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Howard
Howard, Immigration Lawyer
Category: UK Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 459
Experience:  Senior Partner with nearly 20 years experience in UK Immigration Law.
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Hi my wife and I are EEA nationals (I am Italian, and she is

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Hi my wife and I are EEA nationals (I am Italian, and she is Cypriot). We have been studying and working in the UK continuously since September 2007 and we have recently bought a house here (June 2013).

Our first child was born in the UK on 25/7/2013. Is he automatically entitled to UK citizenship? I read in the MN1 form guide that 'a child born in the UK to parents one or both of whom are... settled in he UK at the time the child is born... is automatically a British citizen otherwise than by descent and does not need to be registered'; and that 'to be settled, the parent(s) must be free from immigration conditions, which I think we are...

If he is not automatically entitled to UK citizenship, should I then apply to register the child as a British citizen through Form MN1 of the UK Border Agency? If I should, could you please help me to understand what I should answer when the form asks to specify the date when the child was given indefinite leave to enter/remain in the UK (question 1.3), and the date when myself and my wife have become 'settled' in the UK (questions 1.27 and 1.36)?

At the moment the baby is without any nationality. I applied with the Italian government for the child to be given an Italian nationality by descent, but did not receive any answer as yet. I take that dual Italian and British nationality is possible is it not? What about triple nationality (Italian, British, Cypriot)?

Thank you very much for your help in advance.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Immigration Law
Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
Cyprus and Italy both allow other nationality to be obtained.

As you have correctly stated, children born to parent(s) settled in the UK or holding British Citizenship are entitled to be registered as British Citizens other than by Descent.

You are considered to be settled once you have completed 5 years in the UK exercising treaty rights and therefore your child can submit an application using the form that you have mentioned. I would usually recommend that you get formal recognition of your status first by applying for a document certifying permanent residence, although you will shortly be able to apply for Citizenship if you wish to do so without first getting a document certifying permanent residence.

With regard to question 1.3, it asks to provide a date IF or when, therefore this does not apply as the IF condition is not met.

1.27 and 1.36 would be a date 5 years after you first started exercising your treaty rights in the UK. As you have not obtained a document certifying permanent residence you would need to evidence that you meet this requirement in this application, meaning that you need to evidence the full period of work/study to confirm that you should be considered settled. This is why I mentioned earlier that it can be useful to get your status sorted out first as this then simplifies your child's application. Your application would be relatively cheap and so it is worth doing it first to ensure your child's application is simplified.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


thanks for this. Could you please advice on how I should certify our permanent residence status exactly? Is there some form I should apply to? Where do I find it?


 


So do we become 'settled' 5 years after we first started studying or working in the UK? In our case, that would be 5 years after September 2007, when we started out M.Sc. course in a UK university. Is that correct?


 


So if I understand the child is not automatically entitled to citizenship but I will need to apply through this form and pay relevant fees of £653?


 


Also could you please confirm that a potential triple citizenship is possible in this case?

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
After 5 years you are considered settled (Permanent Residence) and you can apply for a document to confirm this. After 6 years you can apply for Citizenship regardless of having obtained the document to confirm Permanent Residence.

Please see the following page for information regarding apply for a document certifying Permanent Residence:

http://bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/documents-eea-nationals/applying/

Shortly you can apply for Citizenship and the above is not required to do this:

http://bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/applying/applicationtypes/naturalisation/

The child is entitled to Citizenship if born in the UK and if the parent(s) are settled or are Citizens at the time of the application (not necessarily at the time of the child's birth).

I hope the above is clear but please feel free to ask further questions if not and remember to rate the service that I have provided to you.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


is the child AUTOMATICALLY a british citizen or should I complete the MN1 form and pay the relevant fees in order to apply for it? Of course, after I obtain documents certifying we are permanent residents or settled.


 


Could you finally comment on the possibility of a triple citizenships?


 


Thanks


 

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi


 


is the child AUTOMATICALLY a british citizen or should I complete the MN1 form and pay the relevant fees in order to apply for it? Of course, after I obtain documents certifying we are permanent residents or settled.


 


Could you please also specify whether I need to apply for a registration certificate (form EEA1) or for a permanent residence certificate (form EEA3)?


 


Could you finally comment on the possibility of a triple citizenships?


 


Thanks


 

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
Cyprus and Italy do not object to additional nationality. The UK is the same. Dual-nationality is a phrase often used but you can have as many as you want subject to each country allowing you to hold another nationality.

Technically you are settled in the UK and the child is therefore entitled to British Citizenship BUT what proof would there be of this in the future? This is along the same lines as the advice from the Home Office that you do not HAVE to apply for Permanent Residence or a Residence card but it might simplify matters if you do so.

Once you have done one of the above I recommend that you then get the child Naturalised as a British Citizen.

You can apply for a document confirming Permanent Residence using EEA3 or just apply immediately for Citizenship once you have completed 6 years and can evidence this.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi, after I apply for a Permanent Residence using EEA3, I would really like to understand whether it is necessary for the child to apply for a British Nationality using the MN1 form or is he AUTOMATICALLY entitled to the nationality (without application)?


 


You see, the difference between applying with the MN1 form and not formally applying is a fee of almost £700, so if I can avoid this, I would gladly do so... Could you please clarify this crucial point?


 


S.

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
It is not automatic and the child does need to be registered as a British Citizen as when the child was born you were not a British Citizen and therefore could not pass this on to the child.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I was not British citizen when I was born but was not I 'settled'?


 


I quote again:


 


I read in the MN1 form guide that 'a child born in the UK to parents one or both of whom are... settled in he UK at the time the child is born... is AUTOMATICALLY a British citizen otherwise than by descent and DOES NOT NEED to be registered'; and that 'to be settled, the parent(s) must be free from immigration conditions, which I think we are...

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
Ah, I see what you mean - you had already been here for over 5 years when the child was born. For some reason I was thinking it was just under 5 years. The difficulty might come when applying for a passport as you need to demonstrate that you were settled when the child was born but you do not have a document confirming settlement at the time of the child's birth.

Confirmation can be found in the 'child of EEA parents' section of the following page:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/britishcitizenship/othernationality/Britishcitizenship/borninukorqualifyingterritory/

When the passport application is made it would be a good idea to ensure that you clearly demonstrate that you were settled (automatically entitled to Permanent Residence status) at the time of birth. I would also be inclined to include evidence that being in the UK exercising treaty rights for 5 years entitles you to this status automatically. I would not be surprised to find the Passport Office make a mistake with this.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes we first came to this country exercising EEA rights (study and work) in September 2007, which would mean that in July 2013 (when he was born) it was nearly 6 years after. So he should be AUTOMATICALLY a British citizen should he not? And I don't need to spend nearly £700 for an application to register him, if I understand?


 


OK So let me get this straight. Now I do the following:


 


1) application for a document certifying permanent residence (EEA3) for myself and my wife. Should I include my baby son as well here (in section 2 - family member to include in your application)?


 


2) after, I do not need to apply to register my son through from MN1 (spending nearly £700), but I should ask directly for the issuing of a British passport for him. Is this correct? How do I do this? Is there any forms or web addresses?


 


When I apply for his passport, I will make sure to include the declaration that we all were settled (i.e. were living here for more than 5 years) when my child was born, and remind them of the law which makes my son AUTOMATICALLY a British citizen. Is this correct?


 


But apart from the passport should he not be included now in some official registry of British citizens? How do you do this?

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
The child should have already been registered as born in the UK. You will have been given a birth certificate.

Your child should automatically be a British Citizen as you were automatically considered settled at the time of the child's birth. This needs to be evidenced when applying for the passport.

You should not include your child in the EEA3 application - this is for Permanent Residence, whereas you want your child to be registered as a British Citizen.

Please see page 4 of the following document that provides guidance for issuing British Passports:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/118545/treaty-rights.pdf

This not only confirms the basis for Citizenship but also makes clear what they need to see in order to confirm you were settled and thus issue a British Passport to your child.

With regard to getting the passport, please see the following page:

https://www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport/your-childs-first-passport
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I registered him as born in the UK and I was given a birth certificate but at the time the registrar told me that only if one of the two parents was British he could have got a British citizenship. How can I check that he has been registered as holder of a British citizenship? or will he obtain a citizenship only when he gets a British passport?


 


Also, in the link you suggested, there is a long list of possible evidences


they require in order to prove the child has automatic british citizenship. I am not sure I get what they mean by all of this...


 


• Passport showing ILR/ILE, NTL, Document Certifying Permanent
Residence or Permanent Residence Card issued before the child’s
birth; or
• Letter from UKBA showing that the parent(s) had ILR/ILE or NTL in the
UK before the child’s birth; or
• Passport/document showing a Residence Permit, Residence Card or
Registration Certificate issued five years before the child’s birth and a
letter confirming that the parent(s) were not receiving benefits or any of
the following items;
• Statement from DWP showing yearly totals of credited National
Insurance between the relevant dates;
• Statement from HMRC confirming tax returns between the relevant
dates;
• Letter from an employer or some other documents (such as pay slips
and bank statements) showing evidence of employment between the
relevant dates.


 


I guess we should provide them with only ONE of these documents, or all of them? And should the document certifying permanent residence (EEA3 application) be good enough? Should it be backed up by any other document or statement? I am not sure of this at the moment.


 


Thanks


Stefano

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
The child will not have been registered as British - you just need to apply for a passport with the birth certificate and evidence that you were (automatically) settled at the time of the child's birth. The passport will confirm Citizenship and the birth certificate will effectively confirm that this is Citizenship other than by descent (by birth). The registrar was not quite correct - as you know a child is entitled to British Citizenship if the parent is British or settled when the child is born.

If you get Permanent Residence and it states the date on which you were entitled to this as being before your child's birth then you include that document. If it does not state this but simply states Permanent Residence from the date the document was issued, which is almost certain to be the case, or you want to get your child's passport before you get PR, then you need to evidence in the passport application that you had been exercising treaty rights in the UK for 5 years prior to the date of birth of the child and that you were therefore settled at the time of the child's birth. This is where they are referring to employer letters.

So, I would apply for the passport and include the child's birth certificate and as much documentation as you can to demonstrate that you had already been in the UK exercising treaty rights for the required 5-year period before the child's date of birth. Suitable evidence can include letters from educational establishments confirming periods of study, employer letters confirming periods of employment, payslips, P60/P45 documents, etc. A letter from you confirming that you have at no time spent more than 6 months outside the UK (or listing exact details of absences) would not hurt matters.

I hope the above is clear.

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
I should also add that having proof of being settled (exercising 5 years treaty rights prior to the date of birth) might have been useful when registering the birth of the child. I have no idea whether or not the registrar can do this retrospectively - they might be unwilling to make a judgement regarding a parent's status in the UK and this is yet another reason why it is always a good idea to get the document certifying permanent residence immediately rather than relying on the automatic acquisition of Permanent Residence.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Having proof of being settled when registering the birth of the child might have been useful, you say? Why is that? in the full birth certificate they issued they only detail name of child, and parents and place of birth of child and parents. Nowhere it seems to say whether child and parents are British, EEA nationals or otherwise... Are you suggesting that they can register a child as British in their records and this has not been done? So should I contact the registrar again rather than applying for a passport now?

Expert:  Howard replied 1 year ago.
You might like to contact the registrar just to ask if this makes any difference - that you can demonstrate you were settled at the time of birth - it might not make a difference.

If you can evidence that you had exercised treaty rights for 5 years prior to the birth of your child then the child's passport application can be submitted with that evidence - there is no particular need to delay and the passport office are capable of dealing with this.

I would appreciate your rating being provided as I have provided a lot of information and I have answered your question. This would not stop you asking further questions although I cannot think what further information might be required.
Howard, Immigration Lawyer
Satisfied Customers: 459
Experience: Senior Partner with nearly 20 years experience in UK Immigration Law.
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