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I have a 1987 16v GTI with CIS-E injection and about 200,000 on the broken clock. I was crusing along at about 50 when the engine lost all power , it came back in short blips with throttle juggling but would not restart at the light. It would idle but not drive . I immediatly replaced the fuel filter to no avail . Any ideas PLEASE . Jim XXXXXX
Country: United StatesMake: VolkswagenModel: Golf GTI 16-ValveYear: 1987Engine: 1780 cc Already Tried: fuel filter
Hi, my name is XXXXX XXXXX X am at your service to assist with your VW problems. Welcome to Just Answer.When you try to start the car now after it has cooled off, does it start easily and idle smoothly?I am just trying to understand more about what might be the cause as there can be several things causing this kind of behavior. Have you kept the servicing up to date? Many times I have come across this and then find that the cam belt has been forgotten. This is the first thing to be checked.I will wait for your reply to my questions and then we can take the matter further.Regards, Martin.
Recently replaced timing belt.
It won't fire at all since the fuel filter was replaced. It does not look like air , as fuel sprays out of disributer when banjo is loosened .
I am not sure if I hit the send button ,so I will resend.
The timing belt was replaced about 2000 miles ago . Preventative maintenance.
The engine won't fire at all since the fuel filter change . I don't think it is trapped air as fuel sprays with great force when the distributer banjo is loosened.
Jim
Hi,Thank you for the information about the timing belt. I trust that we can therefore eliminate that as a problem.The fact that the fuel is spraying when you open the banjo on the fuel distributor is a sign that the fuel pump is delivering sufficient fuel pressure.My next suggestion would be to check for proper spark. Pull one of the spark plug leads, insert a known working spark plug into the lead, earth it against the engine, have someone crank the car while you observe the spark. There should be a strong yellow spark jumping the contacts. If this is not the case there might be a problem with the coil, the Hall sender unit or the TCI-H switch unit. To test the coil:Use a multi meter, set to volts, with the red lead on terminal #15 and the black lead earthed to the body, the reading should be battery voltage with the ignition switched to the "on" position. If this is not the case inspect the fuse. (I will confirm which number it is.) If that checks alright disconnect the multi meter and the wiring and the high tension lead from the coil. Set the multi meter to ohms, connect it between terminals #1 and #15, there should be a reading of 1.5 ohms. If this is not the case replace the coil. If that tests alright then connect the multi meter, still set to ohms, between terminal #1 and the high tension lead outlet. The reading should be 7.7 Kohms. If this is not the case replace the coil. If this all tests alright proceed to the next test.To test the TCI-H switch unit:Remove the plastic cover on the plenum. You will find a small black unit on the right hand side. Disconnect the multi plug from the small black switch unit. Connect the multi meter, set to volts, between terminals #4 and #2, with the positive lead into #4. Switch on the ignition switch and you should read battery voltage on the multi meter. If this is not the case inspect the engine control fuse. If this tests alright, remove the multi meter and replace the plug onto the small switch unit. Next, pull the multi plug from the distributor. Now connect the multi meter, set to volts, between terminals #1 and #15 on the ignition coil. Have someone assist you by switching on the ignition switch while you observe the volt reading on the multi meter. It should read 2 volts dropping off to 0 between 1 and 2 seconds. If this is not case replace the TCI-H switch unit. If this unit tests fine switch off the ignition and proceed to the next test.To test the Hall sender:Pull the high tension lead from the distributor cap and earth it to the body or engine. (The lead in the center of the distributor cap.) Now pull back the rubber cap from the wiring on the TCI-H unit. Connect a multi meter, set to volts, between terminals #6 and #3. Switch on the ignition switch, turn the engine by hand using a spanner on the crank shaft pulley, the volt reading should fluctuate between 0 and 2 volts as you turn the engine. If this is not the case replace the Hall sender inside the distributor. (If you have trouble finding a loose Hall sender you can replace the whole distributor with a new one)Your solution should be amongst all this but, should you require further assistance I am at your service.Regards, Martin.
Big fat sparks at the distributer center lead.
Very litltle fuel leakage when individual nozzle spray injector banjo is loosened.
It seams like no fuel is getting to the nozzles .
Hi Jim,Apologies for the delay in answering, our Internet was offline. Anyway, it seems as if the problem could lie with your fuel supply.Let us see whether the car will start when you help it along manually by lifting the air flow sensor plate to give it more fuel. To get to the air flow sensor plate undo the air cleaner box and next to the fuel distributor there is a large plate bolted onto an arm. Lift this plate slightly but be very careful as it is very delicate. Have someone crank the car while you are lifting this plate. The car should start easily now. If it does not start the fuel pump might be at fault, as it is probably not delivering 2 bar fuel pressure. To test this you will have to have a pressure meter with all the special fittings to install it, while you crank the engine in order to obtain a 2 bar pressure reading on the meter. There is not really any other way of ascertaining the correct pressure without this testing device, unless you just go for fitting a new fuel pump.If the car starts when doing this test inspect for all possible vacuum leaks on the intake manifold, including all the rubber pipes, big and small. Even the vacuum dash pot as they sometimes also become faulty and cause a problem.If you still have not found the fault after these tests please let me know and we can go even further.Regards, Martin.
I tried starting with the metering plate held up, not a peep.
We checked the resistance on the diferential pressure regulator . 19 ohms
the voltage when disconnected is 8volts, but drops to .4v when connected and zero m/amp.
,
PS it started breifly with either
Checked all the sensors to the control module per Haynes, and the all checked good. I susspect the controle module is bad ?
Hi Jim,The fact that you say the car started briefly (with ether?) signifies that all the ignition system is functioning correctly. Before you go to the expense of buying the computer module take out one of the fuel injectors and check the fuel spray pattern. Disconnect the pipe from the injector by retaining the injector with a spanner and slackening off the pipe with another spanner. What I usually do is install a nut onto the injector and then I clamp a vice grip onto that nut and pull out the injector. It comes out with some difficulty as there is an o-ring retaining it but it will come out. Refit the injector to the pipe. Have a bucket ready to catch the fuel. Have someone assist you by cranking the car while you observe the spray pattern. It should spray a strong, mist-like spray in a flat pattern. If this is not the case replace all the fuel injectors.My reasoning is, if the control module is bad, the car will not start, whatsoever, even if you spray ether. That is why I say the problem lies with the fuel injection system. Please let me know how you fare.Regards, Martin.
Martin,
I have not pulled an injector yet ,but as I wrote before I did loosen the feed to the nozzle and cranked. Almost no fuel came out.
and there is no voltage at the Differential Pressure Regulator .
How does that thing work ??? and could it be THE problem ? [ Module]
Boy, those modules are not cheap !
If I got a junk yard unit and it still didn't start I would still be non the wiser .
Thanks , Jim
I put in a new control module and it still wont fire.
Checked the voltage to the diferential pressure regulator and got .5 volt with ignition on and 1 volt while cranking . I still dont understand how it works ?
Again I checked the nozzle flow and there is no fuel coming out of the distributer .
Hi,I’m a moderator for this topic. Your Professional has opted out and I wonder whether you’re still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find another Professional to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!
I still need help . We just can't get fuel flow to the injectors ! Have you read all my responses ?
I thought you handed me to a new person ,that would be able to help . I still can't get it to start . No sighn of fuel to the injectors .
Thank you for your patience, your business is very important to us, we are waiting on the Professional with the right expertise to come online. Feel free to let us know if you would like us to continue searching for an Professional or if you would like us to close your question. Thank you for your understanding!
I still need to resolve the problem . Still no fuel to the injectors .
We put 9volts to the Differential Pressure Regulator . I could hear it faintly click ,but it still would not start .
Hello Jim and Welcome! I'm Billy and i will assist you with your inquiry.Feel free to ask if any further info is needed.Have you tried removing the fuel line coming from the filter to the fuel distributor? and does it have fuel (when ignition is turned on)? make sure you put the line to an empty container so you do not get fuel allover.Having removed this line, on some models, and right where the line goes to the distributor, there is a small strainer that could be clogged, causing this, so check and clean.Regards,Billy
Small filter is clean . No start.
Also pressure at both ports of the diaphragm regulator .
Hello Jim!In my opinion, having good pressure on the diaphragm, and since you already tried replacing the hydraulic pressure regulator (which opens and closes, decreasing and increasing the pressure on the lower side of the diaphragm). And since the wiring seems good (having voltage on the regulator, if not the control module requires replacing). And since you have spark (as i read in your early replies). And since you already replaced the timing belt, I would next check the engine compression pressure on all four cylinders. And if you have good compression pressure on all four, i would next get to the fuel distributor itself (replace). AS this is the only link left in the chain. You can check for cheap used parts at car-part.comRegards,Billy
Billy,
I never replaced the Differential Pressure Regulator . We checked the voltage to it and got 8 volts, but only .5V when conected ,rising to 1v while
cranking, than slowly falling back to .5 in about 20 seconds.
I got another used module and get the same readings.
Should I replace the D.P.Regulator Before replacing the whole distributor ?
Hello again,My apologies fro the delay.IF the pressure regulator was not replaced, you should try and replace that first. As this could cause this problem if it is stuck closed, meaning that the distributor will no longer be able to send fuel to the injectors.Regards,Billy
VW wanted $ 600 for a regulator ! The only one I could find at the salvage yard was off a 5 cylinder . It looked identical so I reset the adjustment to the same number of turns but have not chance to try it. ($10)
It has the same 19-20 ohms as the original.
Hello again,You should check the part number to ensure that it would work fine on your model.Either way try it and get back to me with your findings, or whether further info or details are needed.Regards,Billy
Put it all back together with 5 cylinder Pressure Controler. Zero.
Lots of pressure at the cold start solenoid .
None at the injectors ?
looked at the paddle and plunger workings and all LOOKED ok.
How does the regulator work ? How could it totaly stop the fuel ?
Jim.
Hello Jim,The regulator has a flap controlled by the control module (computer). This flap would open or close further a restriction for the fuel going to the distributor. If this flap is open fully, then the distributor will get very high pressure in the lower chambers, the diaphragm between the chambers will no longer open, as when this diaphragm opens fuel gets to the injectors.Regards,Billy