Re: Failure to comply with traffic signs (which incl a traffic light)(under s 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988)Re: Failure to stop when required to do so by a constable (under s163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988)This morning, whilst riding my bicycle to work, I was stopped by three police officers for allegedly committing the above offences.I did, in fact, fail to stop for the red light, but not intentionally. The alleged offence occurred immediately outside Liverpool Street Station on Bishopsgate. There were a number of pedestrians running out into the road trying to cross between traffic against the lights. My attention was focussed on the pedestrians, as pedestrians present as much of a hazard to cyclists as cyclists do to them. (I have been knocked off my bike twice by pedestrians running out into the road between traffic, not watching where they were going.) By the time I saw that the light had changed to red, I was already through it and it was too late to stop. So, I carried on......I heard a policeman (on foot) shout and saw him raise his arm as I flashed by, but thought he was simply pointing at the traffic light as if to say, “Hey, that was red!” I did not realise that I was being formally ordered to stop. (I have never been stopped by a policeman before.) I continued on my way to work. About three minutes later, I heard sirens behind me, but it did not occur to me that the sirens were for me! As soon as I saw the police van race up behind me however, I stopped immediately.I was detained at that location, handcuffed and searched. The policeman was angry. He said he felt insulted that I had ignored his command to stop and that I had tried to evade him. I was polite and cooperative. I gave my details. I gave the same explanation as set out above. I politely suggested that if I had been seeking to evade police, I would not have continued on my way to work!!!My details were recorded and I was asked to sign my statement, which I did. I was told I would receive a notice of proceedings through the post. I was then let go.What happens to me next? Are these criminal offences? If found guilty, will I have a criminal record? What are the likely penalties? What are my options?A key question in my mind is, does it not only become an offence to 'fail to stop' once you are aware that you have been ordered to do so? As stated above, I did not realise that I was formally being ordered to stop until I saw the police van behind me, and then I stopped immediately.What to do? Please help!(I am concerned this might affect my immigration status in this country. I currently hold a Tier 2 General visa, which I am looking to extend. I have no criminal convictions.)
Province/Country relating to question : London, UK
HiThank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer. I will try to help with this.What is your main question about this?
What happens to me next? Are these criminal offences? If found guilty, will I have a criminal record? What are the likely penalties? What are my options?
OK.So, in summary, they say you drove through a red light and then failed to stop for police?
Rode my bicycle through a red light, yes, and then failed to stop for a policeman, yes.
They are criminal offences. All road traffic offences are. However, they are non recordable criminal offences so don't really impact on character.For the red light offence you will get 3 points on your driving licence if you have one. If not you will have points added to your nominal UK licence. There will also be a fine and court costs.For failing to stop you will be fined. They may well not prosecute that actually given the red light offences unless the officer was literally an Inspector or somebody very important that CPS will not want to upset. Your only real option is to plead guilty if they do prosecute this. You could make representations to them but that isn't likely to deter them.You accept going through a red light. There is no defence in saying you were riding a pedal cycle. Lights apply to them too.You accept failing to stop. If the police officer shouted at you to stop and you did not then unless he either was plain clothes and didn't know he was an officer, which is not what you are saying, or he did not clearly tell you to stop there is no defence arising.Sorry but thats your position and I have a duty to give you truthful and accurate information.Please rate my answer three stars or above and then I will be happy to give you related information for free.
You state that the offences are 'criminal offences'.
However, the alleged offences are not on the Legal Services Commission 'list of criminal offences'.
The key question on the Tier 2 application is, “Have you been convicted of any criminal offence in the UK or any other country?”
Can I answer no, if the offence is "non-recordable"?
So you think I will be charged with the red light offence, but not the policeman offence?
What are the likely fines?
It depends. Does it qualify criminal offences in any way? Often they exclude road traffic.Please rate my answer THREE STARS or above and then I will give you free follow up information.
The Legal Services Commission 'list of criminal offences' does include some Traffic offences, but not the ones I am alleged to have committed.
So, can I answer no?
And what might I expect the fines to be, roughly?
I'm afraid I think you need to tell them as this is a criminal offence. Whether or not it has any impact is another matter.On the point of fines, that depends on your income. I will need to have some rough idea of that.i will be happy to discuss that but please rate my answer three stars or above.
Sorry to be difficult, but this is very important to me and so I would like to understand clearly.
1. With respect to the Legal Services Commission list of "criminal offences" (which lists some traffic offences, but excludes mine), what is the status of this list? Is there a corresponding statute which lists all "criminal offences"?
2. What is the difference between recordable/non-recordable and endorsable/non-endorsable offences?
3. Surely my alleged offences are in the same catagory as speeding and parking offences? I am fairly sure that it is not the intent of the "criminal convictions" question to have to declare these? (It was not when I entered the country.)
4. Apparently my offences, when committed as a cyclist, can be dealt with by a Fixed Penalty Notice? In my case, I was not issued one. Surely, the penalties must be consistent? On a bicycle, the FPN for each is £30...
I will be delighted to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Ok, I've done a little more research, and I'm not sure the advice you have given me to my most important question is correct, i.e. Do I have to declare the offences as "criminal convictions"?
Your advice was that the offences would constiture criminal convictions and that I would have to declare them.
However, it would appear that whilst these offences might be 'criminal', they are neither "recordable" nor "notifiable" and are therefore not considered to be "criminal convictions" and not required to be declared as such?
Also, with respect to the fines, are these offences not dealt with by FPN, i.e. if the fine is paid there is no criminal prosection (and also no "conviction"?
Surely, whether to issue a £30 FPN or summons to court with the prospect of a fine of up to £1,000 simply cannot be a the constable's discretion...?
I would be happy to rate you 5 stars and pay your fee, but I would like to feel reassured first that the advice you are providing is in fact correct!
Sorry but this is becoming uneconomical for me so I'm going to opt out.
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