS front drive where the cylinder is attached. We do most of our own wrenching but can't figure this one. Have ordered a new rod, pins, ball joints and bushings. Help if you can
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Answered in 21 minutes by:
12/6/2014
Mechanic: Curtis B., Technician replied 7 years ago
Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 43,590
Experience: Technican turned service manager on multiple lines of equipment and rental equipment.
Verified
I have to assume this is the 4WD 2120 not the two wheel drive. What has changed? What is happening to the cylinder? Rod bending I assume. Has the tie rod been moved? Is cylinder being over extended due to the axle stops not bottoming before cylinder hits the end of it's travel? Is front axle loose and cylinder rod getting into bind?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

The 72" bucket is large for the tractor and loader frame. if it is full of slush the loader has a job lifting the weight. The tractor and bucket was purchased new from a dealer who knew the primary use would be snow removal. The 72" bucket was to be wider than the back tires when plowing. The unit has been performing well since 98. 5 years back we noticed stress cracks in the loader towers and arms. We figured this caused by the heavy bucket and extended "bucket edge on the ground plowing" Accepted this as normal maint considering the use. The towers where replaced and the loader frame has been 90% plated out with 1/4 steel, accept the lower arms after the cross brace. This added maybe 200 lbs to the weight on the front axel and drives. Then the unit ran nice until last spring when this tractor bent a steering rod. We figured the operator pressed the wheel against something hidden in a snow bank while turning left. A new rod was 2 weeks out. A complete cylinder could be had over night, for 800.00. We purchased the cylinder and put the unit back into service. 10 hours later the tractor broke the right front drive. The casting of the drive broke in the center, fell away from the axel. the only thing holding the wheel was the steering cylinder. Not an accident. the wheel and bottom of the final drive fell off as the operator was pulling out of a driveway. he can't associate the break with anything he did different.

The operator has plowed these drives with this tractor for 8 seasons.

We were able to find a used drive on line. Replaced all bearings and seals. Heated and straighten the cylinder rod (from the new cylinder) that was bent when the drive fell away. Straightening the rod worked well enough that we also straighten the original cylinder rod to have as a spare. Used the tractor maybe 10 hrs this summer with a grade blade on the 3 point hitch. Durring the summer we take the snow bucket off an use the smaller stock bucket. First snow storm this year on Thanksgiving. The operator calls says the steering wheel turns but the wheels don't. Hauled back to our garage. We find that the nut is snapped off the bottom of the rod. The rod is bent. The nut is still jammed in the bottom of the cylinder. We now put the original cylinder, that we repaired as a spare last spring, on the tractor. plowed snow for 4 hrs. The rod is bent again. Local tractor guy says it is operator error and the loader frame bucket is to heavy for the unit. Yes, the bucket and plated frame are heavy for the unit however it has been running fine since 98. We are careful picking up heavy loads and pushing against solid banks, and the same operator in the same accounts for 8 years. One thing that has changed is we moved the steering stop out to prevent sharp left turns. This is a bolt on the right drive that hits the steering cross arm. We moved the bolt a little after the first original rod bent in an effort to prevent the operator from turning sharp to the left. The wheels will turn almost 90 if you keep turning the steering. After the drive broke in 1/2 we adjusted the stop bolts again. This last time, before the 4 hr bend, 1 1/2" was added to the left turn stop bolt. Another local equipment guy suggested that the rods are bending because the stop bolts are limiting the stroke. Ok. I can reason that except why did the original rod bend? Perhaps worn pins, bushings, and ball joints along with 15 years of stress on the rod contributed to the original bend. A new rod assembly, pins, bushings, and ball joints have been ordered from Mesnick's. My time and $ with Just Answer is an effort not to have another 4 hr. reoccurance. Perhaps you have knowledge on how to remove the nut from the bottom of the cylinder. Help if you can. Sorry about the delay to answer. It snowed yesterday. Thanks Ray

Mechanic: Curtis B., Technician replied 7 years ago

We don't get a lot of snow in Texas. But I see no difference than using in a loading operation. I assume you have tried to bump the piston out of the barrel. Next , if piston has open hole, make a long bar with a small lip on it, slip through the inner hole, and catch lip on piston and us a slide hammer to bring piston put. It looks to me that you have had only a single failure, the original one ,where rod bent. Likely caused by steering stop being out of adjustment. The second , was caused by wheel in hole, not really a cylinder failure, and same with the last one! From my experience , as long as the cylinder does not over extend, the rod will not bend. The stops need to be adjusted so the cylinder does not over extend, and be sure that the axle is not moving, letting the cylinder rod bend! As long as the cylinder rod is kept straight it will not bend and fail. In my area, we have hydraulic shop that can make new rods, or any part of a cylinder, and I find that there are half the price of a new rod or cylinder!

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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

Hi Cutis; The rod is out of the cylinder. It's the bolt that held the bottom packing that is stuck. The rod broke where the threads start. So the bolt filled with the piece of the rod that was threaded is stuck at the bottom of the cylinder. We will probally figure a way to get the bolt out. As the newer steering cylinder, with the bolt stuck, is slightly different from the original. Both from New Holland, must of been updated. And the new rod will be the updated model. I notice that the bottom of the original cylinder rod, the last one in, is beat up. Looks as if it was bottoming in the cylinder? Would this cause a rod to bend? Or. A bolt to break from the bottom of a rod? Another issue is the possible loosness of the front axel? We have never considered nor inspected for this. This is a*****unit. Seems bolted up, however pivots in the middle. Worn bushings or bearings? What would be the signs of a loose axle. I appreciate your input; Ray

Mechanic: Curtis B., Technician replied 7 years ago
The rod typically bottom in the cylinder, and causes no problem with that. Axle can move to far, throwing the cylinder into a bind, this would cause cylinder rod to bend and break. Cylinder rod pulling off the piston end is typical of the rod traveling too far. You see it regularly on skid steer loader bucket cylinders, where the operator is grading with bucket and it catches obstruction and lets rods extend to far, rips the rods right out, leaving piston and nut in cylinder! You just have to work the front of tractor up and down with loader , and watch the axle to see if it has excessive play.
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

Thanks Curtis; I know that we will figure this out. Thanks for your answer, it was worth the 57.00 to have your input. I am satisfied.

Ray

Mechanic: Curtis B., Technician replied 7 years ago
If you are satisfied. please rate and accept , that will close the question. Thanks
Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Agriculture and Farm Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 43,590
Experience: Technican turned service manager on multiple lines of equipment and rental equipment.
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