My Wife has been invited to stay with our youngest Daughter and her Husband in Shanghai for the last five weeks and recently they asked her to ask me to receive the following:-With only a briefest reference during a call to my Wife a payment of £4994.00 has arrived in our bank account from my Daughters Husband, both She and He work and live on a somewhat temporary basis in Shanghai, China where I believe they are working on a self employed basis.They want me to pay it into an account of their choosing - (yet to be identified or to happen).One hears a lot about money laundering and I am worried that this might be a case of just that.They say that I should simply treat it as a repayment (she owes me about £15000.00) but of couse it is not in any way a repayment as I am simply being used as a middleman.I have also been told that as there is a Court case still going on in which his Ex Wife is sueing for as much money as she can get out of their estate and this is a way of bypassing that.So - my question is - am I becoming involved in Money Laundering or any other illegal event as a result of simply paying this money on???Could I legally keep it as a part payment of the £15k that she owes ME.
Province/Country relating to question : Shanhai/ Britain
Hello,I will do my best to help you with this.My advice is that you should not pay the money forward to another account without being much more clear about its origin and the explanation for it needing to be paid to you and then to whomever else it now needs to be paid. As you suspect, you could be getting embroiled in laundering here. They could be trying to involve you in the chain, which will be a big chain in order to try to make the funds untraceable. However, the much more likely explanation is that they are trying to pay monies away from his accounts in order to stop his ex-wife getting her hands on it! Unfortunately, their tactic will not work because when his accounts are scrutinised, questions will be asked as to where this money has gone and why. Given that you are owed £15k, you could explain that you intend to keep the money as a part payment and see what response that gets. They have said you can do so and the money is owed, so you are within your rights. It would certainly not be an illegal act, as such. If a dispute arose, it would be a civil as opposed to a criminal matter. Please rate me OK SERVICE or above and I will gladly answer your follow up questions. John
solicitor with 8 years experience
Hi NavarroThe key to the question as to whether this is money laundering is whether or not the monies which are being transferred are the proceeds of crime. That is it in a nutshell. That is the question with which you must concern yourself. My view from what you have said is that the monies relating to the ebay purchase are not proceeds of crime and that you need not be concerned about money laundering. However, I would want to know more about the item that was sold via ebay and your knowledge of it in order to be able to advise further. Can you confirm?As for the £4994 deposit, you do need to know where this has come from and the reason for its transfer. As I said, proceeds of crime is the key. If you do not know where this money has come from then how do you know whether it is the proceeds of crime and how can you know whether you are involved in money laundering. The key for you is not to transfer the money anywhere until you know where it has come from and have satisfied yourself that it is not the proceeds of crime. You need to ask your daughter some hard questions...I do not believe that it will be the proceeds of crime or that this is a case of money laundering. However, I am taking a cautious approach here. So long as you do nothing to that money, you cannot be accused of money laundering. I do not have a big problem with the account into which you are being asked to pay the money. My concern is only where the money has come from and whether it is legitimate. It seems to me that the aim of your daughter and partner is to filter monies away and out of the country in order to keep them away from his ex-partner. As I said, this will not work because the monies are traceable and will be traced into your account and then into the account you are being asked to transfer to. Perhaps you might mention this to your daughter if you manage to have a frank discussion with her. So, I do not think you should be overly concerned but you would be well advised to question where the £4994 has come from before you move it anywhere and you would ideally have that frank discussion with your daughter...Best wishesJohn
Good Morning John,
so its the origin of the money that determines the crime.
If I am assured that this is properly earned and taxed money and I can get my Daughter to put this fact in writing - I can quite safely put it in an account of their direction without being accused of Money Laundering of any sort - Yes / no?
Re your question - "I would want to know more about the item that was sold via ebay and your knowledge of it in order to be able to advise further. Can you confirm?"
I am told that this was the possession of both My Daughters current Husband and his now ex wife - she insisted in keeping it, until the property it was situated in was sold (they had no less than four properties) and then she just wanted it removed - bloody mindedness according to my Daughter
HiThe origin is the important thing, yes. However, getting it in writing that the money has been properly earned etc is only part of the equation. The real key is that you actually believe that the money has not come from crime. If you have a suspicion that the monies have come from some sort of criminal activity, having it in writing that is hasn't will not change very much. So, the important thing is what you believe and whether you have good reasons for believing it. If you receive all of the necessary assurances and you trust your daughter, then you will be in the clear. If you still have suspicions then think again and do not transfer the monies.As you say, the destination of the monies is not particularly significant although it does form part of the picture you need to consider in deciding what you reasonably believe.Regarding the ebay items, the position is the same. You have been told what the items were so the question is whether you believe that or retain suspicions. It sounds like you were not involved in the sale and only dealt with the proceeds of the sale. Overall, it does not sound to me like money laundering is going on here but I understand why you are concerned. John
I am promised a note from XXXXXX XXXXX clearly stating that the money has come from his Chinese A/c which his Ex Wife knows nothing about., the money belongs to him and he is simply trying to avoid his EX Wife from knowing about the transfer to his new wife's account by sending it via ours.
I am now being pressured into making the payment and need a fast response if at all possible
Navarro If you believe them and you are confident that the monies are not proceeds of crime then you have no problem in making the payment. However, remember also what we said. They owe you £15k and you could easily decide to hold on to the monies in payment of a portion of what is owed. John
Well after much heated telephone discussion about how unreasonable I was being I finally got the following emailed statement from my Daughters Husband (Current)
To confirm the transfer of the £4994 into ls arkinstall and d j Scott account 40206504 and that the funds have come from my Chinese bank account which is a legitimate bank account and the funds are also legitimate. Please make the transfer on receipt of this email.
OK Navarro, I think you have done well to cover yourself on this one. The main thing was to be confident that your daughter and her husband are not doing anything illegal and you have assured yourself of that. Any further queries, please do let me know. BestJohn
Hi John - I put a £10.00 bonus through this morning for you against the first payment/rating - sorry it couldn't be more
Hi NavarroThanks for giving me the bonus, it all helps. Here in the future if you need me...BestJohn
Hi John - I keepgetting requests to Rate your answers _ I have already done so after the first answer and completed with a £10 bonus - can you stop these spurious requests for ratings - Please
Apologies Navarro, it is probably because every time I send a response to you as an 'answer' the system then expects a rating. I have sent this as an info request so hopefully you won't be asked for a rating!John
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