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Senior Partner
Senior Partner, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 13231
Experience:  30 years experience in business law and related topics such as employment law
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I was having building works done, doors were delivered to my

Resolved Question:

I was having building works done, doors were delivered to my home for the build. Then the company asked for an scheduled payment, I refused, they said they would take the doors away, I said no. This was 3rd July. They suspended work and have not come back. Their work is so bad I will not have them back. I have written several letters, I have offered to settle all their suppliers invoices for the doors and other parts needed to continue the orangery but they do not reply. I now need to find another builder. The doors are still on my property, are they now mine, can I use them to continue the build.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Law
Expert:  Alex J. replied 1 year ago.
Hi

Thank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer.

How much were the roof and the doors? Did you pay for them directly?

How much is going to cost you to rectify the damage?

Kind regards

AJ
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

The whole contract to convert my hardwood conservatory to an orangery, including the doors and aluminium orangery roof was £35,000 . I paid 10% deposit

The cost now to put right the mess they have made could be in the region of £50,000

 

Please note, in my original question I said they arsked for a scheduled payment - it should have read UN-SCHEDULED payment of £7,000. This amount is not on the schedule of payments

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


I seem to be waiting a very long time for your response, please can you reply

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Are you going to answer me, I have waited nearly 2 hours. I've paid the money, please will you answer.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


When I asked my question, it stated you were there ready to answer, so I paid the money. I have now waited over 4 hours for a response. If you are unable to answer my question, please can you pass it to someone who can.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Relist: Other.
Know one has answered my question
Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your question. I am sorry that you had to wait for an answer. So you are aware, the experts on the site and independent and most like me are practising lawyers so we are not online all the time.

The answer to your question very much depends upon the contract . Title to goods you purchase usually passes to you on delivery even if you have not paid for them but some sellers expressly provide that title is retained by the seller until payment is made.

So you need to check the contract. If it does not cover the point you can assume the doors are yours. Even if they are not yours where you have paid some money ,and they are in breach of contract you are likely to have a claim against them for damages for breach of contract which would greatly exceed the cost of the doors so if they sued you you could counterclaim

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Citizens Advice this morning have said the doors do not belong to me and I must give the company 30 days to collect them. If they do not respond, I can use/dispose of and if they come back later they will have to sue me.


The Terms state title is theirs until goods are paid for. I want to keep and the doors and use them to continue the build (don't have a builder at the moment) I have a chartered building surveyor coming this afternoon to write a full report on the state of the work done and thae fact that the roof I bought from them could NEVER be installed, it would collapse as it requires piers to support it. No piers were ever being built. I consider keeping the doors as a very small means of offsetting the cost to me to put right their bad work. I guess if I give them 30 days to take the doors and glazing away, they will turn up for it and then I have lost evenmore. Who is right here, you or CAB

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
Thanks we are both right. I said if the contract was silent then you could assume they were your but that some companies reserved title. If you are saying that they have stated title is reserved then until you have paid for them then are not yours. You are legally under an obligation to look after them and you are supposed to serve notice on the trader.

However as you rightly say you will have a claim for damages against them to offset against any claim they may have against you if you keep the doors so practically I would not offer to return them. Bear in mind if they contracted to build something and failed to do it satisfactorily or at all you can claim the cost of putting it right.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.


I am not going to sue them, I know I am flogging a dead horse. I know I would win the day, the evidence (photographic and surveyors report is damming) but they have already dissolved 2 companies of the same name, the 3rd has the same name and address too. (the one I have the contract with) I believe they have nothing, not even company vans or tools. They subbed out the work, contrary to their website blurb. I don't know if they plan to sue me. They do not respond to my letters.


They also have one of my hardwood frames that I need in the build, they will not return it so I now have to find a carpenter to reproduce this frame. I also have to have the brickwork they done, re-done.


Just to clarify please, should I go ahead and use the materials they have left or give notice of 30 days to collect them and hope they don't. AM I leaving myself open to further problems later if I use the materials

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
The risk is that if you use the materials they could sue you for the value of them. This seems pretty unlikely given that you would have a counterclaim. If you want to serve the notice then you need to do it twice. First you have say come and collect then you have to send a second one saying you are going to dispose of the goods.

if they are that dodgy they probably never paid for them in the first place . That would be my biggest concern that they are not actually the supplier at all.

What is the value of the material? Can you claim that the deposit you paid covers the materials?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

They are not the manufacturer or supplier. They bought them from another company who supplied them direct to my house for installation by the company I have the contract with. Same with the roof, except that never turned up. The cost of the doors I would guess is circa £5/6k plus installation which never happened, and the glazing units, again, from somewhere else. I was supposed to be supplied with 36 Units, 15 were delivered, the rest have never shown up. I have no idea of the cost of the 15 units on site, the manufacturer will not speak to me as I am not trade.If they have not paid their invoices to these suppliers, then the supplier still owns them, if they have paid, then they (Art Of Glass) own them. By the way, another customer of Mrs Ganna Peatfield - Art Of Glass, Heathfield, contacted you 2 years ago, it is still on line to read. I wish I new what happened in the end.

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
Hi . I had forgotten that previous complaint. You are correct. They do sound pretty unsatisfactory but I cant tell you any more about the outcome of the previous case and have no way of contacting the customer.

Obviously my concern is that they have not paid and the manufacturer pops up and claims them. I would suggest in those circumstances you serve notice to protect yourself. then if can use them or dispose of them there is no claim against you.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


Do you mean serve notice to Art Of Glass. If they don't respond and don't collect them, are they then mine to do as I wish

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
Yes you can only serve notice on Art of Glass as they delivered the goods. You have to give two notices requiring them to be collected and the second saying that you intend to sell them. They never really become yours.
However If they are owned by Art of Glass and they sue you for damages for taking them then their title is extinguished by the damages and since they are likely to owe you if they sue I think on balance the best course for you if the goods are useable is to serve the notice simply saying collect or you will dispose of them and if they do not collect simply use them if in fact they are usable
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


How much Notice do I need to give in each of the 2 Notices

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
Period of notice is not specified but needs to be reasonable. If you intend to sell you can serve the second notice at the same time if you serve them by post. You need to specify what goods are covered, where they can be collected and provide you contact details.

Reasonable for a business is probably only 14 days. For an individual because of holidays etc 30 days. I would suggest 14 is all you need here.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.


O.K. lastly, does my communications with you have to be posted online. Ganna Peatfield is well aware of the site and has read the other complaint. It would seem a bad idea to post when we are still in dispute with each other.

Expert:  Senior Partner replied 1 year ago.
I can ask customer services to lock it I believe that is possible
Senior Partner, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 13231
Experience: 30 years experience in business law and related topics such as employment law
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