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vwnewton, VW Owner,ASE Master and L1 Advanced
Category: VW
Satisfied Customers: 307
Experience:  25 years of VW obsession turned into a job, last 15 years as a VW Tech.
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I have an 04 jetta bew. cranks and then fires second then

Customer Question

I have an 04 jetta bew. cranks and then fires for a second then dies. will only run on starting fluid. has new lift pump fuel filter and tandom pump. timing marks are on. has good compression. have p0321. crank sensor is new. shows rpm signal when cranking. glow plug light comes on. anyone have any ideas?
Submitted: 9 months ago.
Category: VW
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Hello I'm Wolfgang. I do need a vin# ***** Second what scan tool are you using? Make and model. Timing marks ???? What did you reference the marks to? Was a timing belt replaced recently? Thanks

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Hi Wolfgang I'm Carl. 3VWSR69M64M068214. I'm using a snap on solus edge. I have double checked the timing marks. Yes i just replaced the t-belt ,the camshaft, did a valve job, and re-sealed the injectors. i attached some pics of my timing marks. i have fuel pressure at the tandem pump, which is also brand new.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

The bottom crank tool what is the tool # *****? Also the pic does show that it is not fitting correctly. There are 2 different tools to lock the crank so to make sure that is the correct one. Thanks

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
there is no # ***** the tool. I agree it wasn't sitting flush. I rocked the crank back and fourth and it sat flush. the cam marks are still the same. the pointer is in between the tabs on the gear and I can fit the dowl pin in the hole. here are some pics. also yes I do have the other crank tool but I don't think that's the right one because the arrows don't line up.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Going through the cylinder head rebuild. How did you adjust the lash on the injectors. How was the camshaft ? Was it flat and the lifters was concaved? I want to make sure of the basics. Do you have a vag com? Thanks

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I turned the crank until the exhaust lobe was up and then I screwed down the adjuster and backed off 180. Same way a lot of people do it. The cam was very worn and 3 or 4 of the lifters were broken . No I don't have vag com .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

so a new cam and lifters was installed?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

ok is the crank sensor from the vw dealer or aftermarket?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
From the dealer .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Engine Speed (RPM) Sensor -G28- electrical harness connector terminalsDiesel Direct Fuel Injection (DFI) Engine Control Module (ECM) -J248- electrical harness connector T121 terminals

1 - 102 ecu

2 - 110 ecu

3 Ground (GND)

you need to do a resistance check from the crank sensor to the ecm make sure that it is less than 1.5 ohm resistance

then make sure that there is no shorts from pin 1 to pin 2 of the crank sensor with the ecu is disconnected.

let me know

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ok I can do that . Do you think if there was a problem on the crank sensor circuit that it wouldn't be showing an rpm signal ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

yes the code is for implausible signal so the wiring needs to be checked for integrity.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
It appears the pins on the ecu only go up to 94. I realize I'm checking the connector side. But here's a pic of the pins on the ecu.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I don't have any short between 1 and 2. I do have continuity between pins 2 and 3. I found where the brown wire goes to the ECU . That wire is good . But I can't find where the wires on pins 2 and 3 connect to the ECU. Also I do know my horn relay is bad I don't know if that is on the same circuit .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

ok pin 3 is your shielded ground to prevent rfi. pin 1 goes to pin 58 of the 60 pin connector and pin 2 to pin 43 of the 60 pin connector so 2 and 3 will have continuity but 1 will not have continuity with 2 and 3 . sorry info wrong on vw end!!

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ok wires 1 and 2 test good with the ecu unplugged. Wire 3 has no continuity to ground unplugged . Plugged into the ecu all 3 wires have continuity to ground and to each other .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Just need to check unplugged. Does 2-3 with Ecu unplugged has less than 1.5 ohms resistance ?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
they have almost zero.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Wait never mind I believe it was a half ohm
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

ok that means the wiring is ok . next is a visual of the tooth wheel make sure that there is no debris or runout of the wheel itself

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ok I guess the best way to look is through the crank sensor hole? So you think there is definitely a crank sensor related problem and it isn't just throwing that code because the car isn't starting starting ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

yes correct.

when you spray wd 40 in the intake will then the car run and stay running?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

ok vag com is needed . what scan tool you have? i need to see what the ecu seeing on timing

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
It's a snap on solus edge
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

does it have euro loaded?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I can get a data list .. I'm not sure if it shows torsion values is that what you need to see ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

i need you from the opening screen select volkswagen then expert mode and then select 01 engine module and then while running select 08 read measure value blocks and then 004 and give me the readings!!

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ok I will get on it thanks . It is an aftermarket timing belt but the marks are on .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

i understand that but the upper gear is adjustable so need to see what is the timing!!

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Oh ok so the even though the arrow is in between the two tabs it still might need tweaked just a little?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

maybe so !!!

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Ok I was only able to get it to run for 4 or 5 seconds at a time and the readings didn't seem to change at any point. Here a pic. Also I don't know if it matters but I was only able to get it to run on starting fluid not WD-40 . I did wipe some debris off the crank sensor but it didn't change anything. I did not see any damage or debris's on the reluctor wheel .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Do you have fuel at the pump. Do you know that you have 2 pumps one in the tank. Thst is a transfer pump. This is sounding more like a fuel issue. Disconnect the feed line to the tandem pump and direct wire the tank fuel pump the outer 2 terminals. Note look at the connector the brown wire is ground. Do you have fuel transfer?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
the lift pump ,fuel filter , and tandem pump are brand new. I have pressure at the tandem pump it sprays out when I loosen the clamp. So the data list looked ok or could you tell ? Would the injectors necessarily set a code if they were bad ? Is there a good way to tell if I'm loosing fuel pressure past the injector seals ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Is the glow plugs wet?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
They are dry as a bone
Customer: replied 9 months ago.
If it were a carbon build up problem I would be able to see the clog thru the ASV right ?or is there a better spot to look
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

Did you reuse the injector harness. Or new one?

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
I reused it . I tested all the wires they all have continuity . i think they were all a half ohm
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 9 months ago.

It's hard now because the valve cover is on. I have seen the harness gets crossed and causes the injectors not to fire and scrambles the Ecu.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Well I checked the injector harness and all the wires to the ecu . They all had under a half ohm and no contuity to each other . Any other ideas or is it time to give up on this one ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

hey can you get a pic of the cam end with the pin in when you have the timing belt gear off on tdc? i hate for you to do that but need to check the basics!!

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
you want me to take the cam gear off ? The arrow is dead center in between the tabs and so is the lock pin hole
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

Do not take the center bolt out just the 3 and take that tooth gear off. But make sure crank set and pin in the top

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Well the marks are dead on so I don't think I'm going to pull the belt back off. It does look like there is some fuel getting into the oil . Is there a wAy to tell if I'm loosing fuel pressure past the injectors? Also have you seen that tsb where you add a ground to the crank sensor circuit and reflash the Ecm ?
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

No tsb on that

There is a pressure port on the tandem pump. Fuel pressure must hold 10 bar when off

Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

I thought you will post a pic with the gear off

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I apoligize I just don't see why I should take the gear off when my marks are perfect .
So if the fuel pressure is low then it's safe to say there is a problem with the injector seals since my tandem pump is new? Also thank you for your patience
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

this is why because the cam can be out of phase. it can be timed at 3 places.

as you can see there are 3 slots on the cam and i have seen it where the cam is placed wrong position

pic to demonstrate

Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

on the diesel injector there is 2 orings and thd copper crush washer . maybe the orings got chaffed causing leak

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Got it well my notch on the cam is at the top . It's pointing straight up . The cam can only go onto the gear one way correct ?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I do think it's possible the orings could have been chafed . So if the fuel pressure is low at the port with the engine off then that's probably the problem is say
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

are the glow plugs wet?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
They do get a little wet when it doesn't fire . Either that or it will run for 2-3 seconds and die .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

Is there any flashing yellow light in the dash that has a car with key? Or even when the car is turned on does that light come on?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
No the immobilizer light does not come on . It does work In bulb check . I've already tried disconnecting the battery and touching the cables together
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

did you transfer the woodruff key from the old cam to the new one?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I can't remember but I don't think I would have missed something like that. I'm pretty sure my marks would be off if that thing was walking around.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Well I checked the fuel pressure while I'm cranking it will go up to 150 psi which is the max on my gauge . After I shut it off it will sit around 85 psi .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

please see pic is the cam gear at tdc like that one in the pic?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
it's exactly like that .
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 8 months ago.

ok place pin in cam gear top make sure that the pin bottoms out . then loosen the 3 bolts and then rotate smidge the cam gear ccw . then retry to start!!

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Ok I loosend the 3 bolts . Rotated the cam a smigde ccw, tried it, another smigde , and another . Still just runs and dies . Now the arrow is pointing right at the top of the bottom tab .
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
do you still think it's the timing Wolfgang

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