Hello, Many thanks for your question. I shall endeavour to assist. If there is anything in my answer that you require me to clarify please ask.
I have alot of experience for acting for recruitment consultancies. I act in my day job for some big highstreet names.
I imagine that you have got an REC standard form set of terms of business that entitle you to a fee if they engage someone that you introduce. I have done hundreds of these "back door" cases and you should win.
Send them an invoice quoting the relevant clause and that the invoice has been rendered because you introduced the two candidates and they took them on. If they fail to pay then send them another letter threatening court action. If they still fail to pay come back on here and ask me to prepare the particulars of claim for the court. I would suggest you set the question value at around £40 because there is quite a lot of work involved. What I would need to know from you is the date each candidate was introduced, the date they were engaged, confirmation of the date the Terms were signed or given to them and also please cut, paste and post your terms on here.
If you want to come back to me at a late stage to ask me to do this for you then click on my name below DR Lawyer when you come back into the question. Then you can post me the new question on my profile page.
Hi Dr. Lawyer... yep, I knew about the invoice to threat of legal action side to initiate the process.
1.Curious if my 30% penalty fee for not informing us of a starter ( we normally work to 15% with them ) is upholdable.
2. Also... with regards XXXXX XXXXX one from summer 2009.... can I still act on this?? here are the facts. I'm happy to pay for two answers here.
Here is the email trail from 2009. Although all emails went to WorksUnit... they were claiming a that the hire I was looking at was for a division ( we are talking about a company of 30 people all in an open planned office. All emails on recruitment for any placements go through Grace's inbox. Barry would have sat within 40 feet of Grace's desk when he joined. She's trying to make it sound grander than it is.
The WorksMedia job roles have still been put on hold. Barry Webber has been employed by WorksUnit, a completely separate company, for an entirely different job role, for which I did not get involved with. If you have any issues then please feel free to give me a ring.
From: Rob Johnston [mailtoXXX@XXXXXX.XXX] Sent: 17 July 2009 13:55To: Grace Brown; James QuinnellSubject: FW: Barry Webber - Developer
Hello Grace / James.
I just got in a couple of Flash roles with Graphico, so as a start am going through the work I did for you guys in April & May. 5 weeks effort with 13 candidates submitted...
I called Barry just now to see if he was interested in my roles... and he says that he's employed at WorksUnit?
At the time there was expressed interest in Barry from the team, and we specifically talked about his front-end strengths being of use; but it was all on hold. Initially while Harley / Dave were in Vancouver and the because of the acquisition when they got back.
I called back mid June, spoke with Grace and was told it was all still on hold and to call back end of July.
Please give me a call on my mobile to discuss. 07795 053 095
Rob Johnston| Senior Consultant | Go Partnership | t: 01189 747505 | m: 07795 053 095 | w: http://www.gopartnership.com/
From: Rob Johnston Sent: 08 April 2009 16:20To:XXX@XXXXXX.XXXSubject: Barry Webber - Developer
Another guy for you to put over to Harley.
He's in between the two roles. Last salary £25K, front-end strength but super keen on a Actionscript focused role, so think he'd be a little flexi
Hello Dr. Lawyer,
I sure hope only you can see this info that I've posted! I've contacted Justanswer to ask the visibility of it. We are sending in an invoice on Monday for the latest Candidate, but will wait to you hear from you with regards XXXXX XXXXX candidate from last Summer.
Biggest question would be whether they can hide behind "well, that was for a different company/team, for a different role"... In which case it would be a waste of time and just antagonise them more. Financially, they are sound company so I'm not opposed to go down the legal route if I have a very strong case.
We are going to keep them as two separate issues and two seperate invoices.
In the email paste above ( which I can't re-edit!) you've got my mobile or our company website from which you can send an email to me... or just keep it to this site.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I was at work today in my day job.
The situation you describe I have come across about 20 or 30 times before and I have litigated and won those disputes.
There will be a clause in your contract I imagine called a third party intro clause. This clause will entitle you to a fee if you introduce someone to them and they then introduce them to someone else.
To be honest, I don't think they did this intentionally. No malice, just a little disorganized.
Each case would be the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing... but my business has suffered.
Question is, if they claim that it was a different "company" and a different "role" even if the this other company is one physical desk away...
would a Judge say "you sent the CV to them for company W and Role X.... they are saying they hired them for company Y for role Z... even if the Holding company is WorksUnit and all CV's were going through the same gal. ... Doesn't matter, you don't get to send a fee??
Or would he say "you sent CV's to a main contact for an organization, that organization hired said person (doesn't matter for what division, what role) and hence, you deserve a fee.
Hopefully that makes sense?
If you don't understand what I'm asking let me know and I'll try and explain it more clearly. Is another £30 good?
Yes that would be fine.
From what you have told me this is a third party introduction case. Look for the clause in your REC standard form terms that refers to you being entitled to a fee if you introduce a candidate and they introduce the candidate to a third party who engages the candidate. There is also something about candidate introductions being confidential. That is the clause you would rely on.
So regardless if they physically introduced the candidate to a 3rd party. I'm suer another agent just came across them on the market and submitted, ( not knowing the history )
I would still rely on this clause. I.e. it's not my responsibility to prove, or question how the same candidate appeared in there inbox. Whether incidental, or intentional.. I'm entitled to a fee as per my Terms of Business.
On a Side note. the FD is almost dismissing our terms of business, and my reference to the, and has been asking for our "terms of agreement" that we have with his company. What is he angling at?
Oh... I just realised that you didn't address the previous question about the placement last year.
If they stick to their guns that it was a different role for a different group within their company... as per their email to me in July 2009 when I raised the issue... and I can't prove otherwise. I would have a Zero chance for a Case for the placement in 2009, correct??
I just don't want to give them one solid invoice... and then one flimsy one; that they can then focus on, i.e. if they feel their position is rock solid.
My fear is that it will then protract the very valid one from this year.
Hopefully I haven't confused you hear and you understand the situation pretty well.
07795 053 095
From what you have said the invoice for last year was not an engagement by your client but rather an introduction to a third party company. They sit in the same building, in fact open plan office, so you can quite easily allege that they introduced the candidate to the other company and thus trigger a third party introduction fee. I say this on the presumption that your terms are pretty standard terms of business for the recruitment sector and would have the usual clauses.
Hello Dr. Lawyer.
Things are progressing down here and I still don't think we clearly understand what you are saying. You keep referring to a 3rd party introduction. I honestly do not feel this took place and I do think that if I claim 3rd party introduction ( as in passing of details to a third party), they will be able to go to the other agencies and provide proof the candidates contacted them through normal recruitment channels. Just so that you know, my client paid full fees to agencies for the introductions of the candidates I'm claiming on.
I feel, my only case here is to argue " I sent their details to you first, you acknowledged receipt, we are contractually in business together, and as such you are legally obliged to owe us a fee for their employment as per our terms "
i.e. "regardless if I was the one who you decided to set the interviews up through, either by choice or by mistake "
If I claim. " I showed you Candidate details, you passed them on to a 3rd party, you hired through that 3rd party,, etc.." they will probably laugh at me, pretty easily disprove that statement and say "case closed", we owe you nothing.
Their FD sent me an email today, based on my claims that I got most recent candidate over to you 1st. He is saying that even the most recent hire was for a different role!? ( which is b.s.) .
He stated "obviously there has been some confusion here, we would like to continue working with you int he future, "without prejudice" would like to offer you £1,000 as a final settlement on this matter"
I have not brought the hire from 2009 into the picture yet.
*** I'm feeling the need to restate my 2 legal questions to you, as your legal experience is being relied upon with regards XXXXX XXXXX far we take this ***
1. Can I legally chase after a fee on 1 or Both candidates based on the fact that I sent over the candidate details first and had acknowlegement of receipt of those candidate details from a director of their company? I.E. Claim a fee solely on the back of 'I introduced their details first' ?
2. If "they argue / or can prove the candidates were hired for different roles, or by different companies within their small open plan office".. both within 6 weeks of me 1st introducing them - Will it cause serious problems for my claim/legal case?
As such should i take a negotiated offer or stick to my guns for the full amount(s)?
please call if you need to
01628 407 422
Here is a copy of the email I received from their FD this a.m.
** Without Prejudice **
Further to our conversation and your emails, I have reviewed the correspondence and the sequence of events.
It appears there has been some confusion over the last 12 months. The correspondence from James in 2009 related to a previous Account Manager recruitment which was concluded in early 2010. We did not commence the formal recruitment of a second Account manager (Caroline) until May 2010. Any other discussions with James in early 2010 were entirely speculative.
We recognise that there have been misunderstandings, but believe that both parties have acted in good faith. We are also putting in place procedures to ensure that future recruitment is managed by just one person at Works Unit. We only wish to use two or three agencies going forward, and this should ensure that any phone calls from you are appropriately handled (i.e. separated from the cold calls).
We would like to be able to work with you in the future and therefore we are prepared to offer Go Partnership Ltd the sum of £1,000 (one thousand pounds) in full and final settlement of this matter. I look forward to receiving your acceptance in due course.
I will come back to you on this a little later tonight. Sorry for the delay (I was not on Just Answer at the weekend and have been at work today).
Really sorry for the delay in coming back to you.
If you introduced the candidates to WorksUnit and they engaged the candidates (regardless of whether another agency also introduced them) you are entitled in my view to a fee.
If you introduced a candidate and the candidate was introduced by the company to a third party then you are going to be entitled to a fee in accordance with this clause "6. An introduction is strictly confidential. If the breach of this confidentiality by the Client results in the appointment of a candidate by any third party the Client shall pay the full fee to which GO would have been entitled in accordance with clause 9 or our terms."
If they can show that it was another company within the same office recruited and it was not them that introduced the candidate to the other company (which is the logical case if they are in the same office) but rather a recruitment agent then you may fail on that head of claim.
Hopefully all is clear now. Regards
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