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Stuart J
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Property Law
Satisfied Customers: 19594
Experience:  PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
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I gave my tenants a fixed term tenancy agreement in june 2011 for a 12 month period but pu

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I gave my tenants a fixed term tenancy agreement in june 2011 for a 12 month period but put in a clause stating that after 4 months into the fixed TA either I the landlord or they could give 2 months notice to leave the property.Then in 2012 and now in 2013 I gave a memorandum to state the fixed period would be renewed for 12 months on the same basis as the original TA drawn up in June 2011, except that I or they could give 2 months notice to end the agreement. Now when I gave them 2 months notice to go In june 13, they went to the council and have said the notice is not valid-and will not leave until june 2014- is this right
Submitted: 11 months ago via Tenancy Agreement Service.
Category: UK Property Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.
Hi

Thank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

Sorry if I'm missing the point but surely the four month period hasn't expired?
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


This is what I need to confirm- sorry if this sound a bit dim of me- but initially I gave a fixed term assured tenancy agreement for 12 months starting 16th June 2011- then in June 12 I gave just a memorandum stating the renewal on the same basis as the TA dated 16th June 11 but this year I did put renewal on same basis as original TA save I or tenants can give 2 months notice to leave the property- so would this not be valid as any time in this year- or is it only valid after 4 months in to this agreement - so from Oct 13


 

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Relist: Incomplete answer.
Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.
Well it depends what the last agreement says.

However, it is likely that the terms allow for a break clause to take effect at the six month point but which must be exercised at the four month point.

Probably the issue is that you s21 notice had the wrong date on it and so is void.

If those are the terms of the AST then you can serve notice in October to expire in December.

Can I clarify anything for you?

Jo
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Yes pls just confirm so that I have this right- have I given notice too soon in the sense that if the original TA says after 4 months into the Fixed TA of a year I can or tenats can give 2 months notice to terminate TA then that has to follow this year in 2013 as well? Although I did put in this years memorandum that I or they can give 2 months notice to terminate the agreement and didn't state anything about after 4 months in to the year but left it abstract.


 


Also if it is correct that I can only give notice 4 month into the TA - will I be ok in giving notice to them in Oct for a December termination date which will actually make it 6 months by the time they go ( June 16- dec 16 if notice is given on oct 16. I am a little concerned as the tenants went to the council and then text me to say they have been told they can stay in the propertry until June 14? Could this be because the council officer did not see the original TA dated 16th June in which case I can show her the original that I and the tenants both signed.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.
I'm not sure I'm going to be able to answer that conclusively unless you give me the exact wording of the last AST?

I'm just offline now but I can pick this up in the morning if you are able to do that?
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Yes I attached a clause under what I labelled Addenda to the Tenancy Agreement and the exact wording I used was '' The landlord will accept/give 2 months notice from/to the tenant to vacate the property after 4 months onto the fixed term of this tenancy agreement.


The fixed term was initially dated 16th June 2011. and the term is stated as 16/6/11 to 15/6 12.


 


Let me know if it would be better to email you the actual tenancy agreement and memorandums that I did for 2012 nd then 2013.


 


Kind Regards


Neeta

Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.
Yes so you can give notice on the 16th of October to expire on the 16th of December.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Hi sorry I could not reply yesterday as my system was down. Do you need to see the tenancy agreement as you mentioned you need the exact wording and also because I have spoken to their caseworker at the council and she said she was unsure and gave them the advise to stay in the property because in this years memorandum I had put the memo is based on the original TA save for the tenant or we the landlord can give 2 months notice to leave an she took this to mean at the end of the 12 month period???


 

Customer: replied 11 months ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
I want to open up the question posed to jomo1972 as she is offline or unavailable and she had mentioned that she needs to see the exact wording of the Tenancy Agrrement I gave my Tenants and the Memorandum that I issued in the following two years. Since I can't wait for her I need help now
Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.

I'm not sure what you want to know?

I've responded to this question? Is it not visible?

Delighted to continue with this but please rate my answer.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


The answer you have given has only just become visible as I have been having some problems with my system and could not come online yesterday . I will rate your answer but am still unsure because as I have mentioned the tenants went to the council homeless unit and showed them the Memorandum for this year and the homeless caseworker concluded the notice is illegal. I spoke to her yesterday and asked on what basis did she provide such definitive advise to the tenants that they must stay until june 2014 and she replied because the memorandum says you the landlord or the tenants can give 2 months notice to leave the ppty. Now I am confused because I don';t know whether I have been too abstract in the memorandum this year as I have said we or the tenants can give 2 motnhs notice to leave and the caseworker is arguing that this means after the 12 month period and I am saying no I mean within the 12 month period if I give 2 months the tenats must go.


 


Do u think its better to see the memo and TA?


 

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Relist: Answer quality. I am unsure if the memo that I issued this year June 13 has been abstract and open to misunderstandings. Can I open the question to others ? and then attach the TA and Memo

Expert:  Jo C. replied 11 months ago.
I'm afraid I've opted out of this question because you have left a negative rating.
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


No problem will ask for another expert to help, but thank you for your help

Expert:  Stuart J replied 11 months ago.
I think your question has really been answered. The advice is right.

What else do you want to know?
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Property Law
Satisfied Customers: 19594
Experience: PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
Stuart J and other UK Property Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 11 months ago.


Am I wrong in thinking that by stating that I or the tenants can give 2 months notice in the memorandum without putting in after 4 months into the Tenancy, that this means at any time within this tenancy which is for 1 year I can give notice? I was under the impression that I can give 2 months notice as I have done in July to terminate the TA?


 


IF this is not the case will I be in some sort of trouble for giving the notice too early? or do I just leave this and give notice in October, which is 4 months on?


 


Also does this mean I can't sell the house until the 4 months on or can I still sell with the Tenants in the ppty.?


 


Furthermore they are not giving access to get the necessary gas safety checks carried out which is a legal requirement for me as a landlord- what do I do? Can I write to them informing them that I will come in with the gas safety person to ensure this is carried out as all else has failed, as I have written to them and rung several times to no avail. As well as this they haven't paid the correct deposit which went up when the rent went up in June when the new tenancy year began

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