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Wolfgang
Wolfgang, VW Master Technician
Category: VW
Satisfied Customers: 3249
Experience:  Senior VW Master Tech 15 yrs
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02 GTI 1.8 Turbo Overheat and loss of Turbo .

Customer Question



Here is a question on my sons 02 GTI 1.8 turbo. It has AC and a 5 speed.
The car seems to overheat. It used to run rock steady at 190 no matter what the temp outside. He lives in FLA and sees temps over 100 quite often. He started noticing it was running up past the 190 mark by 1 and sometimes 2 lines on the temp meter on his way home for about the last two weeks. The car has 155K on it and runs like a top but when it gets a little over 190 on the meter, he has a pretty healthy loss of power and cant hear the turbo anymore. We also noticed that unless the AC is on the fans dont run no matter how hot the engine gets. He gets steam from the overflow at times as well. One tech had me check the flow of coolant into the tank from the small hose and I confirmed it was flowing so he believed the pump is working although I know the VW pumps can fail and have the impeller spin on the shaft. He is replacing the pump, timing belt, serpentine belt and tensioner this weekend just to take those things off the list of issues. Thats the background, here are my questions.

1. Why the overheat?
2. Why the loss of power and seemingly no turbo pressure when it gets over 190. Is there a temp cut off for turbo pressure?
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: VW
Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
I'm assuming the oil level and pressure is fine...
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

The oil level is good and he doesnt have a meter in the car for pressure but I would assume if the pressure is low he would get a light instead? He purchased the car about a year ago and put the last 12K on it. In that time its had regular oil changes but we cant speak of what happened before that. I can say it idles well and runs strong until the meter goes to the first line past 190. My 2.0 liter 00 Golf runs at 190 100% of the time after warm up and never goes over that but I am in Northern NH. Different weather. When he was in VA the temp meter never went over 190, this just started in the last two weeks. hes been driving it in FLA for about 2.5 months now.

Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
The fans would be my first suspect. I believe only one fan comes on with the AC.
I've never heard of a relay cut off for the turbo, it could be just heat resistance.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

I will have him check to see if when he turns on the A/C both fans come on or if just one comes on. We know that with no A/C on the fans dont operate. What would the cause be? Sensor? Relay? Fuse?

 

What would be the reason for the Turbo not coming on? I would assume some aspect of turbo operation is controlled by the ECU / ECM? Is there a temp related sensor that could cause the ECU to delay or prevent the turbo from operating in an "overheat" situation? Is the wate gate electronically controlled so that the boost could be limited in an overheat situation by the ECU / ECM?

 

 

 

Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
The fan could not work because of the motor itself or the temperature relay.
Usuallly the turbo stops working because of the lack of oil supply. The wastegate is activated by the pressure to keep the turbo from spining too fast.


Removal & Installation



Turbochargers are subject to enormous amounts of heat and friction due to the speeds at which they operate. On some models the turbine shaft can rotate at speeds up to 70,000 rpm. Most turbo's are cooled and lubricated by a oil supply line from the vehicles engine that feeds the unit a fresh stream of filtered oil. There is also a return line back to the oil pan. The oil in this feed line is the life line of the turbocharger. Its like blood is to a human being, without it, the turbo will cease to operate. This is just another example of why it is important that you change the oil at the manufacturers recommended intervals. If sludge formed in these lines and reduced the flow, the turbocharger unit would wear out very rapidly.


NOTE
If the turbo charger is being replaced, the oil lines going to and from it must be removed and cleaned. If cleaning the lines is not enough, then they must be replaced. Also if the turbocharger is being replaced due to excessive exhaust smoke, there may still be some oil in the exhaust system once the new turbo has been installed. You may have to drive the vehicle for a few miles before this smoke clears.

  1. Disconnect the negative battery cable. If equipped with an automatic transaxle, remove the starter.
  2. Remove the nuts to disconnect the exhaust outlet pipe from the turbocharger outlet. If it's necessary to separate the exhaust pipe from the outlet pipe, follow the procedure is described in exhaust manifold removal for gasoline engines before removing the outlet pipe.
  3. Clean the oil supply fitting on the top of the turbocharger and remove the supply line and bracket.
  4. Remove the inlet air duct.
  5. Under the vehicle, remove the oil return line and the turbocharger mounting bracket.
  6. Still underneath, remove the turbo-to-manifold bolts and lift the turbocharger out from the top. The exhaust manifold can be removed after removing the EGR valve.

To install:

  1. If removed, install the exhaust manifold with a new gasket and torque the bolts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
  2. Use a new gasket and fit the turbocharger to the manifold. Coat the bolt threads with anti-seize and torque the turbocharger bolts to 33 ft. lbs. (45 Nm) and the bracket nuts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
  3. Use a new gasket and connect the oil return line. Torque the bolts to 22 ft. lbs. (30 Nm).
  4. Use a new gasket and connect the outlet pipe. Torque the nuts to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
  5. Connect the oil supply line, install the EGR valve.

  1. Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions section.
  2. Remove or disconnect:

    Negative battery cable.
    Exhaust pipe from the turbocharger outlet.
    Oil supply line and bracket, after cleaning the oil supply fitting on the top of the turbocharger.
    Inlet air hose.
    Oil return line and the turbocharger mounting bracket.
    Turbo-to-manifold bolts. Lift the turbocharger out from the top.


To install:

  1. Installation is the reverse of removal. Before installing the oil supply line, fill the connection on the turbocharger with engine oil.
  2. Tighten the following:

    Turbocharger-to-exhaust manifold: 33 ft. lbs. (45 Nm)
    Mounting bracket nuts: 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
    Turbocharger outlet nuts: 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
    Oil return line: 22 ft. lbs. (30 Nm)



  3. Click image to see an enlarged view

    Fig. Exploded view of the intake and exhaust manifold, turbocharger and related components-1.9L (AHH) engine



    Click image to see an enlarged view

    Fig. Exploded view of the intake and exhaust manifold, turbocharger and related components-1.9L (AAA) engine



    Click image to see an enlarged view

    Fig. Exploded view of the intake and exhaust manifold, turbocharger and related components-1.9L (ALH) engine


1.8L Engine
  1. Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions section.
  2. Remove or disconnect:

    Negative battery cable
    Engine undercover, and unbolt the air conditioning compressor
    Turbocharger support bracket
    Oil return line at the turbocharger
    Air hoses from the turbocharger
    Oil feed line at the turbocharger
    Hose for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm
    Bracket for the coolant supply line at the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm, and using Clamp 3094 or equivalent, pinch off the coolant supply hose
    Intake air duct between the cowl and the air cleaner housing
    Air cleaner housing cover

  3. Label and detach the following lines and electrical connectors:

    Wastegate bypass regulator valve
    EVAP canister purge regulator valve
    Power outage stage
    MAF sensor

  4. Remove or disconnect:

    Air cleaner housing and the engine cover
    Crankcase breather hose at the valve cover
    Oil supply line at the turbocharger
    Heat shield, and sleeve from the coolant return hose, and using Clamp 3094 or equivalent, pinch off the coolant return hose, then remove the hose.



WARNING
The exhaust flexpipe may be damaged if bent more than 10 degrees.



TWC from the turbocharger
Turbocharger from the exhaust manifold
Coolant supply banjo fitting
Turbocharger

To install:



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. exploded view of the turbocharger and related components-1.8L engine (AEB/ATW/AWV)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the hoses related to the turbocharger-1.8L engine (AEB/ATW/AWV)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. exploded view of the turbocharger and related components-1.8L engine (AWP/AWW)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the hoses related to the turbocharger-1.8L engine (AWP/AWW)

  1. Install or connect:

    Turbocharger
    Coolant supply banjo fitting and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
    Turbocharger to the exhaust manifold, using new gaskets. Mounting bolts, coating the bolts with Hot Bolt Paste G 052 112 A3 (or equivalent): 26 ft. lbs. (35 Nm). Turbocharger support bracket mounting bolts: 33 ft. lbs. (45 Nm).
    TWC to the turbo
    Coolant supply hose
    Sleeve and heat shield to the return hose
    Oil return hose

  2. Add oil to the turbocharger through the oil feed line.
  3. Connect:

    Oil supply line to the turbocharger and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
    Crankcase breather, and install the engine cover and air cleaner housing.

  4. Attach the following lines and electrical connectors:

    MAF sensor
    Power outage stage
    Wastegate bypass regulator valve

  5. Install or connect:

    Hoses and brackets for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm.
    Air hoses to the air cleaner assembly and the turbo
    Air conditioning compressor and engine undercovers
    Coolant
    Negative battery cable

  6. Start the vehicle and check for leaks, then let the engine idle for approximately 1 minute without increasing the engine speed. This ensures adequate oil supply to the turbocharger.

  1. Disconnect the negative battery cable.
  2. Remove the engine undercover.
  3. Remove the air conditioning compressor mounting fasteners. Remove the compressor leaving the lines attached. Support the compressor such that the lines are not stretched or kinked.
  4. Unbolt the turbocharger support bracket.
  5. Disconnect the oil return line at the turbocharger.
  6. Remove the air hoses from the turbocharger.
  7. Disconnect the oil feed line at the turbocharger.
  8. Disconnect the hose for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm.
  9. Unbolt the bracket for the coolant supply line at the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm.
  10. Using clamp Tool No. 3094, or equivalent, pinch off the coolant supply hose.
  11. Remove the intake air duct between the cowl and the air cleaner housing.
  12. Remove the air cleaner housing cover.
  13. Label and detach the following lines and electrical connectors:


  14. Wastegate bypass regulator valve
    Evaporative Emission (EVAP) canister purge regulator valve
    Power outage stage
    Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor

  15. Remove the air cleaner housing and the engine cover.
  16. Disconnect the crankcase breather hose at the valve cover.
  17. Disconnect the oil supply line at the turbocharger.
  18. Remove the heat shield, and sleeve from the coolant return hose.
  19. Using clamp Tool No. 3094, or equivalent, pinch off the coolant return hose, then remove.


WARNING
The exhaust flexpipe may be damaged if bent more than 10°.

  1. Disconnect the Three Way Catalytic Converter (TWC) from the turbo.
  2. Unbolt the turbo from the exhaust manifold.
  3. Move the turbo aside to disconnect the coolant supply banjo fitting.
  4. Remove the turbo.



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. exploded view of the turbocharger and related components-1.8L Engine



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the vacuum hoses related to the turbocharger-1.8L Engine



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. The turbo-charger as viewed from the engine compartment

To install:

  1. Install the turbo, coating the fasteners with Hot Bolt Paste, G 052 112 A3 or equivalent.
  2. Connect the coolant supply banjo fitting and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
  3. Using new gaskets, install the turbocharger to the exhaust manifold, coat the bolts with Hot Bolt Paste, then tighten the mounting bolts to 26 ft. lbs. (35 Nm). Tighten the turbo support bracket mounting bolts to 33 ft. lbs. (45 Nm).
  4. Attach the TWC converter to the turbo.
  5. Connect the coolant supply hose.
  6. Install the sleeve and heat shield to the return hose.
  7. Connect the oil return hose.
  8. Make sure the openings are clear and clean. Add fresh engine oil to the turbo through the oil feed line.
  9. Connect the oil supply line to the turbo and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
  10. Connect the crankcase breather, then install the engine cover and air cleaner housing.
  11. Attach the following lines and electrical connectors:


  12. Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor
    Power outage stage
    Wastegate bypass regulator valve

  13. Connect the hoses and brackets for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm.
  14. Connect the air hoses to the air cleaner assembly and the turbo.
  15. Install the air conditioning compressor and engine undercovers.
  16. Refill the coolant system and bleed as necessary. For additional information, please refer to the following topic(s): General Information and Maintenance, Fluids and Lubricants.
  17. Check the oil level and top off as necessary.
  18. Connect the negative battery cable.
  19. Enter the radio security code.
  20. Start the vehicle and check for leaks, then let the engine idle for approximately 1 minute without increasing the engine speed. This ensures adequate oil supply to the turbo.

  1. Before servicing the vehicle, refer to the Precautions Section.
  2. Remove or disconnect:

    Negative battery cable
    Engine undercover, and unbolt the air conditioning compressor
    Turbocharger support bracket
    Oil return line at the turbocharger
    Air hoses from the turbocharger
    Oil feed line at the turbocharger
    Hose for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm
    Bracket for the coolant supply line at the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm, and using Clamp 3094 or equivalent, pinch off the coolant supply hose
    Intake air duct between the cowl and the air cleaner housing
    Air cleaner housing cover

  3. Label and detach the following lines and electrical connectors:

    Wastegate bypass regulator valve
    EVAP canister purge regulator valve
    Power outage stage
    MAF sensor

  4. Remove or disconnect:
    WARNING
    The exhaust flexpipe may be damaged if bent more than 10 degrees.



    Air cleaner housing and the engine cover
    Crankcase breather hose at the valve cover
    Oil supply line at the turbocharger
    Heat shield, and sleeve from the coolant return hose, and using Clamp 3094 or equivalent, pinch off the coolant return hose, then remove the hose.



    TWC from the turbocharger
    Turbocharger from the exhaust manifold
    Coolant supply banjo fitting
    Turbocharger


To install:

Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the turbocharger and related components-1.8L engine (AEB/ATW/AWV)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the hoses related to the turbocharger-1.8L engine (AEB/ATW/AWV)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the turbocharger and related components-1.8L engine (AWP/AWW)



Click image to see an enlarged view

Fig. Exploded view of the hoses related to the turbocharger-1.8L engine (AWP/AWW)

  1. Install or connect:

    Turbocharger
    Coolant supply banjo fitting and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm)
    Turbocharger to the exhaust manifold, using new gaskets. Mounting bolts, coating the bolts with Hot Bolt Paste G 052 112 A3 (or equivalent): 271 inch lbs. (35 Nm). Turbocharger support bracket mounting bolts: 33 ft. lbs. (45 Nm).
    TWC to the turbo
    Coolant supply hose
    Sleeve and heat shield to the return hose
    Oil return hose

  2. Add oil to the turbocharger through the oil feed line.
  3. Connect:

    Oil supply line to the turbocharger and tighten to 18 ft. lbs. (25 Nm).
    Crankcase breather, and install the engine cover and air cleaner housing.

  4. Attach the following lines and electrical connectors:

    MAF sensor
    Power outage stage
    Wastegate bypass regulator valve

  5. Install or connect:

    Hoses and brackets for the boost pressure regulation valve vacuum diaphragm.
    Air hoses to the air cleaner assembly and the turbo
    Air conditioning compressor and engine undercovers
    Coolant
    Negative battery cable

  6. Start the vehicle and check for leaks, then let the engine idle for approximately 1 minute without increasing the engine speed. This ensures adequate oil supply to the turbocharger.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

Wategate Bypass regulator valve. Is this component mechanical or electrical?

 

Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
It's an electrical valve that allows more exhaust to go through the tail pipe.
Actually it is connected to the ECU.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

So if the car overheats and the ECU /ECM says the car is too hot to boost this component could prevent the turbo from boosting manifold pressure to prevent damage to the engine??????

 

Do you know at what temp the the ECU / ECM may cut the turbo boost to protect the engine????

 

 

Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
The coolant temperature sensor would tell the ECM that the engine is running hot and open the wastegate valve. Not only oil but also coolant keeps the turbo cool.
It does make sense that not only does the wastegate keep the turbo from spinning to fast but to also keep the pressure low so the engine doesn't get hotter.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

Can you tell me what temperature the engines cooling system would reach for the ECU / ECM to start to limit Turbo boost. In our IHI systems we use in the snowmobile industry, a coolant temp of 215 would trigger the first reduction in boost output. I am looking for the number that occurs in a VW engine?

 

How many temp sensors are there? I am assuming two as we use two in our snowmobiles, one in the engine itself and one in the radiator lower half.

 

Sorry to be so detailed with my questions but I have been in service and repair for recreational motorsports for 23 years. I was the North American Technical Coordinator for one of the current ATV / Watercraft / Snowmobile manufactures in the midwest for many years. Its the way my brain works.......lol

 

Expert:  Peoples Car replied 5 years ago.
Let me open this question up to another expert. I"ve only heard of turbos quitting because of the bearings.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Thanks...... I will wait to see if anyone can answer.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 5 years ago.
ok this vehicle has a failsafe that if starting to overheat the boost is reduced. does this have a check engine light?

need to know!!!!!


please get back
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
No it does not have a check engine light on. My sons neighbor has him convinced that its the thermostat thats causing it to overheat. I told him that would be unlikely but not impossible.
Expert:  Wolfgang replied 5 years ago.
DID U HAVE THE ECU SCANNED IF NOT SCAN IT PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF ANY FAULTS. IF U CHANGE THE THERMOSTAT WHEN REMOVED CHECK W/ FINGER IF THE IMPELLER IS BROKEN W/P KNOWN OF BREAKING IF BROKEN REPLACE WATER PUMP AND TIMING BELT AND REPLACE COOLANT TEMP SENSOR (NEED TO BE GREEN IN COLOR FOR NEW ONE) THEN RECHECK 50/50 COOLANT AND WATER MIX.

AFTER THAT DOES THE COOLING FAN COMES ON WHEN A/C IS WORKING LET ME KNOW

THANKS

PLEASE PRESS THE GREEN ACCEPT BUTTON FOR THE INFORMATION EXCHANGED

Wolfgang, VW Master Technician
Category: VW
Satisfied Customers: 3249
Experience: Senior VW Master Tech 15 yrs
Wolfgang and 3 other VW Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

 

I wish I had talked to you from the begining. I CAN HAVE HIM CHECK THE IMPELLER OF THE WATER PUMP WITHOUT REMOVING IT? The other guy only had me check coolant flow into the tank at 2000 rpm.

 

 

1. No codes

2. Coolant is flowing into the tank at 2000 rpm through the small line

3. Fans come on when AC is turned on

4. Car has 50/50 mix dexcool in it as of about 6 months ago.

5 Coolant tank was replaced for a small crack in the bottom

6. Sensor is already the green sensor, I had him verify that

7. I dont know at what temp the fans are supposed to come on without the A/C.

 

The car has always run 190 steady on the meter like my 2.0 golf. This started about 2-3 weeks ago.

Expert:  Wolfgang replied 5 years ago.
210-215 DEG F FAN TURN ON

DEX COOL A NO-NO G12 VW COOLANT ONLY BUT THAT IS SECONDARY

THE SENSOR THERE IS A DATE ON THE SENSOR MUST BREATER THAN 15-06

LET ME KNOW ABOUT THE W/P


I CAN HELP

PLEASE PRESS THE GREEN ACCEPT BUTTON FOR INFORMATION EXCHANGED
BONUS GREATLY APPRECIATED


THANKS

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Wolfgang
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