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Thomas
Thomas, Solicitor
Category: UK Immigration Law
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Experience:  BA (Hons), PgDip, Practising Solicitor
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Please could someone help us. My Ukrainian fiancé and I are

Customer Question

Please could someone help us. My Ukrainian fiancé and I are wanting to apply for a visa, it’s not quite a straight forward affair. We have complications, ordinarily we would apply without help, but we think it would be almost certainly refused, the reasons I will explain. I will explain her history first of all; she applied for a visitors visa in 2011, she visited a friend and her friends husband who live near London, but she did have a boyfriend who lives here, who is a British national. She initially said in her application that she was staying for about 10 days with her friend, and they were responsible for her keeping, she had a job as a self employed English tutor back home in Ukraine. However, she stayed with her friend only a short while and then actually stayed the length of her visa (6months) and went home again, she didn’t overstay the expiry date of her visa. She applied again in april/May 2012, but this time for a marriage visa with the person she stayed with in 2011. This she also got no problem, by this time she had a full-time job in her city in Ukraine, but had to give it up, as she was planning on settling here in the UK. Unfortunately, her fiancé was having doubts about the marriage, and an argument ended in the relationship ending, and after only a week, she was back in Ukraine. She met me online in August (she left the UK in June) We got on extremely well, talked on Skype, sent emails, texts etc.. Then, in October, she came to visit me, she stayed with me for 12 days, but she came back on her marriage visa, again, she left before it was out of date (December). We decided to apply for a visitor visa, as it would seem maybe strange to apply for another marriage/fiancé visa so soon after her relationship ended. So, January she applied for one and was promptly refused, on the grounds that she had had a marriage visa before, had no job (she terminated it when she came over in June, and couldn’t find another) and she had no “ties” to return to Ukraine. They told her that she had been refused because of this and that they didn’t think she would return in her stated period of time. Now, she didn’t mention me when she made the application, because she didn’t want to be thought of as a “scammer”. Well, we have an option of marrying in Ukraine, which we aren’t too keen on, because then we would be married and separated miles apart until who knows when, and it would seem rushed without living with each other for a trial period, so to speak. Or, we could apply for a fiancé/marriage visa, which would be more favourable.
As you can see, we have a problem, and we don’t have money to throw away on visa’s that will be refused and then an appeal and expensive solicitors. we’re worried about repercussions about her coming over on a marriage visa to see someone else, when she should have surrendered her visa as per ukba conditions, the fact that she is applying to stay with another man after having a marriage visa before, looks like she is only interested in settling in the UK and “anyone will do”, but this is far from the truth, she had bad luck with someone previously and is now distressed, because she has met someone else who she genuinely wants to be with. “She” ended her previous relationship, she hasn’t overstayed her visa’s, and she’s been here three times and gone home each time, on time. I have a very difficult tight work schedule, I only have a limited amount of time allowed off work, I’ve already been to stay with her twice, once in March for one week and again in April for 11 days. She has to catch an overnight train from her city for 14 hours to Kiev (she also has to do this, just to go to the embassy with her application every time) , where I meet her and we stay in an apartment together. We are so frustrated at the prospect of applying and being refused, we just want to get started with our new life together. I have a job that pays over the stated minimum for supporting us both, I own a house, with enough room for us both, I seem to meet the requirements needed. Please can you help with any advice, and/or point us to someone who can help us with the application who is reputable and doesn’t cost the earth if need be?
I’m not sure if its relevant, but I have ccj, however it was paid in full, but will still be on record, would this be a problem. She noticed some new ridiculous requirements yesterday, stating “your relationship must be genuine and subsisting”: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/can-you-apply/genuine/
Why do they think we’re applying for a fiancé visa in the first place?? How can we possibly meet these requirements?

Thank you very much, I’m so sorry to bore you to death with such a long detailed account!!

Sincerely,
Paul and Val
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Immigration Law
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi

What documentary evidence do you have of your relationship?

Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

We have text messages, emails,skype calls, social networking messages (not facebook, but similar) phone bill. Most will have to have screenshots taken off the computer and printed (including texts, as the majority are sent via fishtext, due to high volume) with the exception of occasional phone calls. we have photos together from both of my trips to Ukraine, and some from when she was here in the UK in October, although, this is also a worry because she was supposed to be with her ex at this time, and not me, so maybe this would not be admissible for fear of visa violations (also, most of the above goes back to August last year) I also have online ticket purchases for all flights. I have however lost the receipt for the engagement ring.


Thanks,


Paul

Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply.

When you refer to the "marriage visa" that she previously had was this a "marriage visitor's" visa (ie. to visit and marry here) or a "fiance visa" like the one you wish to apply for now?

What dates (apporximately) did it last from and to?

When did she break up with her previous partner?

When did she meet you?

Kind regards,


Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.



Hi thanks for getting back to me,


Well, the visa she said she applied for was a marriage visa, she insisted that this was a settlement visa, as opposed to the fiancé visa, where she said that one (the fiancé visa) was for visiting and marrying here. Looking at the ukba website, it all looks a bit confusing.


As I stated in the initial query, she had the marriage visa from June (applied in May) until the 4thh of December 2012. She broke up with her previous partner in the first month of the visa, when she came over in june, she stayed 1 week and went back to Ukraine, but neither of them informed the BA the relationship was over, and in October she came to visit me after meeting on a social networking site in August.


Paul

Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi Paul,

Drafting your answer now. 5 mins or so.

Tom
Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
fHi

Thanks for your patience.

As you have acknowledged, having previously obtained a visa to the UK on the basis of a proposed marriage and then leaving so soon after coming is not a great place to start.

This means that there is probably more of an onus on you both to produce evidence that your relationship is a genuine one. Obviously, because you have been living in different countries you are frustrated from building up the sort of documentary evidence that a couple that are living together would.

This means that you must substantiate the contact that you have had already. My advice would be to attempt to build up a chronology starting from when you first met and noting the evolution of the relationship in a time line. Once you have this you should collect as much of the documentary evidence that you have referred to in your above reply.

The photos are going to play a big part here and you have to describe in detail the trips that you made when the photos were taken.

Once you have built up the timeline right up until the present date you then have to give as much detail as you can about the wedding that you propose for her to get a fiancé visa for. It’s unfortunate that you have lost the receipt for you ring. I would attempt to contact the place where you bought it and see if they can trace the sale and possibly issue you with either a further invoice or possibly a letter confirming your bought it.

The usual things that people use to evidence an upcoming wedding are things like booking of a venue, wedding invites to peoples.

Once you have the time line and the items which prove you are to marry the best thing you can do is each execute sworn statements confirming the time line and plans for marriage. A sworn statement carries much more weight than a simple letter. The statement would refer to the documentary evidence (exhibited in the statement) that you are able pull together and then annex them to the statement.

You should each explain in the statements that you are frustrated from building up the same evidential profile that persons who are able to live together are and that the fact that you have had to live in different counties limits the amount of documentary evidence.

They may have concerns, but I would expect that if you are able to do the above then they will most likely both invite you in for interviews so that you can corroborate eachother and show in person that the relationship is genuine. Doubtless the relationship is genuine and this tends to come through in person without you even realising it.

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Kind regards,


Tom
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks very much for the answer Tom, it's much appreciated, however there are a couple things we'd like to ask, after consulting Val, she would like to know the following:


 




Would it be a problem to “come clean” so to speak, about her actually visiting me on the visa meant for her ex, as it states that there is a necessity to tell the ukba that the relationship has ended, and that once the relationship has ended, she must leave the country immediately and NOT return to see someone else, as she clearly did. She’s concerned that this will prompt a refusal and even being banned from entering the country due to violating the terms of her previous visa.


Also, when she applied for the visitors visa earlier this year, she did not mention me, would it be picked up, I mean a problem in our application? She’s also concerned that, upon arriving in the UK, she told customs that her purpose of visit was “marriage”, would this be noted by the ukba, and would they use that against us?


She stated that when she came to see me in October that she actually stayed with her ex, in his town, she wonders how to explain this if they interview her and bring it up.



Thanks so much,


Paul

Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi

I will answer at 11,

Tom
Thomas, Solicitor
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Experience: BA (Hons), PgDip, Practising Solicitor
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Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi Tom,


Thank you very much for your answers.


Does this mean that we have a good chance if we tell the whole story about violating previous? Also, we can also supply screenshots of a couple of emails from her ex, admitting being wrong, all be it short, but still, it would be something, would these be admissible/helpful?


Thank you


Paul

Expert:  Thomas replied 1 year ago.
Hi

I will answer at 9 a m

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