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Stuart J
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 20380
Experience:  PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
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Hi I am owed money £130 by a small independent shop which

Resolved Question:

Hi

I am owed money £130 by a small independent shop which is now insolvent. (It went insolvent on 26th March 2013)
They asked me to send on 18th July 2013 an invoice for goods previously sent on 22nd October 2012 and to also send additional goods.
No mention of bankruptcy until last week - they are refusing to pay for the goods even though they said a cheque had been previously sent weeks ago.
Can I get the money owed (and the additional £300 stock back)?
Is small claims the way to go?
Thanks
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Law
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your question here on Just answer. It is my pleasure to try and assist you with this today. Please bear with me if I need to ask for any further information from you in order for me to be able to advise you fully. My name isXXXXX and I am a practising solicitor. I have been an expert on this website in UK law since 2008. During that time, as you appreciate, I have answered thousands of questions from satisfied users on a variety of subjects.

Because we are all in practice with clients and court and other users, I might not always respond in minutes, particularly evenings and weekends. Please bear with me in that case. I will be online and off-line all day most weekdays and weekends.

Were they a limited company?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


I am not 100% sure - this is the information I have found.


 


 


 


http://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/eiir/IIRCaseIndivDetail.asp?CaseId=700939743&IndivNo=702109031&Court=KOT&OfficeID=600000023&CaseType=B

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Would it be helpful for me to send the email chain to you?


 


Thanks

Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
So was that the individual who you sold the goods to and was that the address of the shop?
Did the shop have a name?
In your paperwork do you have any retention of title clause whereby the goods remain yours until paid for in full?
Have you dealt with this business before? If so, I need to know how often and over how long.
What extra goods did they ask you to send (or did she ask you to send?) On 18 July?
Is the £300 additional stock still there?
The email chain will assist.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


Yes - Stevee Hunt at Coco Bee Boutique.


 


The problem is that Stevee asked for the invoice in Coco Bees name months after it had gone bankrupt - she is now claiming the invoice is void.


 


 


I originally sent items on a sale or return basis in October last year.


 


I tried calling several times to see if any items had been sold, no answer.


 


Please see email chain.


 


Eventually I emailed in May 2013 and got this reply:



Hi Richard,


Please can you send me and imvoice for the items also I would love to order a couple more of each item or pearls. Open a new shop this week so asap would be fantastic. The new address would be
Stevee hunt
The little wychwood
Wychwood inn
High street
Shipton under wychwood
Oxon
Ox76ba



June 24th









Hi Richard,


That's great, please can you resend the previous invoice also a signed copy of all sor items provided to the little wychwood. (Please do not indicate coco bee on here as they are two separate companies)
I shall return the boxes to you as I already have boxes. Also all jewellery is taken out of the boxes for display.



 


4th July


Hi


Good luck with the opening.

Can you pay on this copy please - you did promise to pay 2 weeks ago.

A hard copy will follow but I prioritise your new product request to ensure you had stock for the opening.

Thanks

Richard

July 4th

Payment will be made on hard copy. Keeps the books straight.
please dont forget it took you 7 months to request it, and now you demand at a very busy time.
Regards
Steve

July 16th

Hi
I hope the shop is proving successful.

Just checking you got the hard copy of the invoice as requested.

Thanks

Richard









Hi Richard. Yes I did. A cheque is on ita way to you.


 



 


 


July 22nd


 


Hi


I hope you had a successful weekend.

Did you manage to send the cheque out - nothing received as yet.

Thanks

Richard

July 26th


I hope you're well.

Did you manage to send the cheque - no sign of it at this end yet.

Thanks

July 29th

Hi Richard,
All sent yes.
Many Thanks

Stevee

Aug 13th

Hi
Still no sign of the cheque - can you either send another or transfer the £124.08 please - this was due on the 18th July.

Thanks

Richard

Aug 14th


I shall speak to the owner of coco as we have separate businesses now. As he said he sent. Are you sure a cheque hasnt come for that amount in a different name? (Stevee)



Aug 14th


Thanks for getting back to me.

No cheques have come for that amount (most of my clients send via bank transfer).

Thanks

Richard

Aug 14th


Its no longer my company I sold to my partner (Stevee)




Aug 17th


HI


Can you let me know when I will be getting the cheque please?

Thanks

Richard

Aug 19th









I shall chase.
Can you resend via email a stock list of sale or return items please


 



(Stevee)

Aug 20th


Hi
Please find he invoice and the sale or return list for your reference.

Thanks


Richard

Aug 23rd

HI
Still no sign of the cheque - can you let me know when I will receive it please?

Thanks

Richard

Aug 23rd


Ita not down to me it's my x business partner. (Stevee)



Aug 23rd


I really don't want to go down a legal route to reclaim the money but I will if I have to.

Please send what is owed.(Richard)

Aug 23rd









I have spoken with my ex business partner and the company has liquidised. Sadly no way of getting that money from him.
Regards Stevee




Aug 23rd

What happened to the cheque you promised was on its way?
What are your ex businesses partners contact details? (Richard)

Aug 23rd


I didn't send the cheque he did. But obviously lied. I cannot provide details for him (Stevee)



Aug 23rd


Please send the money owed and the stock back (or pay for the stock taken).


If this does not happen I have no option but to start a legal claim against you, which may end up in court. (Richard)

Aug 25th









I shall send good back this week from TLW But no monies are available from coco Bee, should you have chased your money sooner than 7.months this would have been a different situation.
Please provide me with a return address



(Stevee)

Aug 25th

Return address is
XXX

Greenwich

London

SE100DB

The Law is 6 years to claim money owed. (Richard)

Aug 25th









But not possible if the company is bankrupt. That is a fault of ones self


 



(Stevee)


 


Aug 26th


 


I've just found out you filed for bankruptcy on 26 March 2013 - whereas you told me on 23rd August 2013 you had just found out the business has gone bankrupt.

Please pay all outstanding amounts within 7 Days or I will be taking you to court.

Richard

Aug 26th









What outstanding amounts


 



Stevee


 


Aug 26th


The Invoice 260 and either send back the stock on the packing list or pay for it.


Richard


 


 


Aug 26th


 









Invoice 260 is now void.
Goods will be posted Thursday


 















Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
You have seen the date that this woman went bankrupt and she went bankrupt on 26 March 2013. You need to contact the insolvency service and find out who the trustee in bankruptcy is. You then need to deal with this with the trustee in bankruptcy.
This is fraught and probably obtaining money by deception because clearly, she was still trading as a business (not an offence in itself) but deceiving you with regard to payment and with regard to the opening of a new shop. That is a police matter.
This is something that you need to take to the police and if whoever you speak to is not particularly interested, you need to speak to a senior officer or refer the matter to the chief Constable. Do not be fobbed off by them saying that it is a civil matter. It might be a civil matter but it is most certainly also a criminal matter.
I am going to be brutally honest with you and tell you that I think the chance of you ever seeing your goods or your money again is remote.
Title to goods passes on delivery unless there is a specific clause in the contract which says that they belong to you until paid for in full. I did ask you about that and you do not mention it so I assume that is not the case. The situation is different if the goods are obtained by fraud/deception but that becomes a police matter.
With regard to the money that she owes, but is something that you need to address with the trustee in bankruptcy because she should not have had more than £250 with the goods on credit without advising you that she was bankrupt.
The fact that she went bankrupt on 26 March 2013 only wipes out debt until that date and if the original goods were supplied before that date, that debt has gone.
However she is still liable for debts incurred after that date/new debts although clearly having gone bankrupt, she seems to think that she is immune from any kind of proceedings. If she went bankrupt (as she did) in March 2013 I think the chance that she is amassed enough money to be able to pay your bill by now is remote.
I’m sorry, I appreciate this is not the answer you wanted but there is no point in me misleading you. I have a duty to advise you truthfully and honestly, even if that answer is unfavourable
Does that answer the question?
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Regards.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


Thanks very much for this.


 


Out of interest what wording should I be putting on my sale or return packing lists to legally insure I retain title until they are paid for?


 


Thanks


 


Richard

Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
If you Google
retention of title
and / or
Romalpa Alloys
it will give you enough reading to keep you awake all night.
There have been a whole books written on the subject of retention of title and personally, about 10 years ago, I did an 8000 word essay on the subject and therefore it is not possible to explain all the ins and outs and intricacies of retention of title in a few paragraphs on here.
It is no good putting it on your invoices unless you deal with the business on a regular and consistent basis. They have to agree to your terms and conditions (including this one) before they actually deal with you. The reason is that anything on your invoice is post contract shall and you cannot impose terms and conditions after the event.
So assuming that you have indeed put it earlier on you need to say “goods remain property of the seller until all monies owed by the buyer to the seller whether in respect of these goods or any of the goods are paid for in full. The buyer agrees to keep the goods separate from any other persons goods clearly marked as belonging to the seller and to account to the seller for any goods supplied by the seller and which have been sold by the buyer. The seller agrees to hold any monies received from the sale of any such goods on trust for the seller. The buyer irrevocably grants the seller the right of access at all reasonable times to the buyers’ premises wherever the premises are located in order for the seller to remove any goods supplied under this contract and/or to remove goods supplied by the seller to the buyer in respect of any money which is outstanding in respect of anything at all, between the seller and the buyer.”

Please don’t forget to push the positive rating or I don’t get paid. Thank you.
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 20380
Experience: PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
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