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Enes
Enes, VOLVO Master Technician
Category: Volvo
Satisfied Customers: 4511
Experience:  15+YEARS WITH VOLVO AS THE MASTER VOLVO MECHANIC&Ase
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!989 Volvo 240DL - will not start - no spark - replaced crank

Customer Question

!989 Volvo 240DL - will not start - no spark - replaced crank speed sensor, coil and coil wire. Checked all fuses - all ok. No trouble codes revealed - shows codes 111 for fuel and ignition! Fuel pump relay clicks when ignition key turned to start. Please help!! Thanks for your consideration!
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Volvo
Expert:  Jim B replied 5 years ago.
Hi this is Jim

If you have good spark to the plugs Then.. add some propane tto the air inlet after removing the air filter. See it will start if so you need to see if you have any fuel pressure. There have been problems with the Computer not gounding the fuel pump relay. If so it will need to be replaced. I can give you the test procedure if needed. Jim
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
Jim - did you read my description, how can I have spark at the spark plugs if there is none at the coil which I stated is my problem? Please take the time to reread my request. By the way - the fuel pump relay does click when the ignition key is turned on. Again the current symptom is - no spark coming from the coil to the plugs( the coil is new). Reading web sites that address this problem suggest that the ignition module may be bad, do you agree that this IS the problem and if this is your learned opinion also - is there any way to test the component to determine if it indeed is good or bad? If you require more info please don't hesitate to ask. I need your help in repairing this car quickly and will appreciate your expert advice on what to repair or replace. Thanks for your attempt to help me.
Expert:  Jim B replied 5 years ago.
OK .. 1 1 1 is all pass. Sorry for not reading it correctly

Here is a test to check jpower stage.

Here is a diaghram ... You can go to the power stage to check . I have written some notes.
Pin 1 is Signal out to coil. this is also a dwell reading ..
Pin 2
PIn 3 is ground less than .05 volts Volt meter
Pin 4 is Is battery Voltage
Pin 5 is Signal in from PCM dwell reading or percent Need Dig Volt Ohm Meter or Led test lamp probe in pin 5
If you have good in put and out put. power's and grounds then the power stage is bad

I have seen them before with bad connections also.

There are 3 ignition systems on your year Volvo... this is the Rex ....If this does not look correct let me know.. Jim
Let me know you results
graphic
Expert:  Jim B replied 5 years ago.
One more diaghram for you. Kinda shows the flow of imput and output .. JIM graphic
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hi Jim,
I'm sorry it has taken me so long to communicate with you but I haven't been able to follow your help instruction until the past couple of days. I don't know if you are still willing to assist me - if you are here is some more current info.
I performed the tests you recommended to the best of my ability and the results are as you say they should be. The results of testing the negative side of the coil to ground with a test light shows the light not flashing (steady on) while cranking the engine. What does this result indicate? Do you have further trouble shooting instructions or does this info indicate what the problem is with my no spark/no start condition? Thank you for your patience and understanding in the delayed response from me. I need and appreciate your help.
ps: I see that my credit card has been billed for the amount I offered to pay for your help although I didn't authorize it yet - any idea how that might have happened?
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
Hi, I am willing to help.. I do not know how the credit card charge works. I have not received any payment until you accept. You might contact Just Answer to find out.

If the test light does not flash that means you are not getting a signal, from the power stage module. We need to test at the power stage and see if the signal from the crank sensor is coming in. I will check back and give you that info. Check pin 5 at power stage module for signal in. may be able to use test light to see if it "tiriggers." If so and you have power and ground at the PSM . then the module is bad.

Jim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the email. I have a question about the pin numbering sequence that we are referring to for testing the power stage. The pins on the power stage are numbered 1,2,3,4,5 from left to right - but on the wiring diagram the pins for the power stage are numbered 1,5,3,2,4 from left to right. The colors of the wires to the pins of the power stage are from left to right ( pin #1 - red/white, pin #2 - black, pin #3 - black, pin #4 - blue and pin #5 - white ) - please advise which pin sequence is the correct one to follow when testing. Sorry if I am frustrating you - just want to get it right. Thanks!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
The numbers are for the wiring diag. Check the pin numbers .. Power.. grounds, signal in from ECM and out to Ign neg side of coil..

Jim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Jim,
Re tested the module and connector - with the ignition key on there is power and ground at the power stage module. I tested pin 5 for an incoming signal with a test light with engine cranking and got nothing - the light did not light at all. I had already installed a new crank sensor before I initially contacted you ( I tell you this as a reminder ). Is there a logical next step?
Thanks for your help.
By the way - my name is Russ.
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
How many wires did your crank sensor have 2 or 3.. mounted in bell housing.?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Jim - the crank sensor has 3 - three- wires.

Thanks for your help!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
graphic
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
Sorry another test. Need to be sure crank signal , ac voltage, is getting to the electronic moudle ...
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hi Jim - I gained access to the ignition control unit and removed the connector to perform the tests you requested but in my ignorance have encountered a problem.
None of the pins are numbered on the unit or the plug. If you hold the plug vertically, with the cable facing downward, there are two vertical rows of pin location holes - 13 holes in the left vertical row and 12 in the right. The right row has pin connectors in holes 3,4,7 and 10 from the bottom or cable end. The left row has pin connectors in all of the holes but Hole #9. Can you help me identify the location of the pins that need testing - how are they numbered? Sorry to make this all the more difficult for you - I just can't make any correlation between the wiring diagram and the physical unit or plug. Thanks for your patience and assistance.
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
Look for Blue/ Yellow PIN # XXXXX
Red Yellow . PIN # XXXXX test for AC Voltage .
Pin # XXXXX is a white wire.
Pin # XXXXX yellow brn..

Can not find the connector right now but see if you can get your orentation from above pin numbers. Jim
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
I may have found the picture ...jim
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
graphic
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hi Jim,
I have completed 3 of the 4 tests you requested. They are as follows:
1. There is battery voltage with key on at pins #5 and #6
2. There is ground at pin #20
3. Voltage between pins #10 and #23 while cranking is 0.1 V AC not 0.5 V AC
4. Not sure how to measure square wave signal coming out of the control unit, what am I measuring for? Will an led test light do, do I look for AC or DC voltage with a meter? I assume that I will have to probe the wires themselves rather than a pin in the connector, is this correct? If so. please confirm that the wiring colors for pin #16 is green ? and pin #17 is yellow/green? I appreciate your instructions very much!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
The ac voltage is too low.. Is the sensor connetor clean and the ground tight.. bolt to bell housing? AC signals produce their own ac voltage.. What if you go to the connector , under hood and test it there. Is the voltage higher.. The sensor is a magnetic magnet. If you remove it and swipe a screw driver by it , it should produce voltage, ac .. A lab scope is required to see the square,,, but a a led light may be sensitive enough but that was the signal going to the power stage module. The way it works.. The ac voltage goes in to the unit and it coverts it to a square , digital , one leaving. I will check your other readings and get back to you .. Jim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Jim,
I checked the AC voltage at the crank sensor - it measures 0.1 V AC also, not the 0.4V minimum. It is a new sensor that I purchased from a company called eEuroparts on the internet. I installed it and I'm certain the bolt is tight. The sensor appears to be physically identical to the one I took out. All of the connectors look clean and in really good shape including the one on the crank speed sensor. I will get some cleaner and spray them this evening just to be certain - if you think it may be a good idea.
Thanks again for your kind assistance!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
Need to have higher ac voltage.... Check the signal near the new connector. Jim
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Jim - please explain "check the signal near the new connector". I did check the output signal for the crank speed sensor at the connector where the sensor's cable plugs into the harness - I checked it on the harness side of the connection, the wires coming out of the female side of the connector not the male plug on the sensors cable. If I am to measure the output of the sensor at the sensor's cable plug - do I measure between pins #1 and #2 with pin #3 connected to ground or is Pin #3 not necessary?
Thank you!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
graphicHook up is One probe on Blue - Yellow wire the other on the Red- Yellow Voltage set to ac .. if the voltage is less that .4 volts then the sensor is not working .. I know it is an easy installation. The flywheel has a notch cut out to break the signal. Here is a picture.



Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks Jim - I'll get back to you as soon as I can do the test. Probably won't be until tomorrow. Thanks for your patience!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
Not a problem. .wish I were there to help you.. JIM
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Jim - you are a very kind, patient and knowledgeable man. God knows that I wish you were here to help me too! At least your trouble shooting skills are here with me. God bless you!
Expert:  Jim B replied 4 years ago.
I will check back .. Thanks, Jim

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