I did not give my details to the fraudster over the phone.
1. I was phoned by someone purporting to be from Verified by Visa who said that there had been abnormal transactions on my account and that I should contact the NW helpline.
2. I called the NW helpline and received detailed instructions about closing my online account. This included transferring money to another account. However it subsequently transpired that the first caller had not hung up and that I was speaking to their accomplice. Prior to this I was not aware of the vishing fraud method. However it is evident that the NW is aware but did not put in place adequate measures to protect their domestic customers.
This is a really unfortunate situation that youhave been placed in and you have my every sympathy because I was nearly ina similar situation as you are 10 years ago when someone rang me purportingto ask me if I wanted an increased overdraft limit which I did not. In so manywords I told them to get stuffed because they rang me on a Sunday. I complainedto the bank on Monday and it ended up with an investigation because the bankdoes not make such calls and certainly does not make them on Sunday.
There was actually more to it because earlierthat day, someone had rung the bank purporting to be me and asking to increasethe overdraft limit. I had a small overdraft limit but the account was alwaysin credit and they wanted to increase it from £3000-£10,000.
Evidently what they then do is get in to your account(or they did at the time because the Internet banking system was very basic), usingthe pass word and username of all things from your mobile phone account held bythe mobile phone company because, of all things, this fraud was perpetratedfrom within a mobile phone company! It worked on the basis that most people usethe same username and password XXXXX everything and the mobile phone company hadpeople's bank account details in any event. Once into the account, they emptiedit into a spare account, emptied the spare account and then closed it
Clever. Fortunately, they didn't get me but thatwas only because I was annoyed at being rung on a Sunday.
And so, to your case.
Until 18 months ago, my partner was a seniorfraud investigator for a credit card company and therefore, before answeringthis I wanted to run this past her. True, it was a credit card company sheworked for but the principles are the same to a point.
The analogy you use of the credit card is reallybased upon completely different facts because the situation is completelydifferent if you had bought something with this money and then the item did notarrive.
You actually were victim of a telephone fraudsterwho quite plausibly asked you to ring another number which may have been thesame number or may have been his colleague hanging on the line and you thentransferred the money to the account (voluntarily) that you had been given thedetails of. This is not how building society's work although you were not toknow that.
My partner use the analogy which is that ineffect, you took the money out of your building society account and gave it toa doorstep conman in that case, the building society has no liability.
The building society's duty of care does notextend to advising every account holder of every single kind of fraudulentactivity because that would be a mega-gargantuan task. They do say onmonotonously frequent basis that you should never disclose your account detailsto anyone and whilst I accept that you did not do that, you transferred money,quite willingly to a third party without actually verifying the third party'sidentity.
For that reason, I think that nationwide have noliability to you. They do however have a duty to investigate this and it ishighly likely I am advised that your details have come from within nationwideotherwise, they would not have your telephone number and know that you had anationwide account.
This should therefore be referred to theirinternal fraud department but you should also refer it to the police. Whether youget your money back is anyone's guess but it would seem unlikely unless theycatch the fraudsters.
I'm sorry, I appreciate that this is not theanswer you wanted but there is no point in me misleading you or giving youfalse hope. I have a duty to advise you truthfully and honestly, even if thatanswer is unfavourable which I appreciate it is
Does that answer the question? Can I assistfurther or answer any specific queries?
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Thanks for your advice and for contacting your colleague about this. It is the answer that I expected (nothing wrong with that). I think however that the situation is different to handing money over to a conman on the doorstep. The con depended on particular features of the NW's systems (as well as my error/stupidity); the NW is aware that these cons are happening but has not put in place adequate measures to protect their non-expert customers (same as not providing the handrail for the builder's labourer in case he steps backwards). Please let me know if you have any further comments, otherwise I will sign off with a positive response.
Thank you for the kind comments.
You make very valid points, and I imagine that they are awarethat there is a "leak" somewhere within their internal system whereby thefraudster knows exactly the system and indeed, the fraudster has all yourpersonal details as I said earlier.
However that is very difficult if impossible for you to get tothe root of and from my own experience they will be looking very seriously atthis.
The letter to the chief executive would be better as an appealingletter asking for help and assistance and indeed offering it.
If you could prove to the satisfaction of a judge what themeasure is that they could easily put in place to prevent this ( it needs to besomething that is possible and practical) then you have a glimmer of a possibilityof bringing a claim. I say that it is a glimmer and it would depend on youcoming up with something which would constitute a breach of duty of care. Itwould need to be something specific and you would need to know that they doindeed have knowledge of exactly this activity.
If the amount is under £10,000, it will be small claims courtanyway and you will not have to pay their legal costs, even if you lose and bythe same token, you don't get yours back even if you win, if you use solicitors.
At this stage, from the facts you have given me I would notactually be spending the issue fee although if you can get a breach that youcan actually hang your hat on, it might be worth considering
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