UK Traffic Law
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Hi Thank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.
I know this isn’t going to be the answer you want to hear, and it’s certainly not what I want to tell you. However, I wish to be completely honest with you, so I feel obligated to not give you false hope.
I'm afraid there is no defence in the comments that you make.
Speeding is a crime like any other.
GATSO cameras are just points of enforcement and in law they can place them where ever they like and enforce using evidence gathered from them.
The ACPO guidelines do require a certain number of accidents before resources are utilised but they are just guidelines not law and half the constabularies ignore them.
You are trying to argue that this is about technical enforcement not road safety. Of course, you are absolutely right. Its no defence.
Ok Thats fine but dont they have to be clearly identifying the speed for that section of the road
You can write to them making representations but they will just summons you to cour.t
They do have to advertise the SPEED LIMIT.
But not the presence of a GATSO.
IS there not a requirement that puts the onus on the council to clearly identify cameras locations and any enforeable speed limit clearly
But if this is a 30 mph zone then
that is advertised by means of a regular pattern of street light.
Its a restricted road and so national speed limits apply without the need for any other signing.
There's no obligation to advertise a speed detection device.
But S85 RTA says that the authorities need to provide 'adequate guidance ' of the speed limit.
If this is a 30mph zone then its a restricted road which is covered by statute though.
That was my point because on this section of road there is more than one speed limit
There are 3 automatic speed limits in the UK - 30 mph for restricted, 60 mph for single lane carriageways that are not restricted and 70 mph for motorways.
There are some different limits for unusually weighted vehicles but standard cars need to comply with those limits.
Those limits are advertised by the geography and street furniture - e.g street lighting, absence of street lighting or a motorway.
If the authorities want to vary those limits they have to erect signs which is why you see repeater and introduction signs.
If you are saying the signing was confusing at the location then there is a defence in that but its been weakened by the case of Peake.
Basically Peake says that the inadequacy must be such that the reasonably observant motorist cannot tell upon normal inspection what speed is required of him.
You may be able to do that. Authorities don't always maintain signs.
I appreciate what you say...but if the speed limit changes along the same road and then they have new camera system placed across a set of lights which i have never seen before, is there not a legitimate defense in the fact that the change of speed should be properly and clearly notified especially as there is now a camera system installed to detect any violations.
But it is a higher test than people on sites like Pepipoo would have people believe.
The change in limit should be signing within the requirements of S85 RTA.
The question is whether they did or not. The test in Peake is much higher than the previous case law.
Ok so to have a chance of defending this notice I will send in my drivers details no problem but can i also put in a letter explaining that the speed change was not clearly notified? Also what else can i throw at them that MIGHT work or at least make them think twice about sending a summons out?
No, absolutely not.
Send in the S172 form properly completely on about day 21. Do not comment.
If you comment that will annoy them. They can be very childish about things like that.
Just send the S172 form in.
They will send you the fixed penalty offer.
If you want to contest this just ignore that.
If you use the time limits properly that should take you to about month 3 anyway. They only have 6 months to get this into court.
Half the time they forget to summons people and this speed is not huge comparable to the speed limit.
Personally I would never take the fixed penalty. You only get the same number of points at court and you have the chance of them forgetting to summons.
The financial penalties are a bit higher though.
Ok I will do as you advise.
anything else or other tips that may help me?
Come back if you want more guidance as the process goes on.
But just comply with the law and don't get into a debate with them.
Do I have to pay again?
In certain areas I would say there is about a 50% chance of them forgetting to summons.
No, once you've rated postively you can ask related follow ups.
The question won't close from your side.
OK thanks for your advice.
All the best.
Please remember to rate my answer.
Hi Sorry if I want to follow up with any more advice..how do i do it?