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Stuart J
Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 20069
Experience:  PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
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One day our new neighbour was measuring and looking with a

Customer Question

One day our new neighbour was measuring and looking with a man at the fence at the back of our field which borders onto his woodland. Upon seeing me he said that 'assuming it was our responsibility he would strongly encourage us to do so and would be willing to contribute towards half of the cost. A while later he asked for a meeting because he had received various quotes. Since there is natural tree line we explained that we prefer to look at the natural tree line, that we not really see a need because we have no livestock. There is no dispute as were the boundary is. When he came with the quotes he also had our title plans and property register. we asked if there is a legal obligation and he said that he didn't know. we now have downloaded our and his plans and it seems that we have a convenance to erect a cattle fence. We have been living there for 20 years and have no livestock. So although we do not see the need, he is insistent. He got various quotes to replace the fence. Although generous of him to be willing to contribute half of the cost, it seems that we have no say in which fence we would like to erect. The convenance states that we have to erect cattle fence on the eastern and southern side of the land which borders our house and garden ( different title plan and property register) and at the back of his woodland. We do have fencing along this borders. The back fence is in need of repair, because of age, damage from the overhanging branches from the trees of his woodland and the deer. Would it be reasonable to ask him to take care of the branches ( I assume this is his responsibility) and we seek advice in repairing the fence ourselves?
We now had a look at his plans and it seems that he has a restrictive convenance of having a fence along the length of his garden. However there is no fence. He owns the land in a different title next to where the fence should be.
Is he obliged to have a fence there or is it no longer required because he owns the adjoining land?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Law
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
Can you just confirm that this fence needs replacing?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The key posts are still ok, other posts need replacing. The 'wires' between the posts are still intact , although down on the floor in some places.
English not being my first language, I'm not sure what exactly the difference is between repairing and replacing.
I do not think there is a need to totally put up a new fence.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.




Don't worry about your English, sometimes I struggle with it as well!

Is it possible for you to let me have a copy of the land registry deeds? I
would need the deeds and the plan?



The reason is that if the property is freehold the covenant to erect a
fence only applies to either the original buyer at the time of the covenant 20
years ago, or to any subsequent buyers (including you) if each subsequent buyer
covenanted in turn.



That is why I would need to see the deeds. You can attach them, or email
them to me if you can confirm that you can scan them.

You may actually have no liability regardless of what the covenant says.

When did you buy the porperty?

The difference between repair and replace is that you only replace it if it
is no longer in a fit state to repair. If the posts are OK and it can be repaied, there is no ned to replace.





Please bear with me today and over any weekends because
I will be online and off-line.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
We bought our property in August 1993.
I have downloaded all the title plans and property register which I can e mail to you. Which e mail address?
As I' m currently not in the UK I have no access to our land registry deeds at the moment or is this something I can also download from the land registry?

Also my email addressXXX@XXXXXX.XXX seems to be registered to somebody else?
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
We cant have contact outside the site, sorry. send to experts@justanswer.com with my name and UK law on. They can take 24hrs to be fwd to me. Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I fully understand and respect that!I will forward the required documents to the above mentionned e mail address.I have sent the tittle plans and property registers of our property as well as the neighbours.Apparently the bank holds our deeds. We will do the necessarily to get hold of them and e mail them as well as soon as possible.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.
Dont worry about deeds at the bank. Land Reg docs are fine. Thanks
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.




Hi. I have 5 docs but they are simply the extracts, not the Land Reg deeds
with the details I need on. There appear to be 5 different title numbers.

You can get Land Reg docs here for £3 each title number https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/portal/!ut/p/b1/04_SjzS0tDQwMTIxMjLXj9CPykssy0xPLMnMz0vMAfGjzOKNjSxMDA1NjDwsjM3MDTxN3dyNDUNMjQ1MjPWDU_P0c6McFQH3SLFU/



Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hi,

The link you forwarded is exactly where I got the title plans and title registration from which I forwarded to you. I have contacted land registry as how to obtain a full land reg. They haven't come back to me yet.
The boundary I refer to in my first question is between ESX115346 and ESX230693.
The second question I refer to is between ESX126599 and ESX57659.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.

Thanks.

All I got was the one page summary for each title. I need the Official Copies of Title Register. They are £3 each and £3 each plan., £6 each title in total

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I forwarded these to the email address you provide. I will contact them again as each one I sent contains 3 or 4 pages.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.

Thanks. I have one set now. I will wait for the others.

Regards

Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.




I have them all now. It has taken a far disproportionate amount of time to
study the documents than we would normally spend answering a question on here
for the fee. However, I took it on, so I will deal with it for you.

Normally, I would print all the documents off and go through them word by
word so I cannot gurantee that I have missed a minor pount. It is a couple of hours job for which a solicitor would charge, probably
£400 plus VAT. I have already spent over an hour on it.



I will just use the last three digits of the title numbers.



201 and 346 are owned by
Verbeelen.



599, 693 and 659 are owned by Froud.



The only references I can find to fencing are at clause A3ii in 346 and in
C1b of 599.



Refer to title 346 and read, if you will, clause B1. That is really
important in this title.



Under normal circumstances, a positive freehold covenant is only and
forcible against the original person who covenanted. Any subsequent buyers are
not bound unless each of the subsequent buyers has entered into a similar kind
of covenant as in clause B1 of title 599. However, the covenant in clause B1 to perform the covenants refers to the
covenants in the Charges Register. There is no covenant with regard to the
fence in the Charges Register, because it is actually in the Property Register
at clause 3ii.



However, the covenant in 346 appears to be to erect a fence between two
pieces of land owned by Verbeelen. Although it is confusing because 3ii says to
erect a fence with the boundary on the south and east, which would appear to be
the ones bordering the wood land , but then it goes on to say that they are the
southern and eastern boundaries of the land known as Knowle Lodge , which is to
the north



Moving now to title 599. There is a covenant to a rector fence between
points A and B, but there contained in the transfer deed and not shown on the
land Registry title plan. Even so, there is no indemnity covenant as there is
in title 346 clause B1, which means that it only applies if the current owner
is the owner, who did the original covenant which it appears, was back in 1962.
It appears that Froud only bought the property in 86.



If you let me know which border on which plan it will assist me to give you
a specific answer. You appear to be Verbeelen and the neighbour Froud. Is that
correct?



I think the covenant that he is looking to enforce is that contained in
title 346.



In which case as Verbeelen bought the property in 1999, and there is only
an indemnity at B2 to observe the covenants in the charges register (and that
in the property register is not mentioned). I don't think that Verbeelen has to
put a fence up.



Assuming that it is not the southern and eastern boundary of Knowle Lodge but
it is the southern and eastern boundary of 346 There is another issue and that
is that even if there is an enforceable covenant, once it has been breached for
20 years or more (Hepworth v Pickles) , it is no longer enforceable.



Please bear with me today and over any weekends because I will be online
and off-line.

Please don't forget to positively rate my answer service (even if it was not
what you wanted to hear) and I will follow up any further points you raise for
free.

If you don't rate it positively, then the site keep your deposit and I get 0
for my time. It is imperative that you give my answer a positive rating. It
doesn't give me "a pat on the head", "good boy" (like ebay), it is my
livelihood!

If in ratings you feel that you expected more or it only helped a little,
please ask me for further info before rating me negatively otherwise I don't
get paid at all for my time and answer.

The thread remains open for us to continue this exchange



Stuart J, Solicitor
Category: UK Law
Satisfied Customers: 20069
Experience: PGD Law. 20 years legal profession, 6 as partner in High Street practice
Stuart J and other UK Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your answer.
We are indeed Verbeelen, bought our property in August 1993 and not 1999. Froud is our neighbour, who bought his property in 2012 and not 1986.
The border discussed is the most southern border of 346 , bordering onto 693.
The reason why we hadn't rated your answer before , is that it was not clear to us that if we rated your answer ( as to which e mail to sent the documents) we would have to pay extra as to get an answer to our original posted question. He had nothing to do with the quality of the answers. Also, i think it was indeed necessary for you to have a look at the documents as to give us a professional answer.
I also would like to clarify that it was never my intent to have contact outside this post. My question as to which e mail to sent the documents to, was necessary as I do not seem to have the right software to attach in my replies.
My question about access to my e mail address should have been directed to customer service. They have taken care of it.
I look forward to your specific answer.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.








Thank you.



The covenant to put a new fence up is contained in schedule attached to a
transfer to a previous owner, dated 12 December 1984.



The property is freehold and freehold covenants are not enforceable against
subsequent owners, only the original owner, unless there is an indemnity covenant
which there is at clause B2.



However, clause B2 refers to you complying with the covenants in the
charges register, section C. None of those covenants concern putting a fence up
and not of them refer to any rights granted or reserved in the 1999 transfer to
you.



I of the opinion therefore that if the neighbour wants a fence up, the
neighbour is faced with paying it himself



You might want to print out this last post (although there is no reason why
you cannot print any of the old thread out) and show it to your neighbour,
along with the Official Copy 346.



PS there may be a covenant to put a fence up in the 1980
transfer/conveyance or the 1985 transfer/conveyance, but without details of
those, it is impossible to be. I think it doubtful or it won't not be
specifically mentioned in clause 3ii of
Section A because there would be no need.



Customer: replied 1 year ago.
We are in the process to obtain the full title register documents, which might take a while since these can not be downloaded. Is it possible to leave the post open in case we need further clarification ?
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.

You don't need any more docs although you might want to get the conveyances and transfers referred to in the Titles that you sent.

Yes the thread remains open.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That's what Ihave asked for. Sorry, used the wrong wording.
Expert:  Stuart J replied 1 year ago.

No problem. I think they are unlikely to help but worth looking just to be sure

 

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