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UK_Lawyer
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Category: UK Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience:  I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
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FOR UK LAWYER. I would like to dicsuss the details of a recently refus

Customer Question

FOR UK LAWYER.
I would like to dicsuss the details of a recently refused entry clerance application, under paragraph 320 (7B). Which is as follows:
Along with the application, a sponsor letter was submitted, with the relevant bank statement etc And the officer mentions in the decision letter that 'no documentaion relating to your own personal and financial circumstances in the country from which the application was made from' and 'the onus is on you to qualify for entry clerance based on your own circumstances and your own intentions' What do they mean by 'evidence of personal and financial circumstances', please? It was only for a visit visa and all the necessary bank statements (sponsored by a family member) were submitted. If the applicant has recently completed higher education and has no full-time unemployment at the moment, why are they penalising the applicant? Thanks

Also, could you kindly outline the steps required to appeal against the decision? And how long after the decision has been made can a person appeal? Thanks.

Kind regards.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Immigration Law
Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Hi thank you for your question. Please remember to RATE my answer OK SERVICE, GOOD SERVICE OR EXCELLENT SERVICE so I can get credited for my time.

1. What they mean by this is that although the applicant is being sponsored by the sponsor, they still want the applicant to provide his their bank statements and provide evidence to the immigration officer of what income the applicant has going to their bank account if any. Because the visa is being applied for by the applicant they want to see the applicant's financial background and any money they may have.

2. Although you are correct in stating that the immigration officer should not penalise the applicant as he is being sponsored by the sponsor, the view the immigration officer has taken is that as he has just finished his education he may want to come to the UK on a visit visa and then try and obtain employment and not return to his home country.

In respect of visa visas the applicant must show strong enough reasons for wanting to return to their home country. There applicant's usually show evidence of their employment or education which is continuing, or evidence of their child, husband or wife ,mother father who are still in their home country and they will want to return home based on this connection. They want to ensure that the applicant provides enough evidence of the strong connections to their home country so they do not overstay their visa.

If the applicant has never breached immigration rules in any country and has never committed a criminal offence this should be mentioned to help their application. In addition if the applicant does have plans to return to their home country and start working etc this should also be mentioned.

3. In respect of an appeal if any right of appeal this given this should be attached to the refusal letter, if there is no mention of a right of appeal then you are unable to appeal the decision and are required to reapply.

Should you not want to reapply then you may right a letter to the immigration officer at the address the decision was made attaching any additional documentation and asking then to reconsider their decision and put forward the reasons why. This should be done as soon as possible. There is no fee for this service and the process usually takes between 2 - 3 months.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regards
Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi. Thank you for your inputs. I have a few more queries to clarify with regards XXXXX XXXXX above question, please:

1) Do you mean that the applicant must provide evidence of bank statements etc even if there's no or very little funds in their account?

2)How can an applicant prove that their mother, relatives etc are residing in their home country and hence has ties leading to their home country? I.e. what documentation is needed to prove that? Thanks

3) Will switching into a different immigration category make a difference to a refusal made under paragraph 320 (7B)?

4) Why is the duration 12 months during which any application could face automatic refusal?

Finally,



5) Is an EEA family permit independent of a refused Visit clearance (one which has been refused under paragraph 320 (7B) ) I.e. can someone who's been refused under paragraph 320 (7B) be allowed to apply for an EEA permit, given that they're eligible to do so? Thanks.

Thanks for your response in advance.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes, although you are sponsoring the applicant, they must provide evidence of what funds they have and then state that as she is unable to afford a ticket to the UK that is why you are sponsoring the applicant.

2. You can provide, letters in the family names, passport copies etc or letters from friends and family stating they are currently resident in her home country.

3. No it will not as they will still have a record of her application being refused. It does seem like she has been refused and then subsequently banned from the UK for a period of time. I would therefore suggest that firstly she tries to overturn this decision. She should therefore gather all the documentary evidence and send a letter of reconsideration to the immigration officer (name and address can be found at the start and end of the refusal letter) stating reasons why the applicant believe the refusal was unjust.

4. If an applicant falls to be refused under 320(7B), applications must be refused for the following periods:

• 12 months if they left the UK voluntarily, not at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State;
• 2 years if they left the UK voluntarily, at the expense (directly or indirectly) of the Secretary of State, more than 2 years ago; and the date the person left the UK was no more than 6 months after the date on which the person was given notice of the removal decision, or no more than 6 months after the date on which the person no longer had a pending appeal; whichever is the later
• 5 years if they left UK voluntarily, at public expense;
• 5 years if they were removed from the UK as a condition of a caution issued in accordance with s.134 Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012
• 10 years if they were removed or deported from the UK;
• 10 years if they practiced deception (which includes using false documentation) in support of a previous visa application

5. Under paragraph A320 of the Immigration Rules, the immigration officer will not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if the applicant is applying in the following categories:

Spouse, civil partner, unmarried or same-sex partner (Paragraphs 281 or 295A); Fiancé(e), or proposed civil partner (Paragraph 290); Parent, grandparent or other dependant relative (Paragraph 317); Spouse, civil partner, or unmarried or same-sex partner of a refugee or person with humanitarian protection (paragraphs 352A, AA, FA, FD); Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (paragraph 246); They were under the age of 18 at the time of the most recent breach of the UK's immigration laws.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regard
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi there. Thank you for your last responses. I would like to ask a further follow up question, please.

If an applicant has been refused a UK visit visa under Paragraph 320 (7B), can he or she then apply for a Fiance visa before the expiry of the 12 month ban period?

And if so, what documents are required for a Fiance visa? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes in your case this will have an effect on your next application and it would eliminate the ban.

Under paragraph A320 of the Immigration Rules, the UKBA will not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying in the following categories:

• Spouse, civil partner, unmarried or same-sex partner (Paragraphs 281 or 295A);
• Fiancé(e), or proposed civil partner (Paragraph 290);
• Parent, grandparent or other dependant relative (Paragraph 317);
• Spouse, civil partner, or unmarried or same-sex partner of a refugee or person with humanitarian protection (paragraphs 352A, AA, FA, FD);
• Those applying to exercise rights of access to a child (paragraph 246);
• They were under the age of 18 at the time of the most recent breach of the UK's immigration laws.
As concessions outside the Rules, the UKBA will also not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:
• the applicant has been accepted by UKBA as a victim of trafficking
• the applicant was in the UK illegally on or after 17 March 2008 and left the UK voluntarily before 1 October 2008

In addition the UKBA will not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:

• false documents or false representations were used in a previous visa or leave to enter or remain application, and the applicant was not aware that the documents or representations were false;
• the period specified for automatically refusing applications has expired; or
• following their breach of UK immigration laws, UKBA issued a visa or leave to enter or remain in the knowledge of that breach, for example, a student who has overstayed but was granted LTE following an out of time application

In regards XXXXX XXXXX fiancé visa you would need to apply using the following link :

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/fiancee-proposed-cp/apply-visa/

You would need to provide documentation for evidencing that the marriage will take place in the uk, wedding arrangements, the sponsor would need to provide evidence of earning at least 18600 gross, evidence of accommodation , evidence of your relationship thus far ie emails, Skype conversations telephone calls.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Can you please clarify why switching into a Fiance visa category would eliminate/lift the 12 month ban, whilst switching into a student visa Tier 4 category wouldn't have the same effect?

The sponsor is an EU national from Portugal, who has resided in the UK for a substantial period of time. What documents would he need to provide on his behalf for the marriage to take place? Would he need a birth certificate?

And is the18,600 per annum? Which authority needs to obtain the marriage certificate, after it has taken place? (e.g. Home Office?)

But in order to book the wedding at the registry office, both parties need to attend an appointment with the registrar, so how could that be possible, whilst the applicant is facing a 12 month ban to the UK? (now 8 and a half months left)

What documents does the non EU (Middle East) applicant need? Could you kindly list them? Thanks.

Finally, how long is the processing time for the UK Fiance visa?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. This is because, the Human Rights Act element is applicable. Due to the Human Rights act individuals have an automatic right to private and family life in the UK. When you will be arriving to the UK for the purpose of marriage and to start a family then the UK can not prevent you from doing that and any sort of hinderence to you in applying would mean the UK is not undertaken the very duty under the Human Rights Act.

2. The sponsor would need to provide, his ID/passport , evidence that he is able to maintain the applicant upon their arrival ie bank statements for the last 3 -6 months, evidence that he is working, studying in the UK.

3. If the applicant is making an application for on behalf of their relationship with an EU national then the £18,600 salary threshold does not apply. It only applies if the applicant is marrying a British citizen. If you want to marry an EU citizen in the UK the you would not apply for a fiancee visa would you would need to apply as a person in a durable relationship with an eu national, please see following:

Fiancé(e)s and proposed civil partners are not recognised as family members or extended family members in the EEA Regulations unless they can show they are in durable relationship. However, provisions have been made for fiancé (e)s and proposed civil partners of EEA nationals paragraph 290 of the Immigration Rules. Fiancé(e)s and proposed civil partners of EEA nationals applying under these Rules will have to pay the usual fee. For the purposes paragraph 290 of the Immigration Rules, an EEA national who is a qualified person in the UK is considered as present and settled if they have permanent residence as set out under schedule 2 of the EEA Regulations.

An application as the fiancé / proposed civil partner of an EEA national can only be considered if the specified fee has been paid. This is because you will need to assess the application under the Immigration Rules and not the EEA Regulations. An applicant who does not qualify for an EEA family permit can only be considered against the Immigration rules once the specified fee is paid. Regulation 31 of the Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2009 clearly says that if an application to be assessed under the Immigration Rules is not accompanied by the specified fee, the application is not validly made.

Example: The fiancée of an EEA national working in the UK applies for an EEA family permit, free of charge. She does not qualify under the EEA Regulations and has not paid the specified fee to be considered under paragraph 290 of the Immigration Rules. There is therefore no valid application before the ECO. In this instance the ECO should refuse and first address why the applicant did not meet the EEA Regulations. Reference should then be made to Regulation 31 of the Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2009.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucitizens/eea-family-permit/applying/

After marriage the certificate would need to be sent to the home office.

4. When you apply as a person who is in a durable relationship with an eea national the ban will not effect you.

5. You would need to provide evidence of:
1. Evidence of relationship ie email, skype, telephone calls
2. Photographs of your relationship
3. You passport
4. Bank statements
5. Educational certificates, if any

6. Depending on how busy the embassy in the applicants country is usually between 4 - 12 weeks.

I hope this answers your question, if so kindly rate my answer positively. If however, you feel that the answer does not cover all the points raised in your question, please DO NOT rate my answer negatively, I will be happy to answer further question until you are satisfied with my answer.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your detailed reply.

1)Can you please explain the paragraphs you outline in Point 3 in Layman's terms? Thanks.

2)Also, could you kindly confirm whether or not there is a fee, as when I click the link, it mentions that there is a fee on the site and states that the EEA family permit is free of charge, whilst you mention that you have to pay, so could you please clarify what you mean? Thanks

3)How long is the EEA family permit valid for, please? And would it be a Visa in the non EU applicant's passport (just like a normal visa stamp?)
Plus, would that change after the non EU applicant decides to apply for an EEA residence card?
In addition, does the application for the EEA residence card have to be submitted well in advance, before the expiry of the current EEA family permit (once the EEA family permit has been issued, of course)

4)Moreover, the non EU applicant is applying from Kuwait, would she have to apply in person via a UK visa application center, after completing the application online and printing it off?

5)Finally, if the non EU applicant is currently not employed
(taking a gap year) would she still have to provide bank statements, even if she's not earning a fixed rate salary? Would a bank statement produced 28 days after the funds have been in the account, prior to applying, be sufficient? And she will be relying on a family member as a sponsor (financial, maintenance costs etc), thus would she need to provide a sponsor letter and bank statements for the sponsor? Thanks
However, since the non EU applicant is getting married to the EEA national, would the EEA national be the sole sponsor for then entire application? Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What this means is that under EEA regulations there is not actual concept for a fiancee or a unmarried partner. So any person who is in this kind of a relationship with an EEA national will need to make an application as being in a durable relationship.

Therefore, you would need to submit the application and pay the fees to be granted entry clearance in this category.

2. Fees are usually charged if you are not an actual family member of the EEA national. Therefore to cover the fact that the concept of being a fiance/unmarried partner under the EEA regulation as fee is levied for the application. You may wish to call the local British embassy for further information in respect of fees.

3. The eea family permit from outside of the UK is granted for 6 months, this will be stamp on your passport. Prior to the expiry of the 6 months eea family permit you must apply for an EEA residence permit which will be issued for 5 years.

4. Yes applicants from abroad would need to submit the application in person. Please see the following website: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/countries/kuwait/?langname=UK%20English

5. The sponsor does not need to be working, she would need to be exercising treaty rights in the UK, this can be through employment, studying, or being self-sufficient ie being being supported by a third party (parents , spouse etc). Evidence of funds in the form of bank statements must be provided to show that the parties will be able to maintain themselves in the UK.

I hope this answers your question, if so kindly rate my answer positively. If however, you feel that the answer does not cover all the points raised in your question, please DO NOT rate my answer negatively, I will be happy to answer further question until you are satisfied with my answer.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask you with regards XXXXX XXXXX UK fiance visa. If my sponsor's last wage slip is dated on the 15th of June 2013 and is issued once every month, hence is valid till the end of June 2013, when the UKBA mentions that the wage slips/bank statements have to be dated no more than 28 days prior to submission, what do they mean by this? I.e. what's the latest I can apply if the last wage slip was dated on 15th June 2013, please?

And does the UKBA count the day when an applicant applies and pays the application fees at the visa application centre as DAY 1, or when the application reaches them as DAY 1, if that makes sense please?

Furthermore, the working days in the country in which I'm applying are Sun-Thurs, so if I apply on 11th July 2013, which is a Thurs and pay the fees, do the biometrics etc, will it be considered late by the UKBA, if say for e.g. the application reaches them on 14th July 2013, as I'm not sure how these things work i.e. whether or not my application is forwarded the same day, if I was to apply first thing in the morning. Could you kindly explain this? Thank you.



Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. In respect of the payslips if they are dated 15 June then this would be 28 days from that date, therefore this should be sent no more than 12 July. Approx 28 days from 15 June.

2. The date of your application is the date when your application fee is paid to the Home Office. This will be the date shown on your payment receipt, which depends on how you paid for your visa application - for example, at a visa application centre or online.

3. If you pay the fees and apply by 12 July this would be fine in respect of wage slips because the date of the application will be 12 july, regardless what time or day it ends up being processed the fees you have paid and the date on the receipt will be the date taken as the day your application was submitted. If you paid the fees on 12 July your application date will be 12 July.

I hope this clarifies the matter, I hope this answers your question, if so kindly rate my answer positively. If however, you feel that the answer does not cover all the points raised in your question, please DO NOT rate my answer negatively, I will be happy to answer further question until you are satisfied with my answer.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your reply.

But can the latest wage slip issued on 15th June 2013, be relied upon until 28th July 2013, as I presume the wage slip covers the period up to 30th June 2013? So do you count the 28 calendar days from the date on which the wage slip was last issued, i.e. 15th June 2013, or do you count 28 calendar days from 30th June 2013, please?

n.b. working days here are from Sun-Thurs, so the 12th of July wouldn't be possible, since that is a Friday.

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The date is taken from the date the payslip is issued in this case 15 June, what you need to do if there is no chance that the application can be submitted before 12 July is , add a note to the payslips stating that they are issued in the middle of the month and cover the period until the end of June. The fact that the payslip are issued in such a way will need to be explained to the immigration officer hoping he takes it into account.

If this is not possible and you want to ensure that all documents meet the 28 day requirement then do wait until you have July's payslip before applying or apply a few days before the date you have mentioned.

If the above cannot be done then the only option you have remaining is provide a letter from the employer confirming that the payslips are issued in the middle of the month but cover the whole of June. A covering letter explaining the situation would also help your application. They could also verify this by contacting the employer so provided you have explained the situation to the Home office it should not be a problem.

I hope the answers give in regards XXXXX XXXXX question and my previous questions are help and I would be grateful if you can rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

So as long as I apply before 13th July 2013, is it ok to rely on the latest bank statement dated up today's date; 24th June 2013 and the last wage slip dated on 15th June 2013? Thanks.

Otherwise I'd have to wait till my sponsor's next pay date, 15th July 2013 and order subsequent bank statements to show the salary being paid in?
Bank statements usually take up to 7-10 working days.

Why is it that the UKBA can only accept bank statements sent via post, as opposed to printing them and getting them stamped and signed by the manager at the branch etc? It is so frustrating waiting on bank statements...

Next, I've noticed that there will be some new immigration law changes scheduled for July 2013, will this affect the UK fiancee visa in any way? Thanks

Finally, do you have an office based in London, if so do you specialise in immigration law? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes this would be something that you would need to do, submit documents prior to 12 July. You can submit documents such as certified bank statements stamped by the bank , this should be accepted by the home office.

2. The only changes which effect applications from outside the uk are that Tuberculosis screening is now required in more countries including:
China;
Ethiopia;
Gambia;
Hong Kong;
Indonesia;
Macau;
Malawi;
Morocco;
Sierra Leone;
Uganda;
Vietnam; and
Zambia

3. In respect of contact outside of the website, unfortunately we are strictly prohibited from contacting customers, therefore I am unable to assist you outside this website.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

In case that I cannot submit my application before 12th July 2013, do I have wait until my sponsor received the next wage slip (15th July) and then wait on bank statements to arrive, which show the salary being paid in?

How long do UK fiance visas take to process, please? I've been told that they can take up to 12 weeks? Is that the minimum time? Or can it be processed in a much shorter period than this? Thanks.

What happens after I get married in the UK on a UK fiance visa? Can I remain in the UK or do I have to go home. I am planning on marrying an EU national. Can I be eligible for an EEA residence card, which entitles me to travel without restrictions within Europe? Could you kindly clarify this? Thanks.

Kind regards.




Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your question.


1. You should not provide evidence which is not more than 28 days old, if you feel that you will go over this by the time you get your documentation then do wait, it is better to get the evidence right than to submit expired documents.

2. The application process depends on the particular visa application centres, it can take between 6-12 weeks. There no exact amount of time as each visa centre has different processing times.

3. Once you obtained a fiancee visa and married in the uk you would then need to apply for an eea resident permit which will be granted for 5 years, you will be able to travel the eea area with your spouse.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your reply.

I would like to ask, is a digital signature by a barrister (legal submissions) on PDF acceptable by the UKBA, please?

Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Usually it wouldn't be but you will have to give reasons why this is the case. Then the home office will decide if this is sufficient.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

I would like to ask you, that if an applican,t previously refused under paragraph 320 (7B) and was subsequently issued a 12 month period ban, then applies for a UK fiance visa, before the expiry of the 12 month period, will the ban still be intact or will it be eliminated, please?
Please give reasons for why that is the case (if the ban is either applicable or eliminated) Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

In your case if your are apply as a fiancee of a settled person then rule 320 (7B) will not apply. The home office stated the following:

Under paragraph A320 of the Immigration Rules, you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if they are applying for settlement as a family member under Appendix FM but you may consider whether the applicant falls to be refused under the suitability requirements namely S-EC.1.8.

In, addition, as concessions outside the Rules, you should also not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:

• the applicant has been accepted by UKBA as a victim of trafficking (see RFL 5.8)

• the applicant was in the UK illegally on or after 17 March 2008 and left the UK voluntarily before 1 October 2008 (see RFL 5.7)
In addition you must not refuse an applicant under 320(7B) if:

• false documents or false representations were used in a previous visa or leave to enter or remain application, and the applicant was not aware that the documents or representations were false;

• the period specified for automatically refusing applications has expired; or

• following their breach of UK immigration laws, UKBA issued a visa or leave to enter or remain in the knowledge of that breach, for example, a student who has overstayed but was granted LTE following an out of time application.

In addition as you are applying for settlement , the human rights act would also need to be considered by the home office, they would need to weight up whether refusing you would be a breach of you and your partner's right to private and family life.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

I would like to ask what the various UK VAC online status mean, with re to tracking an application.

The status was initially, 'application has been dispatched to the British Embassy', then 'application is under process at British High Commission', then 'application is under assessment at visa section' and only a few days ago, the status was reverted back to 'application is under process at the British High Commission'.

Can you kindly explain what each status means and why a possible reason for the revert in status?

Thanks for your time and inputs in advance.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Relist: Answer came too late.
Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The application being dispatched to the high commission is self explanatory, it means that the application has been sent to the high commission.

2. The application being under process means that an immigration officer is currently reviewing your application.

3. The application being under assessment means that the immigration officer has sent it for a various checks , it could be in relation to bank statements verification , passport verification etc this is sent to a different department to be checked.

4. Once the results of the checks have been sent back to the immigration officer to process the application, he/she will then review the results and either issue or refuse the visa as per results of any investigation.

It may be the case that in come applications checks need to be more thoroughly undertaken , so the status can change or revert back to the old status depending on how complicated an application is.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

Do you know what the next status updates are, after 'application is under process at BHC', please?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

It should be the actual decision either 'application approved/application granted' or 'application refused'. Lets hope in your case its the former.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your quick response.

From my experience, the UKBA does not disclose decisions on the online tracking system, the final status update would be documents/passport are ready for collection from the visa application centre'. Thank you for your positive outlook.

My question is, since the status has been reverted, shouldn't the next step be, the previous one, which was, 'application under assessment at visa section'?

Also, should I be worried, the fact that the status has been reverted (from 'application under assessment at visa section' to 'application is under process at British High Commission'?


Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I do not think you should read too much into the status of your application being reverted back and forth, the fact that the immigration officer can assess an application and then process it thereafter or process an application and have it accessed.

I would not think that a status change or re-change can determine your application. You should just wait for the result and not speculate on the visa status. Every embassy or high commission works differently and therefore you should not read too much into its processes.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you for your advice. Much appreciated.

You are absolutely correct.

Is the British Embassy likely to return all my documents, once a decision has been made, if I have requested for them back and my legal advisor has written a cover letter asking for them back?

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes, in either case whether your application is granted or refused, all your documents should be returned.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Hope this finds you well.

I attended an interview at the British Embassy yesterday and I was made uncomfortable by one of the questions the interviewer asked.

I expected to be quizzed about the contents of my witness statement and to confirm that our relationship is genuine etc but none of the questions I expected came up, instead emphasis was placed on a previous arrest. Result: NFA.

Me and my sponsor meet all the criteria for a fiance visa in terms of eligibility, supporting docs etc, but we didn't declare this crucial info about an altercation which occurred between us, last Autumn, which led to an arrest, but my sponsor dropped the charges later, early this year. Neither of us informed our lawyer about this, as we were saving face, also we did not think it would hold any merit to this application, as the case never even reached the CPS nor the courts.

So the interviewer prompted the following question to me:
'have you ever been arrested', I was almost speechless as I never expected the UKBA to have news of my arrest, if I never got charged etc, so I denied it twice, then at third instance, the interviewer stated that the UKBA have information to prove otherwise, that I was arrested, then I said, if you were referring to the incident in which I didn't get charged, then yes, I handed myself over to the authorities last October and was released on bail the next day, then the case and charges were dropped and the result was: NFA. I also said, that I didn't think the UKBA would take account of arrests which didn't result in charges, his reply was, I should have stated 'yes' at the first instance. I was truly gutted. I didn't use deception, it was an innocent mistake. I should have informed my lawyer, but was too embarrassed. The interviewer also asked me for the nature of the suspected offence, I said domestic violence. Does GBH fall under the same category? (Domestic Violence) The incident did take place on the premises of my flat, at the time.


The other questions which the interviewer asked me was to confirm my name, date of birth and whether I have been married before, which are all straight forward.

I regret not asking him to clarify that question relating to the arrest. I was confused and it was an naive response on my behalf.

I mean given the fact that I meet all the other criteria for a UK fiance entry clearance, would not declaring this fact re my arrest likely to outweigh everything else? I am really frightened.

Why does this matter so much when my sponsor forgave me and is now sponsoring my application for entry clearance as a fiance and wants to get married to me? I admit that I should have declared this info in my witness statement.

My sponsor told me that when he spoke to the DC who dealt with the matter that if he chooses to drop charges, then I could be allowed in to the UK, yet this matter is still pending 6 months later?!

So could you advise me on the likely outcome please? The interviewer mentioned that they will investigate further on the info I've given him and that my visa application is still in process. Would I have a strong case if the my application was to be refused and I would then appeal?

If my application was refused on the basis of not providing this information relating to a previous, would I have been informed of it at the Embassy, there and then? Or they would have to investigate the matter further? I mean, they wouldn't hesitate to inform me that my case was unsuccessful at the Embassy, am I correct in saying that? But what normally happens after a decision has been made is that I will be prompted to collect my documents from the visa application centre rather from the Embassy itself, so perhaps they wouldn't tell me the outcome at the Embassy after all.

Thanks for your inputs in advance.
Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The issue with regards XXXXX XXXXX being arrested is something which the home office would know about because the police do log each arrest even though you were not convicted. The question was have you ever been arrested and the answer was yes you have, this should have been your answer straight away , had the answer been have you ever been convicted or charged then the answer to this would have been no.

I do believe that the question was clear, but the home office could have stated ' have you ever been arrested regardless if you were charged or not' may have been better, but I do not think it is arguable on this point.

In any event you explained to the immigration officer in their 3rd attempt and clarified the matter so the immigration officer has all the means to make a decision in your favor if they wish.

2. Regarding you not giving the correct answer in the first place may put a doubt in the mind of the immigration officer regarding your credibility, what this means is that can they trust you to be truthful and clear with them , not only in regards XXXXX XXXXX visa application but also subsequent applications once you are in the UK. This is what the immigration officer will be considering.

3. Regardless of your sponsor dropping charges, the immigration officer again was testing your credibility and seeing if you may or may not deceive the home office in future applications. They were just asking question to see your character.

4. The arrest should not effect your application, but the reason for your interview was to decide if you are someone who is credible and of good character and should be allowed in the UK. The fact that you didn't mention your arrest in your statement is the reason why your case was being and the reason why you were interviewed.

5. With regards XXXXX XXXXX outcome of your case, you did eventually give the immigration officer the correct information and also explained to him that why you did not disclose it in your statement or when the interview first asked you the question. This is something which the immigration officer will need to consider.

Could you appeal? Yes you can you can appeal on the basis that it would be breach of your human rights not to have the right to marry in the UK and to have a family life in the UK. But you can also mentioned that you gave the immigration officer the reason why you didnt mention the arrest in your statement. All these things will need to be taken into account by the immigration judge.

Again it will all come down to credibility and if the immigration judge believes you. You may be better off marrying in your home country and then applying for a spouse visa instead of a fiancee visa.

6. If your application is refused you should be informed when you pick up your documents, or they may give you the documents and ask you to check yourself. It wouldn't be a long process, you would be asked to pick you documents up from the visa application center usually. But in some cases they may ask you to come to embassy.

I hope the answers give in regards XXXXX XXXXX question and my previous questions are help and I would be grateful if you can rate my answer positively so I can get credited for my time.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your response.

I wasn't aware that the UKBA would know of previous arrests, even though no charges or convictions were made with re to that previous arrest. Now I am aware of that.

I did not mention to the interviewer that the incident involved me and my sponsor, but I'm sure that they can investigate that and find out the full story? Am i correct?

Everything else is in the supporting documents is truthful and consistent.

The interviewer also asked me regarding the date that we intend to get married, I said that we were unable to get a povisional booking for the wedding, as the registrar would need to see both me and my sponsor in person, so we only have a provisional booking for the venue, so I provided him with an e-mail of the provisional booking for the wedding, set to 29th November 2013.

Was I right in stating that the arrest involved a domestic violence charge? Even though it was a GBH within a domestic violence charge? Thanks

What I meant about the refusal, is that in my opinion they wouldn't hesitate to tell me that my application was refused at the interview? For not telling them the truth at the 1st instance? So hopefully, since the visa application is under process may be a positive indication that they are weighing up everything else against this previous arrest?

Thank you for your inputs in advance.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes they should investigate it further and obtain all the require information if possible, because you were not charged or convicted the information held on you would be very minimal. I would have been more forthcoming with the immigration officer and would have disclosed that the argument was with your sponsor.

2. Regarding the arrest, the finer details are not relevant unless they were persistent in request what was the charge for, you as a lay person is not required to know the specifies of your arrest and I would suggest this would be sufficient.

3. I do not think this is the case, the immigration officer would not inform you of a decision straight away they will always consider the information and then decide you application. So by the immigration officer not informing you of a decision straight away, is not an indication that your application will be successful.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

Could you kindly explain how UKBA visa processing times are calculated? I mean I can appreciate that these processing times are an estimate and each case is unique, hence it doesn't apply for every case, but do the number of days recorded in the table mean that visas are processed in either 10,15 or 40 etc days for e.g. And not in between those days, i.e 30 days etc? Are these days considered as checkpoints? Also, does the UKBA record only successful applications on the table?

Here's the link: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/countries/kuwait/processing-times/?langname=null

Thanks.

Kind regards.
Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. No the number of days recorded in the table mean that visas are processed in either 10,15 or 40, what it is trying to show is the amount of cases that are decided withing the number of days stated or above the number of days stated, it does not mean that no cases are decided in between those days. These are not checkpoints but for the UKBA the manner in which they have calculated the completion of cases suits the sequence of number of days. It is not something to read too much in to.

2. The home office records all applications on the table, if you read the end column it total decisions made, not total successful decisions made ,otherwise because the second to last column reads 120 has 100% underneath it, which would mean that all applications are granted which surely is not the case.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your last comprehensive reply.

I would like to ask you a question with regards XXXXX XXXXX Human Rights Act under Article 8 of the European Laws.

Can the UKBA and do the UKBA have the authority to refuse an applicant, entry clearance if the sponsor is an EU national residing in the UK and having exercised treaty rights for more than 5 years? I.e. can they deny my sponsor from marrying me? Based on not disclosing the previous arrest immediately in the interview, plus we didn't disclose it in the paperwork, but was eventually disclosed to the interviewer, after the interviewer mentioned that there is information to suggest otherwise re a previous arrest and I have explained why I didn't disclose it immediately? Although I didn't notice the interviewer jotting down my explanation, so I'm not sure whether he would have communicated that over to his colleagues?

Is the fact that I denied it twice and confessed it the third time and not having disclosed that enough grounds for refusal, bearing in mind that a UK fiance visa carries a Human Rights criteria, unlike a visitor or a student visa etc Also, everything provided within the supporting documents checks out and there is no doubt about that (we are definitely in a genuine and subsisting relationship and we definitely intend to get married within 6 months etc)

Or can they issue a visa with restrictions? And what would the restrictions normally be, from your experience?

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Does Paragraph 320 (7A) apply to a UK fiance visa application? Or is it exempt from that based on the Human Rights Article 8? I mean, is it enough grounds for refusal if the interviewer believes that the applicant is not telling the truth, despite confessing the truth at the 3rd go? And as mentioned, everything else with re to UK fiance document requirements, is consistent.

Does a refusal under Paragraph 320 (7A) affect future applications for a UK spouse visa, please? Thanks

Are appeals under Article 8 of the HR pact usually successfully and are they a strong enough basis on which to appeal? i.e. if the only means of appealing a decision is under the Human Rights Act, is that a sufficient reason on its own, for a refusal to be overturned/revoked?

Thanks

Kind regards

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Regarding your question on a right to marry, no they cannot prevent you from marrying some one in the UK, if you were in the UK. But there is nothing preventing them for not issuing you a visa based on the fact that may withheld information from them.

If you were in the UK, regarding of your visa status you would be able to marry your fiancee (something which the UKBA do not like but are finding it hard to monitor) in your situation however, they are pulling the strings so they have the power to reduce your visa, but they are not refusing your visa because they are not allowing you to marry, what they will be refusing your visa on is in respect of whether they think you are of good character and credible to enter the UK and whether you will breach any of your visa conditions if you enter.

2. If you are applying for a fiancee visa, they carry the usually restriction, because a fiancee visa only allows you to marry, it does not allow you to undertake work, studies etc in the UK, so I do not think they can restrict this any further than they already have.

You are correct in stating the fact regards XXXXX XXXXX rights and the effect any refusal will have on you both as a couple and this may be the only reason where in your situation a decision may go in your favour. However, having said that the UKBA are known to refuse applications for totally bizarre reasons which in most cases get over turned at the appeal stage so, them refusing the application regardless of the human rights element attached is not rare.

All you need to hope is that the immigration officer takes into account that at the end of the interview you were forthcoming and that the reason you did not disclose the information was not because you were being deceiving but because you were unaware that you had to disclose such information.

3. In respect to paragraph 320 (7A) yes it applies to all applications. But as I mentioned in my previous answers, they will overlook that if they feel it will be a serious breach of your human rights if they were to refuse you and they would then need to look at other things to decide whether a refusal is warranted ie good character etc.

I think in this case you have to hope that it is not a refusal under 320 (7a) because these are usually very hard to overturn. This is because once the UKBA think you are not credible it is very hard to make them think otherwise. But there is nothing preventing you from appealing under human rights because this is the strongest ground you have to appeal any refusal all.

What you would need to do if it does go to appeal is explain the effects of the refusal clearly and back it up with evidence so the judge can take into account all the information and make a decision in your favor.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

What do you mean in Point 1. 'But there is nothing preventing them for not issuing you a visa based on the fact that may withheld information from them. '

Do you mean that they can still issue me a visa, despite not disclosing material facts, both written and orally (at the interview)? What confuses me, is why did the interviewer state that the UKBA have information re a previous arrest, after I denied it twice?

I was previously present in the UK on a visitor visa, and me my fiance made enquiries into getting married, but found out that I could not marry on a visitor visa and I'm assuming the registrar wouldn't go ahead with the marriage once he/she sees that I was on a visitor visa? So I'm quite confused about your statement re the right to marry regardless of the UK visa category? Could you kindly elaborate on that?

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What I meant by that comment was that they can refuse your visa based on any reason whatsoever , if they believe that you wrongly withheld information from them then there is nothing preventing them from refusing you. But in addition you can rightly appeal that on that basis that you did not withhold the information purposefully but in fact you never understood the question.

2. Regarding your right to marry, Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights states that everyone has a right to marry which means that the home office cannot prevent you from marrying someone in the UK as it will be a breach of your human rights. However they still insist that you have the correct visa to marry in the UK, but technically you can marry in the UK regardless of your status.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/newsfragments/43-abolition-of-coa

The fact remain however as your correctly stated that if you are suspected of being in a sham marriage and the registrar thinks that they should inform the UKBA then they will and there have been cases of the registrar informing the UKBA and them attending the registry office on the day of the marriage and detaining the individual.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

What do you mean by 'they are pulling the strings so they have the power to reduce your visa', how will they reduce my visa?

And the fact that I never got charged, even though I didn't disclose information re a previous arrest in writing, and denied it twice at the interview, then confessing it at the third instance, hinder the 'good character' definition in their eyes? And is the fact that I didn't confess straight away enough grounds for refusal for 'deception'?

Does refusal for not maintaining a good character carry a ban?

Also, why do you think the interviewer state that the UKBA have information re a previous arrest, after I denied it twice?

Does 'Article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights' apply to a couple, where one is an EU national exercising treaty rights in the UK and the other person is a Non EU national?

Does a refusal under Paragraph 320 (7A) affect future applications for a UK spouse visa, please? Thanks I.e. if a fiance visa is refused under Paragraph 320 (7A) and then I decided to get married to my fiance elsewhere, then apply for a UK spousal visa, would the ban still be intact?

Finally, What you would need to do if it does go to appeal is "explain the effects of the refusal clearly" and back it up with evidence so the judge can take into account all the information and make a decision in your favor. What do you mean by that statement in inverted commas, please?

Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What I meant was they have the power to REFUSE you visa not reduce it, I apologise for the error.

2. In regards XXXXX XXXXX the UKBA would need to be convinced that you were trying to hide information from them. If they feel that had they not asked you twice or 3 times regarding the arrest you would not have disclosed this to them then yes they can refuse it on the grounds of deception and on the basis that they believe that by not stating it anywhere you may have tired to lie.

3. Regarding good character, its not something that would be the sole reason for refusal it is usually a string of things accumulated together ie good character and not disclosing information. Good character alone is usually not a reason for refusal. It does not carry a ban, rather just a refusal.

4. To be honest, usually the UKBA do not research each application thoroughly, they may has spotted something in your application that may have prompted a more detailed investigation, I do not know what this could have been but, the UKBA do have access to all records on an individual and they look very thoroughly in to an applications background.

5. Yes artcle 14 applies to all regardless of their background.

6. If you are refused under 320 (7a) and banned then yes you would need to address this point in any further applications you submit for settlement. But the only thing in your favour would be that your human rights will be effected as you would be separated from your wife, and the UKBA have the discretion to overlook refusal under 320 (7a) when it come to assessing it under the human rights act.

7. What I mean by "explain the effects of the refusal clearly" is you would need to explain the effects the refusal has on you and your partner, explain how the separation is effecting you, how it is stopping you from starting a family, stress you may be going through etc also state that your partner being in the UK and working is unable to leave the UK and reside in your home country. Basically stating all the reasons why you feel the refusal is unjust and explain the effects on you and your partner living apart.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Given the facts of my scenario, do you think that there's a strong grounds for refusal under deception? And what does it carry with it, a refusal on its own, or a refusal and a ban? Please. Thanks

Is the human rights basis a strong enough reason on its own to overturn a refusal under Paragraph 320 (7A)? As you mention that these refusals are hard to overturn.

Could they just refuse me for not disclosing material facts, without a ban?

So let me get this right, please. If my UK fiancee was refused under Paragraph 320 (7A), the decision would need to be overtuned/appealed etc, before I make an application for a UK spouse visa? Otherwise it will still be intact? How can they stop a wife from being re-united with her husband? It's unreal.

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes there are grounds for refusal in your case for deception, but because you did admit the arrest in the interview it may not be a strong ground. However having said that because you didn't disclose it in the documentation you submitted the ukba may go down the deception route and state that had they not asked you they would not have known. This would carry a ban of up to 10 years.

2. Yes if there is a chance to overturn such a decision it would be under human rights, as stated already you would need to give clear details of why you believe your human rights are being effected.

3. If they refuse you for not disclosing material facts it would carry a ban. Unless it was due to you missing documents or not completely filling the form etc but if you had the opportunity and you didn't disclose then it would carry a ban.

4. It wouldn't need to be overturned as such but you would need to make a conscious effort to appeal and try and over turn it so they have it in their records when you do apply for a spouse visa that the applicant did try to overturn the decision because they believe that it was made incorrectly. You can then apply for a spouse visa and then state why you believe in that application again that the decision made to refuse your previous application was incorrect, you have to make reference to the previous application.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your response.

With regards XXXXX XXXXX 3 of your reply. I wasn't aware of disclosing that previous arrest in the forms etc, as I thought it didn't matter, since no charge or conviction was ever made, and everything was dropped in the end, i.e. NFA. I did explain that reason during the interview, that the reason why I did not disclose it is because I don't have a criminal record and I never got charged or convicted. Also, as far as I remember, on the online visa form, VAF4A, it states whether there has been any previous charges or convictions, not arrests only, so I ticked no for that.

How long do I have to appeal after a refusal was made? And how long do appeals usually take?

Also, do they require my passport for the appeal process?

Is it best to get married elsewhere then to submit the marriage certificate along with the other appeal documents?

What's the success rate of appeals for deception, under the human rights, please?

Also, if my fiance would uproot and leave the UK in order to settle with me in Kuwait, would he 'lose' his status as having exercised treaty rights in the UK for over 5 years? Does he need to obtain an EEA residence card before he leaves the UK?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In respect of appealing if it is 28 days from the date you received the refusal of the application :

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=iaft+2&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8Q FjAA&url=http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/ecis/ecg/appeal-decision-immigration.pdf&ei=FAr-Ucb9A_Dy7AaLh4G4BQ&usg=AFQjCNENbi5HWswqUfxBxIwaiBx-vXZXYQ&bvm=bv.50165853,d.ZGU

Appealing from outside the uk usually does take a lot longer than appealing from inside the UK. If you appeal it will take at least 6 -8 months for your case to appear in front of an immigration judge and then they usually take between 2-4 weeks to decide the case (if decision is not made on the day ).

2. Your passport is usually not required, but you can send a copy of your passport as part of your appeal documents if you so wish. The ukba usually send a copy of your whole application as part of their documents which usually contains your passport copy.

3. You can marry elsewhere and submit the certificate of your marriage with the application, but it will be for the immigration judge to decide whether to admit this evidence as the marriage certificate would not have been part of the original application document. The immigration judge usually only allow documents which were part of the original application.

4. It depends on the strength of your argument and what judge the case ends up in front of. I would always say 50/50.

5. Your fiancé would need to have excersied treaty rights for a continuous 5 years before applying for permanent residency. If he leaves before completing the 5 years, he would not be eligible to apply for permanent residency in the uk.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

I have been refused under paragraph 320(7B) yet again. And they have questioned my income, despite my sponsor earning well above 18,600 per annum, and surely he is sponsoring my application, so I don't need to show any proof of income, as my fiance is my sponsor etc and my immigration advisor would have definitely advised me prior to this. Nowhere on the documents required by the UKBA do they state that the applicant has to show evidence of their income? Could you advise me on this? Clearly they have breached my rights and this refusal is unjust. Do I have a strong case for an appeal? Thanks


Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

What reason did they refuse it under paragraph 320 ( 7b)?

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Please see attached the refusal letter.

They have basically refused me on the same basis as my last refused visitor visa application, for having being refused entry on arrival to the UK on 14/12/2012.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thanks you for your reply.


My understanding of the refusal letter is that they have only refused your application on the basis if your previous ban. They have stated that even if you meet the financial requirements the application will still be refused regardless.

I believe that you have strong grounds for appeal as mentioned in my previous answers. They should have taken in to account that you are applying for a settlement visa and should not have refused the application. The positive fact is that the application was not refuse due to deception but for your original ban.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

What originally led to this ban, was due to the fact that on the application form of my last granted visitor entry clearance on 24th June 2012, I stated that I wanted to stay for a duration of 30 days, following my graduation, whereas I ended up staying 5 months. But my visa was still valid, so I wasn't in breach of any conditions attached to my leave, I left in a hurry due to mitigating circumstances back home.

So when I tried to re-enter the UK on 14th Dec 2012, in order to collect my belongings and complete my affairs in the UK, I was refused entry upon arrival, was interviewed and they asked me why I've stayed for 5 months. I said that I wanted to apply for a Masters course, so that I would go home and re-apply as a student and that I wanted to spend time with my partner. I even had a return plane ticket.

They penalised me for not disclosing this fact on my granted visitor application. But I wasn't prompted to provide such information. It's a visitor application and my main reason was to attend my graduation ceremony, not to spend time with my partner. So I was sent home. I voluntarily chose to do so.

Then when I tried to re-apply for a visitor visa in Feb 2013, I was refused entry clearance due to being refused entry on arrival on 14/12/2012. I was refused under paragraph 320(7B), plus they were not sure of my intentions to visit and that I would return home afterwards and was issued with a one year ban. They also weren't sure of my family and financial conditions.Which was fair enough, as it was a visitor visa. But they still drag it onto the settlement visa.

I then enquired about circumventing the ban and the UK fiance visa was a promising option, as paragraph 320(7B) wouldn't apply to the UK fiance visa. Since my fiance is sponsoring my fiance application and the onus was mainly on him to provide most of the documents, yet they still ban me upon the same basis and they question my financial circumstances, I'm really annoyed and frustrated with their decision. They seem adamant on refusing me entry clearance. What assets do they expect me to have, when I've graduated last year?

But what's really insane is that it clearly states on the UKBA site that the sponsor is a person settled and living in the UK and that he is responsible for maintaining me me throughout my stay in the UK, he earns well above the threshold needed, by at least 3 times. They clearly don't understand the rules.

How long do you think it would take to overturn this matter? As it does mention that on the second page, second paragraph of the 'Your right of Appeal' section. Does it even reach the courts for this/ appeal procedures?

Finally, what baffles me is that there is no mention of the interview on the refusal letter, in fact they said that it wasn't necessary to interview me.Third paragraph, on the first page of the refusal letter, under 'Your application' section.

That's a blatant lie. I was made to attend to interview last Monday, 30th July 2013. They were concerned with a wedding booking, even though it wasn't a requirement on the UKBA's site. But we provided them with a wedding booking anyhow. Then they question me about a previous arrest, which has nothing to do with the application, I was really concerned that I would get refused for deception, but what saved me is that I confessed in the end. The previous arrest carries no charge or conviction. Surely they would have brought it up in my last visitor visa refusal letter. They're trying to pick on whatever they can, to refuse me, I don't know why though.

I've kept a clean immigration history to the UK, I never once overstayed nor breached any conditions attached to my leave.

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

The fact is that the UKBA do not always refuse for the correct reasons that is why over half the decision are always overturned at appeal. You are correct in respect of what you have stated regards XXXXX XXXXX they have refused it on and I would assume that it is these points which both you and the judge would like them to clarify.

1. It usually takes as I mentioned around 6 months to obtain an appeal date. I would suggest that your sponsor actually attends the Hearing, with a barrister if he can afford one.

2. Yes I noticed the same thing, which is very strange but it just serves to highlight the incompetence of the ukba and the way they refuse applications. As mentioned at least they did not refuse you for deception but for your 1 year ban.

What I suggest you do now is at least try and challenge the decision and state all the reasons you have just given as the grounds for your appeal. The appeal should be decided within 6 - 8 months and even if it does not go in your favour at least the ukba will have it on their record that you tried to contest the decision made.

In any event by the time a decision is made on the appeal your 1 year ban would no longer be in effect. I can totally understand your frustration, but as already mentioned the ukba do not always refuse applications for the right reasons.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your last response and inputs.

I have now lodged an appeal with the IAT in Leicester. They received it last Tues. I have been told that it takes them a month to process it and then up to 12 weeks for an ECM review decision, is that correct?

I am hoping that the ECM will see some sense and decide to overturn the UKBA's decision and grant me a visa. I don't see my matter escalating to court, to be honest. As it's not in the public's interest nor in the UKBA's interest, to dispute the matter further. Do you see it going to court?

As you've mentioned, by the time the ECM makes a decision, the ban period would have 'expired', so there are no other grounds of refusal, as I meet all the other requirements.

We are appealing on the grounds that paragraph 320 (7B) doesn't apply to a UK fiance visa, that the refusal letter was unsigned, undated, that I have attended an interview, despite of what they state on the refusal letter and that they treated my application as a visitor visa with the rights to marriage, which is incorrect, as it is a settlement visa. Does such visitor visa exist? (A marriage visitor visa) Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. If the appeal is made from outside of the uk, the papers go to the high commission or embassy they then have 19 weeks to decide whether they want to go ahead with the appeal or to reconsider the decision and grant it in your favour. So it can take more than 6 months to process the appeal if it goes to court. If they make the decision in your favour then it will obviously be decided sooner.

2. The home office have been known to take the most ridiculous cases to court so I would not be surprised if they do decide to uphold the decision and not overturn it.

3. If you have mentioned that the ban may have expired even before the case is heard at court then I would suggest that as soon as your ban expires then write a letter to the court stating this point and ask them to also inform the high commission or embassy in your country. This should help them make a decision in your favour.

4. Yes a marriage visa does exist it is for applicants who just want to come to the UK to marry and then return to their home country and not settle in the uk after marriage.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Laywer,

Juts to clarify. Although I made my original UK Fiance visa application outside the UK, the appeal was lodged within the UK, at the IAT in the UK. My sponsor has lodged the appeal in the UK.

I was advised that the ECM reviewing the papers would be one based in the UK and hence would be independent from the Embassy over in my country. And I was advised that it takes a month for them to process it and then up to 12 weeks to review and make a decision. (Before and if, it goes to court).

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes although the appeal was made within the uk, it was for a refusal that was on a decision made from outside the uk.

2. The appeal process works by the papers being submitted to the tribunal, they are not considered by the tribunal until the high commission or embassy states that they wish to proceed with the appeal. The commission embassy have 19 weeks to reply once they agree to go ahead with the appeal and appeal date is issued for your appeal.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

1. That is understood.

2. Don't all appeals get reviewed by an ECM in the UK first, before and if needed to proceed to court though?

3. As far as I know the UKBA has been merged with the home office, so do you think it wouldn't be in the public's interest to pursue the matter to court? I mean after the ban expires, what other grounds for refusal do they have? It seems from the refusal letter that the UKBA's only grounds for refusal is the ban under paragraph 320 (7B), which expires in under 3 months' time. Please refer to the refusal letter, in my previous reply (above). Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes, as explained all appeals have to be submitted to the Tribunal in the UK, the tribunal then sends a copy of the documents to the embassy/high commission which made the decision. The embassy/high commission then makes a decision whether to overturn the decision or to uphold it, in which case the tribunal will issue you with a Hearing date, The ECM will determine whether they wish to proceed with the appeal or overturn the decision.

2. I do not think it would be in the public's interest to pursue with this case , however, unfortunately this particular branch of the home office do not think the same way, if they believe they have a 1% chance of winning the case they will proceed to court. That is why at least between 60% - 80% of decisions are overturned at the appeal stage.

If they have not made a decision to overturn your appeal, then I suggest that you write a letter to the court stating that the ban has now expired and your visa should be issued.

I hope this answers your question if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I know this is slightly off your expertise area, but do you any knowledge of what a country's national security deals with please? Does it deal with crimes committed against the state in the country itself, or abroad?

If I have been previously arrested for a domestic violence matter in the UK, does the national security in my country know about it or have any concerns about that, please? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Regarding national security your country would not be interested if you were only arrested in another country, only if acts of terrorism etc were committed then your country would also take an interest.

The only reason why the arrest has become an issue is because you are applying for settlement to the UK and they want to check every little history about you past , otherwise it would not be an issue.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

Just a few more questions on this topic, please; would national security in my country even be informed of a previous arrest in the UK, re a domestic incident or would they even be interested in the matter, in the first instance?

Today was the first day that I got my fingerprints/photo taken for a passport renewal, so they wouldn't have had details on their system prior to this? (I'm guessing)

Finally, would the authorities over here be interested in why I got my continuing visitor visa cancelled (red-stamped) by the UKBA? I would personally doubt it, as it is a matter that concerns the UK and the UKBA, not over here.

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. I do not believe they will be interested in this incident. The only time this incident will even be looked into is if you are applying for a visa to that country, which in your case you are and that is why it was looked into otherwise it would not be something that would be looked in to.

2. If you have given your finger prints already then they already have this information the only reason they have asked for it again would be to ensure that you are the actual person applying for the visa.

3. Yes that is correct authorities in your country would not be interested in you being arrested as it is not an issue of public safety.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

with re to point 2. I meant the passport issuing authority over here have asked for my fingerprints, not the UKBA. As I was under 18, when I was issued a passport. So my question was, the authorities wouldn't have any or much information on me, if this is the first time they have asked for my fingerprints to be taken?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes that is correct they would not have any information on you if this is the first time you have been asked for these details.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for all your inputs.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I'm sorry to ask you this again. But you kindly clarify what the ECM appeal procedure is, please? I mean is it the ECM in the UK who makes the decision to overturn the visa refusal or is it the British Embassy in the UK that makes that decision please?

What would have happened had I not travelled to the UK on the 14th of December 2012 (when I was refused entry on arrival), after stating that I intended to stay 30 days on my visitor visa application, but then stayed 5 months? I mean would they still pick on this criteria one way or another? And which date would they have counted the ban from? (27th November 2012; the date I left the UK)

Finally, a bit off the subject, if the police were called via the emergency number re an incident that occurred at home, of which I was the victim, the police turned up, but they were not admitted to the scene and no statement was taken, they were turned away and they didn't follow up the matter. However, I gave them my first and surnames. Would this be logged on their system? Bearing in mind that no statement was ever written or anything. I just told them that I was being threatened by a member of my family, who has been abusive to me and has been abusive to me in the past. Also,since the authorities in my country don't have any record or v.little record on me, since I've only recently done my fingerprints, and they've only recently entered those details on their system, if they carry out any security checks through their national computer or state security systems, not much, if any info, would come up on me, is that correct? Because I'm stateless and never done my fingerprints before?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I have no problem in explaining the procedure again.

1. The British embassy in your home country will make the decision whether to overturn their decision or not. They have 19 weeks to decide whether they will overturn the decision, if they do not the case goes to the tribunal.

2. Your ban would start from the date you departed the uk so if it was in November 2012 then your ban would have started on that date.

3. Yes that is correct, however, it depends on how diligent your country is, if they log every visit and take the name of the victim every time even though no action or statement was taken then, this may appear on the national computer as it did in the uk. But if your country doesn't record every incident they visit then this would not be the case.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for clarifying the matter. I was advised by my lawyer that the ECM in the UK would review the decision and can overturn it, after which the Embassy in my home country have no choice but to comply with the IAT's decision. I wasn't told that the visa section who refused me, would have the power to overturn the decision.

I believe that we have a strong grounds to appeal the refusal, purely due to errors committed by the UKBA rather than us, i.e. the refusal was not due to a lack of supporting documents etc, they treated my fiance visa, as a visitor visa, which is absurd, but there you go.

Do you think that they would have picked on the issue, re staying 5 months, despite stating on my visitor visa application that I only wanted to stay for 30 day? Had I not traveled back to the UK on 14th Dec 2012, please?

Also, if the ECM was to overturn the decision, is it likely to be before the ban expires or afterwards? And how long does it take the Embassy to issue a visa, once the ECM decides to overturn the decision, please? Thanks.

Next, I have read somewhere that the UKBA can still refuse a UK fiance visa application under 320 (7B) 'Where the applicant has contrived in a significant way to frustrate the intentions of the immigration rules' what does that mean, please?

Finally, have you come across cases, where an applicant has been previously refused under paragraph 320 (7B) for a visitor visa, after which the applicant has then applied for a fiance/settlement visa, and
then got granted a visa? Hence the ban under 320 (7B) was not applied.

And in contrast, have you come across cases, where an applicant has been previously refused under 320 (7B) for a visitor visa, then applied for a settlement visa, then was refused under paragraph 320 (7B), as the ban didn't yet expire (as in my case) and then appealed/ or had the ECM overturn the decision and grant it in their favour, and subsequently got granted a visa? Thank you.

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes, because all your papers are in your home country, it would be the Embassy in your country who would be considering your case rather than anyone in the uk.

2. In respect of your staying 5 months extra that is not a straight grounds for refusal but rather they want to clarify why you had stated one thing and done another . The fact is that you had a 6 months visa and are able to stay for the whole duration of the visa as long as you can clarify why your initial intention was to stay 30 days and you stayed 6 months.

3. I think that if they will overturn it it will be before the ban expires because they only have 19 weeks to decide and in that time your ban would still be in force. It maybe the case that you would have to state in your grounds of appeal at the Hearing that your ban has now expired and the decision on your case should be overturned.

If your decision is overturned before going to appeal then the process of issuing you with a visa should take between. 4-6 weeks. You would be asked to submit your passport and then collect it when the visa is issued.

4. What frustrate intention means is that the application has intentionally withheld information or documents or has delayed in submitting the information or documents on purpose. It is basically anything that an applicant does so they immigration authorities cannot make a fair decision.

5. I have come across cases where if an applicant has been banned it is then overturned, but because the home office do not always refused for the right reasons sometimes it does take for the matter to be in from of a judge for them to make a correct decision.

6. Usually it depends on the persons nationality, if they are believe to be a national of a high risk country then the embassy in the country usually are much more stricter in applying the immigration rules whereas applicants of low risk countries the immigration officers are more lenient in the application of the immigration rules. That is why unfortunately to get a just decision then applicant has to go to court.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

With re to point 2 of your last answer, I stayed for 5 months in total, rather than 6 months, although I had stated on my application that I was planning to stay for 30 days. They detained me and interviewed me at Heathrow, after which I did explain to the Interviewing officer that I wanted to spend time with my partner etc he said I should have disclosed that in the visitor visa application, which I had originally made, but I wasn't prompted to provide such information (i.e. details of my relationship), as my main purpose was to attend my graduation ceremony. I was given the option to appeal from the UK or back home, so I decided to get back on the next available flight. I did ask the interviewing immigration officer, whether this refusal on entry would affect any future applications, he said no, then I applied for entry clearance to the UK as a visitor, this time disclosing details about my partner, but I was refused, under paragraph 320 (7B), for having been refused entry on arrival on 14th Dec 2012.


With re to point 3 of your last reply. The ban expires on 14/12/2013. So is it likely that the ECM will overturn their decision before that date or afterwards? Also, when you state 19 weeks, is that from the date the appeal was lodged at the tribunal, which was 13th August 2013, or does the 19 weeks start from the date they take the payment for the appeal from my partner's credit card, which is 140 pounds? As of yet, they haven't sent us an acknowledgement letter nor take the payment out. We sent the papers via DHL to the IAT in Leicester and they were signed for on 13th August 2013.

How long does it take to receive an acknowledgment letter from the UKBA and how long will it take them to process their fee, please? We have lodged the appeal on 13th August 2013.

They treated my last UK fiance application as a visitor visa with the intention to get married. We provided all the necessary documents and we meet all the eligibility criteria, yet they still applied the ban under 320 (7B).

Hopefully, this matter won't proceed to court, as there chances of winning are less than 1%, if the only obstacle is the ban. Once the ban expires, there shouldn't be any grounds for refusal. How could they mistake this for a visitor visa, with the intentions of getting married, when the words, UK fiance were written everywhere? It's absurd.

Why was I issued with a ban under paragraph 320 (7B), in the first place, if I still had a valid visa and had they taken my entire immigration history to the UK into account, they would see that I had never overstayed. So what made them think all of a sudden that I would overstay. I even had a return flight ticket in hand.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 1 year ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Although you did not state in the application form that you had a partner in the UK, you were correct to state that the main purpose of your visit was to attend the ceremony and not to visit your partner. Had there been no ceremony you would not have visited the UK.

With regards XXXXX XXXXX staying the extra time in the UK, this is not a breach of the immigration rules.

2. The ban if overturned would be done before this date as 19 weeks from the date of you appealing would have passed. The date of logging the appeal is the date which is taken not the date of payment. Therefore in your case 19 weeks from 13 August should be when you would know if the decision has been overturned.

I am aware as of now the tribunal is extremely busy and therefore it is taking them around 6 - 8 weeks to confirm receipt of the appeal being lodged.

3. If they have decided the case under the wrong criteria then this is something you should have stated in the grounds for appeal , if not then the ECM should use his/her common sense to overturn the decision.

4. The UK immigration authorities are known to have made mistakes in the past and will do so in the future, it is therefore no surprise that most decisions do get overturned prior to appeal or in court. Unfortunately you have just been one of the unlucky ones to have received a decision which was incorrectly decided.

5. In respect of the ban , i believe again that as you had not overstayed they should not have issued you with a ban for overstaying. The only reason I can think of for the ban being issued is because you withheld information in respect of your partner being in the UK, I believe the ban was for purely this reason.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 12 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

The IAT haven't deducted the appeal fees yet. Will the appeal be logged only after they process the fee? I would have thought that they would be quick to process the fee, but it has now been over 3 weeks and they haven't processed the fee.

You mention that there's a 6-8 weeks back log, does that mean it will take them 6-8 weeks to log the appeal and to process the fee, please? Or to send a letter of acknowledgment?

I did mention all the relevant points in the grounds of appeal, in the paperwork we've submitted to the IAT, which includes that they have considered my visa as a visitor marriage visa, which is incorrect, as it's a fiance visa, that the ban under paragraph 320(7B) doesn't apply to the fiance visa, I was in fact interviewed and that paragraph 320(7C) is no longer in force. And, the refusal letter was unsigned and undated, which could invalidate it.

When I was refused entry upon arrival on 14th December 2012, I did mention in the interview that my relationship with my partner had broken down and that I was only intending to collect my belongings, which included some important certificates and then go back. I even had a return ticket. They knew that me and my partner were involved in a domestic incident, as they had a look through my luggage and I confessed to them prior to that. I should have been given temporary admission to collect my belongings. It doesn't make sense that throughout my immigration history I have never once overstayed, yet all of a sudden, they would think I'd overstay, plus my relationship had broken down, as mentioned.

It's surreal to believe that the UKBA have 'mistaken' my application for a visitor one. I think they are annoyed that I managed to find a loophole past the ban under paragraph 320(7B), via the fiance visa route and so they refused me on purpose, so that I can serve out the ban. That's what I personally believe. Because they know how long it takes to appeal and an ECM review would take up to 4 months, is that correct? So 4 months from 13th August would take us up to the expiry of the ban date.

Thank you so much.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 12 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. There has been, due to the lack of staff a delay in taking fees, the tribunal service is currently having to deal with a lot of backlog and therefore the process has been delayed. The fact that you have lodged the appeal is what is important.

2. It will take then 6-8 weeks or longer to lodge the appeal, but as long as they have confirmed that they have received the appeal and you have evidence that you have submitted the appeal , that will be sufficient. Any correspondence from the tribunal can take over 8 weeks.

3. In respect of the circumstances regarding your entry to the UK, it is obvious that the home office have interpreted the circumstances differently. I believe that either now a sensible ECM or an immigration judge will need to look at the evidence to have this overturned.

4. It may be the case that they wish for you to serve the ban, but unfortunately due to the bureaucracy and the way the UKBA functions you have to go through the motions to obtain a positive outcome. The ECM has 19 weeks to decide to review the case so yes 4.5 months.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 12 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

Do you mean that it's taking the tribunal 6-8 weeks to process the appeal fee and to acknowledge the appeal? And do they only acknowledge the appeal after they have processed the fee, please? Thanks.

We have confirmation that the appeal has been lodged, as the appeal was sent to the IAT via DHL and someone has signed for it. So we are in receipt of that. But they are yet to process the fee and to acknowledge the appeal. Hence, we haven't received any written correspondence from the tribunal.

Can you kindly clarify, what you mean by the above sentence in point 4
'it is obvious that the home office have interpreted the circumstances differently.' In what ways have the home office misinterpreted the situation, please? Thanks.

Finally, the refusal letter was totally incoherent, how could they possibly treat my UK fiance application as a marriage visitor visa, it must have been deliberate, unfortunately there is no way of proving that, unless I appeal. Fingers crossed, my application will be overturned at the ECM review stage.

Is it true, that it's not up to the visa section that refused the application, in the first place, to decide to escalate the matter to court? That is decided by the adjudicator in the UK?

I have been told that the UKBA are under pressure to clear the back log and wasting tax payer's money is a key issue, therefore one would hope that they would be sensible enough to overturn the decision at the ECM stage; because the ban would have been expired by then (It's mentioned in the appeal papers).

Many thanks and Kind Regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 12 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In respect of acknowledging the appeal, they will acknowledge the appeal even if the fee has not been paid, but they will not issue you with an appeal date until the fee is paid. They usually send out a reminder and give you a certain amount of time to pay the fees in.

2. The fact you have confirmation that it was received by the tribunal is sufficient, you should keep this safe for your records.

3. What I meant by 'it is obvious that the home office have interpreted the circumstances differently.' is that they have viewed your case as someone who is applying for a marriage visit visa in stead of a fiancee visa as you stated.

4.The visa section decide whether they wish to overturn their decision or not, it is then up to the court to decide when to hear. It can not be escalated by the ECM only by the court.

I totally agree with you that if the refusal is for an unjust reason then the ECM should see sense in the decision and reconsider the decision in favor of the applicant.

I hope this answers your question, if so kindly rate my answer positively.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
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Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask you with regards XXXXX XXXXX appeal process timelines.

If the ECM decides to uphold the decision, does it take an additional 6-8 months to obtain a hearing date after the 19 weeks period, or does the 6-8 months start from the date that the appeal was logged, i.e. 13th August 2013, please?

Kind regards

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

The appeal date is usually from the date the appeal is lodged. But from what they tribunal has been stating it does seem that the tribunal is very busy and there are delays In issuing appeal date. So the time line has been increased. In some cases it is taking 12 months from the date the appeal is lodged to issue an appeal dates.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards to
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

Have you ever seen a refusal letter that hasn't been signed or dated by the ECO? Could that itself invalidate the refusal letter itself?

My gut feeling is that since the only criteria the UKBA has against me is the 'ban', once that expires, there's no grounds for the UKBA to take the court, as the ban would have expired by then?



I doubt the UKBA would accidentally forget to sign and date a letter, knowing how demanding and scrutinising they are. I believe the refusal letter was deliberately not signed or dated, as it's highly unlikely the matter would proceed to court, at least I hope it won't and the UKBA know that won't reach the court, as by the time the ECM makes a decision, the ban would have been well expired?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your further question.


1. In respect of refusal letters not being signed this is an occurrence although it would not necessarily invalidate the refusal letter. It would certainly not be a ground to overturn your decision.

2. There may not be a ground to take the case to the tribunal but this would certainly not prevent the home office from doing so, they would state that at the time of the application the ban was still active so the decision made was correct. You would argue that the ban should have been over look due to your visa criteria.

3. The case can reach the court but let's hope the ECM sees some sense and reconsiders the decision.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
UK_Lawyer and 2 other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

What's the longest time can appeals take (oral hearing) for settlement visas, bearing in time the delays that the tribunal is facing, please? Does it take years to resolve? or 12 months at the most? Thanks.

Do I have to withdraw the pending appeal if I was to apply for a student visa? And is it likely for my student visa to be refused, since I was refused a settlement visa? I mean would my refused settlement visa affect future UK visa applications? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. I have never had an appeal take years I imagine that 12 months would be a about the right amount of time you need to wait during this period will the tribunal having delays.

2. If you want to submit an application for a student visa you would need to withdraw your appeal and then apply. The only thing that can effect your application is your 1 year ban. Your fiancee visa being refused would not have an effect.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

I would like to comment on your earlier reply. Although at the time the application for the UK fiance visa was made, the ban was still active, they didn't however treat my application as a fiance settlement application, they treated it as a marriage visitor visa, hence the ban would apply. Had they assessed my application under the correct criteria, i.e. UK fiance visa, the ban under paragraph 320(7B) doesn't come into affect. Therefore the decision made was incorrect, as it was a settlement visa I applied for, not a marriage visitor visa.

Is there any way of tracking my application? It's been over 5 weeks now and still no news. I mean where can I find out about delays etc? Is there a website? I don't have an appeal number, all I have is the post ref no of the embassy that made the decision and a receipt that the bundle was sent and signed for.

Should I instruct my lawyer to contact the tribunal if I don't hear anything within the next 2 weeks or so? As I've been told that it's currently taking the tribunal up to 8 weeks to process appeals.

Also, are they (tribunal) likely to send a letter of acknowledgement etc to my sponsor in the UK or to me? (abroad)

Finally, how will I know if the matter proceeds to court etc? I will instruct my lawyer to write to them after the ban expires. Thanks.

Kind regards

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes I agree with what you have stated in respect of your application not being considered under the correct category. What I was simply trying to state was that in the Home Office's view they would still still by their previous decision and it is likely that they would take the matter to the tribunal simply because they believe a correct decision on your application was made.

2. Unfortunately there is no way to track the application once it has been sent to the tribunal. You may call the tribunal giving them your name and asking what the progress on it is. The number to call is +44 (0)300(NNN) NNN-NNNN

3. You can contact the tribunal using the above number yourself and ask for progress, but yes I would advise that you do it give it a few more weeks as the tribunal is currently experiencing delays in issuing appeal numbers.

4. The letter confirming your appeal has been lodged will be sent to you. This will state any additional information you may require from the tribunal in respect of when an appeal date is likely to be issued.

5. If you are issued with an appeal date , it means that the issue has proceeded to the tribunal. If prior to being issued with an appeal date you receive a letter from the ECM then the case would not proceed to the tribunal.

I hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

It doesn't make sense for the tribunal to send a letter to me all over in Kuwait, when both my sponsor and legal representative are in the UK? Could you kindly confirm this? The postal system is very unreliable over here, I don't think I would ever receive the letter, if it was sent over here. Both my sponsor and legal representative have provided their details on the forms (address, e-mail, phone numbers etc) Plus, my sponsor's card details are on there, as he's making the payment on my behalf.

My sponsor has previously tried ringing that number, you stated above, but there's some sort of automatic message on there, so you can't actually talk to anyone?

I'm just worried that they may have displaced it, but it's most likely they haven't got round to processing it yet?

What would the acknowledgment letter state, please?
The date until the ECM has to respond? Plus, the appeal date? If the matter goes to court, the latest a hearing date would be issued is approx around Feb-April next year? If it was lodged last last Aug?

The papers were signed by someone, but is it some building that it goes to or a P.O. Box, do you know, please?

Finally, what happens if I don't receive the letter after a while? Should my lawyer chase it up? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. If you have instructed solicitors in the UK and they have submitted your appeal on your behalf then the notice that your appeal has been lodged would be sent to them.

2. The number stated is correct, what your sponsor needs to do is follow the directions stated by the automated message and press the options.

3. Your appeal most probably has been received but has not been processed, as long as you have evidence that an appeal was sent to the Tribunal this will be sufficient even if something has been misplaced.

4.The acknowledgement would state your name and your appeal number and it will also state a date which the tribunal will write to you issuing you with an appeal date if the ECM decides to uphold the appeal.

5. I can not state when exactly an appeal date will be issued for it all depends on how busy the tribunal is but it will be just a case of waiting for them to reply. Due to the back-log the appeal dates are unpredictable.

6. The appeal is sent to whats called a general tribunal office which then processed the appeals. It can be signed by anyone, but as long as you have evidence that it has been received by the tribunal then this is sufficient for you if anything wrong happens in the future.

7. I would recommend that your lawyers call the number stated above and see if they can obtain an appeal date. Once of my clients submitted an appeal 3 months ago from inside the UK and I have still yet to receive an appeal date. I had to call the tribunal to obtain an appeal number, but am still waiting for it to arrive in the post. This is just to give you an idea of how delayed the proceeding are at the tribunal for an appeal from inside the UK. Outside the UK appeals can take even longer.

I hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

With re to Point 1. My lawyer has prepare and drafted the ground of appeal on my behalf, but my sponsor had to send it to the tribunal via courier, as my lawyer is not permitted to lodge appeals on a client's behalf. But within the bundle, he mentions that he will be representing my case in the UK etc and I have signed to show my approval, so the tribunal are aware that he's going to be my legal representative etc

Is it best for my lawyer to contact the tribunals number, rather than my sponsor, as that might 'annoy them', if you know what I mean.

My goodness! It's taking 3 months to get an appeal date from inside the UK? How long does it usually take to get a hearing date for appeals within the UK? But you say that you did manage to get an appeal number, after calling them, right? Was that recent? If you don't mind me asking. Thanks

Is it possible to know the firm that you represent, please? Or a linkedin account?

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. There is a representative section on the appeal from which he should have filled in with his details etc if the section remain blank then correspondence maybe sent to your sponsor. If you have instructed a solicitor then they should be able to lodge an appeal on your behalf. I believe that you have instructed an OISC representative instead not a lawyer.

2. If on the form they have stated that they are representing you then they should contact them, but if the name stated on the form is yours and your sponsor's then either you or they should contact the tribunal.

3. Yes the appeal dates are usually issued within 3 months but I have yet to receive an acknowledgement letter from them. It was only 3 weeks ago when I contacted the tribunal.

4. Due to the policy of this website we are unable to disclose any of the information. I therefore regret to inform you that I am unable to give you any information regarding my firm.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

1. Yes my legal representative has filled out the relevant section on the appeal form. He is an immigration barrister and has advised us that according to the bar regulations, he's not permitted to lodge appeals on a client's behalf.

2. All three names are XXXXX XXXXX the form; my name, my sponsor and my legal representative.

3. That's a pity. So I am not permitted to give you an e-mail address to contact me or for me to your name etc? Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Its not a problem at all. I just hope it works out for you, specially if you have a barrister assisting you, then it should not be a problem even if the case is take to the tribunal.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for your kind words. It's just a really painful wait. I haven't seen my partner since last September, almost a year now.

Is it true that barristers cannot lodge appeals on a client's behalf?

Finally, how can the ECM make a decision, when the embassy has returned back all the original docs? Will they make a decision based on the legal submissions, which were submitted at the time of the application and of which they are in receipt of?

Thank you so much.

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Its quite alright. I know the situation must be very difficult, but its just a case of playing the waiting game and going through the processes.

1. Yes barristers should not be doing anything for the client apart from representing them at court. Everything else should be done by a solicitor. It is again the bar council code to start undertaking activities which are not permitted.

2. Even if all the original documents have been returned the embassy has made a copy of all the documents and they have been placed on your file. The ECM will make a decision by reviewing your file. The reason why all your original documents have been returned is so if you wish you can use the documents to show to the immigration judge that original documents were submitted at the time of your initial application.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for confirming that.

Well my barrister has copies of everything that we submitted anyways. The embassy has all the print outs, such as Skype, phone bills, e-mails, texts, the legal submissions and witness statements of both me and my sponsor and friends/relatives.

Do you know of anyone (a client perhaps) who has recently lodged an appeal outside the UK and timelines it's taking?

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply, Its no problem at all.

Yes I have had a client who submitted an appeal before you and they have an appeal date for April next year. So the delay is quite severe.

All i would recommend is that you call the tribunal obtain your appeal number (when processed) and then wait for any correspondence from the tribunal. Once your appeal number has been issued it is just a matter of waiting.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thanks.

Sorry what do you mean by 'when processed'? When my representative receives the letter or when the appeal fee is processed? Thanks

May I know, which month you client submitted an appeal and roughly how long it took for your them to receive a letter of acknowledgement and for the tribunal to process the fee? Was it relating to a settlement visa, like myself?

If you don't mind. Thank you for your help, in advance.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. I mean when the tribunal issues you with a reference number, this will be before your representative obtain a letter from the tribunal and before your fee is deducted.

2. No it was for a totally different visa, and i do not believe that it would be of any relevance to your case to inform you of the time scales because this was an appeal from inside the UK and the time scales are totally different due to the tribunal giving the ECM 19 weeks to decide to reconsider to appeal. I do not want to give you the time scales because then you may be given false hope that your appeal process will take roughly the same time.

I hope this answers your question

kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

Fair enough. Thank you anyhow.

Just a final question, please. When you mentioned that you had a client who's appeal date is in April, was that for an appeal lodged within the UK or outside the UK, please? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply and thank you for understanding.


The appeal was lodged from outside the uk.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask, with regards XXXXX XXXXX delays at the IAT. Are the delays only with the processing or with the entire appeal process please?

I mean, once they process my appeal and send out a letter, does the ECM have 19 weeks from the date my appeal is processed or from the date the appeal is lodged, please? Bearing in mind, the extra 4 weeks delays in processing, therefore 8 weeks processing time.

And are there delays with issuing a hearing date (if needed), please?

Next, do ECMs always respond or have there been cases when they don't respond during the 19 weeks period? Thanks.

Finally, do marriage visitor visas carry a full rights of appeal? If not, then do you think my lawyer should point out to the tribunal, if the case goes to a hearing, that it's strange for the UKBA to issue me with full rights of appeal forms, despite treating my application as a marriage visitor visa, which I don't think carries a full rights of appeal? Could you kindly confirm this? Or is it routine, to issue a full rights of appeal?

Thanks

Kind regards

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply .

The delay is regarding the whole process , but what they are doing is sometimes, giving you earlier dates if they can, or when they can but overall there is a delay.

The ECM will receive their copy of the notice of appeal that has been submitted on your behalf when your appeal has been processed. The papers are sent to the ECM as soon as your appeal is being lodged in the system, but because there is a delay in lodging the appeals there is a delay in the ECM getting the documents.

The delay is with issuing the Hearing dates.

The ECM usually do not respond unless they feel that they have 100% chance of not getting a decision in their favour if they feel that they even have a 1% chance they usually do not reply and just let the matter proceed to appeal.

Usually visit visas do not have a full right of appeal but because you are planning to get married in the UK then because of the effects of you not getting married in the UK on you and your family and on your fiancee's family then the home office can issue rights of appeal. But if you applied for a fiancee visa then rights of appeal should be granted, in either case the home office seemed to have made a mistake and therefore it is something that your legal representative should be making the tribunal aware of.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

What do you mean, by they are giving earlier dates if possible, with regards XXXXX XXXXX hearing date?

If the appeal was to be processed this week, how long will it take the appeals tribunal to send off the notice to the ECM, is it within 28 days?

I'm sorry if I've asked this already, but does the 19 weeks ECM review period start from the day the appeal is lodged i.e. 13th Aug 2013 or this week, once it gets processed or after the 28 days, after the ECM has received the notice of appeal? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

What I mean by that is that the tribunal is issuing earlier dates where possible, if they issue you with a hearing date and another hearing date then subsequently becomes available the home office will write to you with an earlier Hearing date.

The tribunal will write to the Home office as soon as they process the appeal number , as soon as your appeal number is XXXXX the documents are sent to the ECM.

The ECM has 19 weeks from the date the appeal is processed and an appeal number issued. It does not start from the date the appeal is lodge.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

May I ask you one final question re the 19 weeks ECM review period. If the ECM believes that the matter is 100% NOT in their favour, are they likely to sit on it for the whole of the 19 weeks period, then overturn it, or overturn it before the 19 weeks period?
I have also read cases, where the ECM overturns the decision a few days before the hearing date or on the day of the hearing date? Who decides to take the matter to court, is it the home office or an independent adjudicator, please? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The EMC can overturn the decision before the end 19 weeks.

2. The EMC decides to overturn the decision no one else.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for you inputs.

That is understood. But my question is who decides to take the matter to a hearing tribunal, should the ECM uphold the original decision, please?

And have you come across cases where an ECM has overturned their decision before the expiry of the 19 weeks period? Or is it rare? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The ECM is the one who decides to take the case to the Tribunal if he decides to uphold the decision then the case automatically goes to the Tribunal for the Hearing.

2. There have been cases when the ECM has decided to overturn their decision but this is rare. If your grounds for appeal which were sent with the notice of appeal are clear and clearly state where the ECM has made a mistake in their decision, then the ECM would overturn their decision.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs. Much appreciated.

I would like to ask, would new immigration rules re to a fiance visa, affect an ongoing appeal in any way?

Thanks,

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 11 months ago.
Thank you for your question.


No, any new changes to the immigration rules will not effect an ongoing appeal or application. Regardless of what changes come into force while your appeal is pending it will not effect your case in anyway.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask you with regards XXXXX XXXXX UK fiance visa. After I get granted a UK fiance visa and I get married within 6 months, what happens next?

After how long would I be eligible for Indefinite Leave to Remain, please?

And at which stage am I allowed to end the marriage and still be allowed to stay in the UK permanently without being under the mercy of the UKBA or Home Office, please?

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. After you get married you need to switch to a spouse visa. You can apply for this inside the uk and do not need to leave the uk. Please see following link :

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/partners-families/citizens-settled/spouse-cp/applying-in-uk/

2. After you have been in the uk for 5 consecutive years you will then be able to apply for indefinite leave to remain.

3. You will not be subject to immigration control once you have obtained indefinite leave to remain. Before that if your marriage breaks down you would need to leave the uk.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

I thought after I get married, I can apply for FLR(M), which lasts for two and a half years and then a further extension which last for another two and a half years?

Is the minimum 5 consecutive years for ILR?

How does obtaining a British passport and nationality work after that?

Thanks.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes the FLR M is a spouse visa application which is submitted from inside the UK and yes it will be issued for 2.5 years and then a further 2.5 years.

2. Yes the minimum time you must spend in the UK is 5 years. You are unable to submit an ILR application prior to completing this time.

3. After you have held indefinite leave to remain in the UK for 1 year you can then apply for British citizenship. So the total amount of time you would have spent in the UK would be 6 years (2.5 plus 2.5 plus 1 year on indefinite leave to remain)

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

The appeals tribunal have finally confirmed the payment last week and said that they would be sending out the appeal bundle starting from last week. So 19 weeks from last week, plus holidays, would mean that the ECM review period would expire on 17th Feb 2014.

My question is, if I don't hear from the ECM after 18 weeks have elapsed, should I send them an e-mail to enquire about the matter?

And how will I know if the matter is proceeding to a hearing?

Next, is a hearing date given approximately 6 months after lodging the appeal? So if I lodged mines in August, a hearing date is likely to be in March or April 2014?

Finally, how long after the appeal is won, does a visa get issued? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. There is nothing preventing you from sending the letter to them now stating the reason why you feel that your application was wrongly refused. The ECM after 19 weeks will contact the tribunal or in some case before this date to state that they wish to either continue or withdraw the appeal and reconsider their decision.

2. In most cases and in my experience if the grounds your legal representative has stated are not convincing enough for the ECM to overturn their decision the they will contact the tribunal and inform them. The only time you will find out about the appeal proceeding will be when the Tribunal contact you informing you of an appeal date.

3. You are correct an appeal date will usually be issued to you for around April 2014, however due to the back long there maybe a slight delay.

4. The time in being issued with a visa and being issued with a positive decision is around 4-8 weeks, the reason for this is that the tribunal needs to contact the embassy in your country which will then intern ask for you to send your passport to them so they can issue you with a visa. It all depends on how long the Tribunal takes to communicate their decision to the embassy in your home counrty, but as a rough estimate I would say 4-8 weeks.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

Sorry, but what do you mean by
'There is nothing preventing you from sending the letter to them now stating the reason why you feel that your application was wrongly refused.'
The appeals tribunal have already sent out the appeal bundle and should reach the embassy within the next few weeks. So I don't see the point in sending them another letter? Or do you mean e-mail? Can you kindly clarify. Thanks.

I'm no expert in immigration law, but I believe that my legal representative has highlighted every point in the appeal bundle. All the points are in my favour, i.e. there are no errors on my side, no documents missing or anything. So hopefully they will make a sensible decision.

Finally, are the UKBA likely to admit to making an unlawful decision? i.e. a decision that is not in accordance with the immigration rules or guidelines? My legal representative says it's highly unlikely for the matter to proceed to court, as the UKBA would have to admit to their unlawful decision and they are unlikely to do so.

Plus, they have to give a reason for upholding their decision, before the matter can proceed to court, is that correct? Thanks.

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. By a letter I meant a reconsideration letter, just a letter from your stating the reason why you feel the application should not have been refused. This is just a mechanism with which you can speed up the process if they decide to take note of what you have stated in the letter.

2. If you believe that your legal rep has stated all the points against your refusal them the ECM should take note of this when deciding whether to go ahead with the appeal or not.

3. The ECM would not acknowledge and knowingly state that they have made an incorrect decision, it would normally be a case that they will state, after further consideration it has been decided that your visa should be issued, they would not accept liability, just that they have reconsidered it and reach a decision in your favour.

4. Yes the ECM will need to consider the application and provide reasons why they believe that the decision should be upheld. This is usually included in the ECM's bundle which is sent to the Tribunal.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Should the letter state the same points highlighted by my legal representative or just in my own words, please? Also, should the letter be sent to the embassy via local post or via e-mail? Thanks


I just don't know what other reason(s) the ECM would come up with to uphold their decision, if the only issue was the ban. And that is due to expire is just over 2 months?

What I meant is if the ECO has made an illegal decision, which is my case h/she has, they would not want to take the matter to court, as that would mean they'd have to admit of their wrongdoing, which is a big risk, am I correct in saying this? Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Letter to the embassy could be both your take on events and also the legal points stated by your legal rep. The letter can be sent via email and post

2. I hope that the ECM does not have a reason for going to appeal but knowing the home office they always come up with a reason no matter how unreasonable it may be.

3. If the case does proceed to court and the home office does look incompetent this would not be the first time, the home office as stated earlier would rather take the matter to the Tribunal than issue you with a visa.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards



UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 10 months ago.

To UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask, is the ECM allowed to use new reasons and new evidence to uphold their decision, upon reviewing the appeal bundle? I.e. new reasons not relating to the last refusal, under paragraph 320(7b). As I've heard that both the appellant and the ECM are not allowed to produce new evidence etc

Can you kindly clarify this? Thanks

Also, if a decision was to be overturned, does that usually happen before the expiry of the 19 weeks period? And how long does it take a visa to be stamped after a decision has been overturned? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes what you have heard is correct , you are unable to provide new evidence at the appeal stage, this is because the judge would want to know what documents the decision was based on and not new documents which the immigration officer did not have in front of him during the time of making the decision.

You can submit documents which clarify a documents you may already have submitted ie documents which may have omitted details which or information that the home office would require.

2. If the decision is overturned, yes this usually happens within the 19 weeks and this is the time the immigration officer has to inform the tribunal of their decision.

3. If the visa is granted it is usually issued within 2-4 weeks of the decision being overturned. They should contact you and ask you to submit your passport, they then issue it and return the passport to you.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

My question is, is the ECM allowed to raise new issues, come up with a new reason (e.g. regarding any previous applications) other than the reasons already stated in the refusal notice, in relation to this particular refusal (fiance visa refusal)? Thanks

Also, once the decision is overturned, does the tribunal or embassy inform me or write to me? I.e. If I haven't heard anything after 19 weeks, should I call up the appeals tribunal? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. No, the ECM would not state any other reasons to the ones that he has stated already in the letter of refusal.

2. Once a decision has been overturned it will be the embassy which will be in touch with you. You not not call the tribunal as if they do not get back to you within 19 weeks it just means the case has gone to appeal and the delay is due to the tribunal trying to appoint you a Hearing date.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you.

If the ECM overturns the decision, would the tribunal be informed of this? And would the tribunal write a letter to confirm this?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

The ECM would inform the tribunal and the tribunal would write to confirm the same, but you would usually be informed earlier as the ECM's decision to overturn the case would be sent to you first.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Do you agree that the following statement is incorrect, please?

"I am concerned by your statement that your Fiance is an EEA national exercising Treaty Rights in the UK. If this is the case then you should NOT have applied for a Fiance visa.
To join your EEA Partner in the UK you would either need to prove 2 years co-habitation for a relationship akin to marriage or be married (durable relationship). You cannot get a Fiance visa to join an EEA National in the UK. You would actually need to apply at best for a visit for marriage visa and then leave and apply for an EEA Family visa once married.
Based on your statement above it might be the case that the High Commission has not made a mistake at all and that you were making the wrong type of application?"

My argument:

My sponsor has been exercising treaty rights and HAS provided 5 years worth of bank statements, payslips, p60s, proof of previous addresses, to cover the whole period of 5 years, because he does not have an EEA residence card, but I was advised it is not a requirement to have such a card, as long as you can prove 5 years worth of supporting documents, proving that he has worked and lived in the UK for 5 years, which he has.

So I doubt that the embassy has made a correct decision based on this information.

Can you kindly confirm that I was provided with an incorrect answer? Because as far as I know, 5 years worth of supporting evidence (EU sponsor)= settled person.

Many thanks and kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Fiancé(e)s and proposed civil partners are not recognised as family members or extended family members in the EEA Regulations unless they can show they are in durable relationship. However, provisions have been made for fiancé (e)s and proposed civil partners of EEA nationals paragraph 290 of the Immigration Rules (now appendix fm).

Fiancé(e)s and proposed civil partners of EEA nationals applying under these Rules will have to pay the usual fee, in your case you have paid the required fees for your fiancee visa application. For the purposes paragraph 290 of the Immigration Rules , an EEA national who is a qualified person in the UK is considered as present and settled if they have permanent residence as set out under schedule 2 of the EEA Regulations.

An application as the fiancé / proposed civil partner of an EEA national can only be considered if the specified fee has been paid. This is because the ECO will need to assess the application under the Immigration Rules and not the EEA Regulations. An applicant who does not qualify for an EEA family permit can only be considered against the Immigration rules once the specified fee is paid.

Regulation 31 of the Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations 2009 clearly says that if an application to be assessed under the Immigration Rules is not accompanied by the specified fee, the application is not validly made.

In your case you do not qualify for a durable relationship because you are not applying as an unmarried partner, your application is based on the fact that you wish to marry in the UK and then settle in the UK. As stated above you need to apply for a fiancee visa and then switch in country to an EEA residence permit. There is nothing preventing you from making a fiancee visa application to the Home Office, the home office have refused your application due to the ban not because an incorrect application has been made. If this was the case your refusal letter was have made this clear and no write of appeal would have been given because your application would have been deemed incorrect thus invalid.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you so much for your inputs.

That's what I though.

Just to re-iterate please, my EU sponsor has been eligible to support my UK fiance application due to the fact that he is a settled person in the UK?Not just exercising treaty rights (on the UKBA site, it mentions that a UK fiance visa is for those who either have a British sponsor or a settled person sponsor, which is in my case)


My adviser told me that it wasn't necessary to have an EEA residence card (although it makes things easier), as long as we provide 5 years worth of supporting documents, proving that my sponsor has lived and worked in the UK for at least 5 years? Is that correct?

Yes, I totally agree, if the application was incorrect, I wouldn't have been given full rights of appeal. And they would have mentioned that on the refusal notice. But they didn't. The UKBA was only bothered by the re-entry ban.

Do you think that there may be a possibility that the ECO may have not understood that 5 years worth of supporting evidence for my sponsor qualifies him as a settled person? Hence, he/she treated my application as a marriage visitor visa? Thanks

Finally, do you think that the refusal had anything to do with statelessness? It doesn't make sense, as I've been granted leave to the UK several times.Plus, my sponsor would be supporting me financially, so I wouldn't been on benefits etc and I've never overstayed or claimed benefits before.

Many thanks for your time and efforts.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In your case, he is settled in the UK because he has been exercising treaty rights in the UK which means that after 5 years he is automatically a settled person.

2. In respect of the residence card, yes that is correct the fact that he has been working in the UK for 5 years means that permanent residency is automatically bestowed upon him, although yes the card stating permanent residency would help, as long as you have sent 5 years work of documentary evidence this would be sufficient.

3. It may be the case that he has mistaken your application for a fiancee visa as a marriage visitor, however, in any event if this is the case then it not your fault, your legal adviser would have stated this in his grounds of appeal and brought this to the home office's attention.

4. I do not think it has anything to do with any other issue apart from the fact that you were banned from the UK at the time of application. This is the only issue in question. If you have been to the UK on previous occasions on visits then there is nothing preventing them from admitting you to the UK on a fiancee visa.

Its a pleasure and I hope this clarifies the matter,

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

I agree with the points you mention above.

With re to point 4, is there such a rule by the UKBA to prevent stateless persons from coming to the UK? I could perhaps understand if they were unemployed and seeking to come to the UK as a visitor, as this may pose a risk of them overstaying and claiming asylum etc,

but I'm not applying for a visitor visa this time round, I am applying for a fiance visa and my sponsor is entitled to marry who he wants? I do not need to show my financial situation to the UKBA, as my partner would be sponsoring me and supporting me financially.

So if they were preventing me from coming to the UK on a fiance visa, that would be a breach of both of our human rights. Plus, I think if the stateless would be an issue, they would state that on the refusal letter. It doesn't make sense for the UKBA to refuse me on that basis, if I've been granted a visitor and student leave to the UK before? Am I correct in saying that? Thanks

Does the ECO 'not know' that paragraph 320 (7b) DOES NOT apply to settlement type visas? That's bizarre.

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I agree with the points you have made and no there is no rule to prevent stateless individuals entry to the UK specially if they are following the correct path by applying for the required visa and then entering the UK.

If your sponsor is willing to maintain you and has provided evidence of this by providing his bank statements then this should be sufficient for them.

If there were to prevent you from marrying in the uk yes this would a breach of his human rights and the ECM knows this. The fact about you being stateless was not stated in the refusal letter therefore I would not be concerned with issued not raised in the refusal letter.

In addition it just seems the the ECM has ignored the fact that fiancee visa's should not be denied entry due to paragraph 320 7 not applying. It does seem like an incorrect decision and I hope they overturn this sooner rather than later.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you so much for your reply.

With re to the following point you made earlier:
4. I do not think it has anything to do with any other issue apart from the fact that you were banned from the UK at the time of application. This is the only issue in question.

Do you mean the re-entry ban under paragraph 320 (7b)? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes, the fact that you were refused entry to the UK due to your 1 year ban , it seems to be the only thing that was of concern to the ECM, had there been other issues of concern the ECM would have mentioned them.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 10 months ago.

Thank you for clarifying the question.

One final question, please:

Does my previous 'clean' immigration history to the UK count in my favour? Especially with regards XXXXX XXXXX stateless issue. I mean, it doesn't make sense to all of a sudden be concerned with that status issue, if I have been granted leave on numerous occasions, is that correct, please?

Have you ever come across a case like mines?

Many thanks.

You are by far the best UK immigration expert on this website.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply and your compliment, I appreciate your positive ratings.

In respect of your question of course the home office look at previous immigration history and it does help the immigration officer make a decision.

The fact you being stateless did not have an effect on you previously being granted a visa and the fact it was not mentioned in your refusal letter also points to the fact it is not something which had any effect on the decision made.

I have not had cases where stateless individuals have been involved but I have had cases where fiancé visa applications and appeals have been made and granted.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

You're welcome.

Thank you for clarifying this matter.

I meant, have you dealt with previous cases where a fiance visa application was treated as a marriage visitor visa, and was subsequently refused under paragraph 320 7?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I have not dealt with cases where the refusal has been exactly the same, but I have dealt with cases where applications have been refused under paragraph 320 (7).

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I have a few questions which I'd like to ask you in relation to the appeal process, please:

1) Is it appropriate to e-mail the embassy after 14th Dec, to confirm that they have received my documents from the tribunal? (As there is no other way of confirming it otherwise and I just want to be rest assured)

Also, what format does the e-mail have to be in? e.g. to those concerned, my appeal number etc?

2) Can I ask them what method of correspondence do they use to contact the applicant? (phone, letter or email)

3)How much time is the ECM given to prepare a bundle for a settlement appeal hearing? I've read it's 90 working days on the UKBA's site. So does that mean that hearing would be 90 working days approx after the expiry of the ECM review period?

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/general-info/appeals/


If the ECM does not overturn the decision, an entry clearance officer (ECO) will write a statement explaining why the ECM has upheld the decision to refuse your application. We will send this and all your papers (known as 'the appeal bundle') to the FTTIAC. We will prepare and send your appeal bundle within:



  • 20 working days for non-settlement and family visitor cases; or

  • 90 working days for settlement cases.


These timings exclude postage times to and from the visa office.




4) How long after the expiry of the ECM review period, do we receive a letter from the appeals tribunal, confirming the hearing date?

Thanks.

Kind regards.




 

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. In respect of emailing the embassy, you can do this should you wish and ask the embassy to revert back to you with an update on your matter. The email should start as dear Sirs, and should state your name, nationality, date of birth, home office reference number and also the appeal number ( if one has been allocated it will be something along the lines OA/1234/2013)

2. There is nothing preventing you asking them questions in respect of method of contact , it depends on whether the embassy will be forthcoming with any answered to your question.

3. What happens is that the home office send the bundle to the tribunal and they then send the bundle out to your legal representative. Because of the delay in processing appeals the time it takes for an appeal Hearing has increased from 90 days, but ideally yes it should be around 90 days from the time the Tribunal receive the bundle from the embassy.

Also as stated above it depends on what postage the embassy uses usually its the least expensive one so it can take up to 2 weeks for some post to arrive.

4. This again depends on how long the home office take to post the bundle to the tribunal and also how long they take to communicate their decision to the tribunal. It is usually within the 19 week period but I would state that due to the delay it can be longer.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

What I meant regarding the 90 working days is, is that included within the 19 weeks in which the ECM has to review the papers, or is the ECM given 'extra time' to prepare an appeal bundle for a hearing?

Essentially the ECM has until the hearing date to prepare the bundle, if he or she doesn't overturn the original decision, is that correct?

Or does the deadline for preparing an appeal bundle end after the 19 weeks, please? Thanks

Finally, is it 90 working days or 90 days, after the expiry of the 19 weeks, does the hearing take place? So we're look at around 3 months after Feb 21st for a hearing date, which would be approximately in May?

Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The 90 days is in addition to the 19 weeks, because in the 19 weeks the ECM needs to inform the Tribunal of its decision and then after that send the bundle across.

2. The ECM has 5 working days prior to the Hearing date to submit the bundle , but in almost all cases the ECM sends the bundle at least a month before the Hearing date.

3. Its 90 days not working days, so yes you would be look at around 3 months , but due to the delay in issuing Hearing dates it can be longer as is the case at this moment.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

Can you kindly clarify why it states 90 working days as oppose to 90 days on the UKBA's website? Thanks

Please see under 'What happens next?'

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/general-info/appeals/

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs.

Can you kindly clarify why it states 90 working days as oppose to 90 days on the UKBA's website?

Please see under 'What happens next?'

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/general-info/appeals/

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

On the website it states 90 working days but usually the reply is within 90 days. It is very rare that it takes 90 working days, plus working days are different I'm different countries, therefore the reply is usually within 90 days after the initial 19 weeks of waiting for the ecms decision to be communicated to the tribunal.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Its a pleasure.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I have read that it's becoming a common trend for the UKBA to withdraw before the hearing or a few hrs before the hearing day itself. Can the UKBA still withdraw their decision before a hearing date?

And does it mean that the appellant has won the case, if the UKBA withdraws their decision before the hearing? Or is the appellant left at the mercy of the UKBA once again?

Does it take approximately 12 weeks to get a call letter (to submit the passport) after the UKBA has withdrawn their decision to proceed to a hearing?

If I don't hear after the expiry of the 19 weeks period, do I presume that it's going to a hearing?

Finally, if the UKBA decides to overturn their original decision at any point, does the tribunal and does my representative get a written confirmation? Or just a call in letter? (either phone, post or email)

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes the home office can withdraw the decision at any time they wish but usually it is within the 19 weeks period.

2. If the decision is withdrawn the home office usually grant the visa application.

3. The decision to issue you with a visa can be before or 3 months period.

4. Yes if the home office overturned the decision your representative will get a notice in writing.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

If I don't hear from the home office after 19 weeks, do I assume that the matter is heading straight for a hearing?

How will I know if the decision has been overturned, will the home office inform the tribunal, after which the tribunal sends out a letter to my representative? Or does the home office contact me directly?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply

1. Yes if you haven't heard in the 19 weeks then usually in most cases the case will be heading for a hearing date, the ECM do not take longer than this period to withdraw their decision.

2. If your visa is granted then the embassy will write to you asking for your passport so they can issue I you with a visa. It would be around the same time as the tribunal will write to your representative in the UK.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your quick response.

How long is it currently taking to get a hearing date, after the 19 weeks have expired, please? Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

At the moment in time it is taking between 6-8 weeks to issue a hearing date. Appeals from the uk are taking at least 6 months to process, appeals from outside the uk will take longer.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Can you kindly clarify what you mean by your last statement, please:

'Appeals from the uk are taking at least 6 months to process, appeals from outside the uk will take longer'.

Do you mean it's taking about 6 months inside the UK from the start of the appeal till the end of the appeal? And about 9 months for the entire duration of appeals from abroad? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes that is correct, it's a rough estimate but it is taking 6 months in the uk and at least 9 months outside of the uk.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Has being refused entry on arrival last year and receiving a re-entry ban under paragraph 320 (7b) had an affect on my UK immigration history? Even though the ban is unjust and hence I am appealing the last refusal based on paragraph 320?

Am I doing the correct thing by appealing?

And if I win the appeal, would it remove this bad mark off my record?

The re-entry ban expires in less than a month, doesn't that mean that after it expires, there will no longer be a bad mark on my record?

Is there a bad mark on my immigration record as it stands? And would this make it difficult to obtain visas in the future?

Finally, how come at the time when they refused me entry last year, they didn't tell me that I was being refused for another year? I only found out when I applied for a visa last Feb.

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In respect of you appealing the ban, i believe it is the correct thing you are doing, you do not want it to be the case where you are banned and you do not appeal, the Home office will then think they made the correct decision by banning you, so by you appealing the decision they will have it in their records that you never accepted the ban and always contested it.

2. If you win the appeal the ban will be overturned and removed from your records

3. Having a ban does not effect your future applications provided that it has lapsed , which in your case it will in the next month or so. Although the home office will have on their record that you were previously banned it will not prejudice your future applications.

4. The immigration office should have made you aware for the reasons of refusal, it is the fault of the home office for not informing you of why you were being refused and for what purpose.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

I agree. I wanted to appeal last Feb, however my rights of appeal were limited due to it being a general visit entry clearance. This time round, however, it's a settlement entry clearance with a full right of appeal.

The home office did inform me about the reasons I was refused entry, albeit not so clearly. But they never told me that I was being refused under paragraph 320 (7b) for 12 months. I only found out when I applied for entry clearance as a visitor to visit my fiance last Feb, that I was subsequently refused for 12 months. I was shocked to say the least.

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In respect of your appeal rights yes you are correct, visitor visas only have a limited rights of appeal, so It would make more sense to appeal for your current refusal which gives you full rights of appeal.

2.In respect of the refusal they should have informed you of the ban and made it clear why how long the ban will be in place.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

I asked the immigration officer who interviewed me, 'Would this have any affect on any future applications?', he smiled and said 'No and that I could apply for entry clearance the very next day, if I wanted'. Obviously it's a deliberate deception on the immigration officer's behalf. I'm annoyed with what they did to me.


 


All that I was told was that I have a right of appeal and frankly after being detained for over 14 hrs. I just couldn't take any more of it.

It was a blessing in a way that I wasn't permitted, as I had a warrant out for an ongoing matter with my partner and had I been allowed in, the case would have dragged on and my partner would not be able to drop charges. As the main reason why he was allowed to do so, was primarily for the fact that I was not in the country.

To this day I have no idea, why the home office brought up this arrest at the interview and failed to mention it on the refusal notice? I think they were trying to intimidate me. Because if the arrest was so important, they would have definitely mentioned it, right? It's another blessing that they didn't mention anything about the interview. As I wasn't forthcoming as I should have been.

The UKBA pick on the wrong people at times. Especially those who are doing it by the book etc like myself. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do, but wait this appeal out.

Many thanks and kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

It is unfortunate that you have had to go through this experience but the immigration officer should have made clear that you are banned for a year and any visa application would automatically be refused.

If the case does go to a Hearing you may wish to mention this to the judge to make them aware of what was send at the time. Apart from that you just need to go through the motions and get through the Hearing if required.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

I know. But I wasn't told any of this. All they were keen about was to put me on that next flight back. I felt like I was being treated like a criminal. Is there any way of complaining about the ill treatment I received at the port last year? Perhaps at the hearing?

I think if the matter does not proceed to court and the original decision gets overturned, I would just be glad of the outcome and I won't bother complaining.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes you should bring the incident to the judges attention and inform him/her what occurred on the day.

It would not be worth complaining about if you get issued with a visa prior to the Hearing but certainly at the Hearing you should mention this. A also hope the decision gets overturned and you do not have to go through the Hearing process.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Is it appropriate for my representative or sponsor or both of them to mention details of what happened on that day, in front of the immigration judge (if and when a hearing takes place)?

The two people that escorted me were rude. One of them was particularly rude and heavy handed in his tactics. He verbally insulted me and called me a term, I don't remember what it was, but it refers to those who try and 'jump' the border, i.e. illegals. He was intimidating towards me and slammed doors in my face, leaving me to open them myself. I don't remember their names though. Is it necessary to know their names?

But as for the interviewing officer who deceived me, his initials are on the papers which were given to me at port, last Dec. Can I present those to the judge?

However, I didn't complain about this ill treatment in the grounds of appeal. Are we allowed to do so at the hearing? As I think we're not allowed to introduce new evidence at the hearing? Can you kindly confirm this.

I didn't tell my barrister to mention this in the grounds of appeal. But he did mention that the immigration officer deceived me, in the legal submissions, that was supplied along with my last application in July.

I hope so too, that this matter doesn't escalate to a hearing. Thank you so much for your insight and supporting words.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes there is nothing at all preventing your sponsor or legal rep from stating the incidences which took place on that day and bring to the judges attention the way you were treated. Although you will not be able to name individuals you can just state the home office or UKBA who treated you in this manner. You can show the judge the initials of the immigration office , but in reality you will be complaining about the organisation and not an individual.

2. There is nothing preventing your legal rep to amend the grounds of appeal and sending them to the tribunal. However, I would suggest that you state all these incidences in your statement which will be read by the judge and he/she can decide using that evidence accordingly.

3. You are unable to submit evidence post decision, but anything that occurred prior to your refusal you can bring to the attention of the judge and submit evidence regarding it at there Hearing.

Its a pleasure, I hope it all goes well for you.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

I would prefer not to amend the grounds of appeal at this stage, as the appeal is at the ECM review stage as it stands and it would delay matters further. If the matter proceeds to court (which I hope not), then I will make sure to complain about the UKBA's ill treatment. But if the decision gets overturned beforehand, then I will be glad with that and won't proceed the matter any further.

Thank you for your help and advice though. Much appreciated.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

If that is what you wish then it is fine, lets hope the decision is overturned.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask, in the settlement cases which you've handled, has it always been the appellant's fault i.e. missing documents etc or have there been cases where the ECO was completely at fault i.e. an error of law?

Any success stories re settlement appeals so far, if I may ask?

Does the tribunal send the my grounds of appeal to the post via diplomatic post? Or normal post? And does the post then send the appeal bundle to the tribunal via diplomatic post or normal post?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What usually happens in most cases is that when the home office refuse an application then they only overturn it if you write a letter of reconsideration or a mention the discrepancies in the grounds of appeal then they admit their mistake and issue the visa. But in most cases they like to take the case to court and try and win it.

2. Usually 70-80 percent of settlement appeals are allowed.

3. The bundle is sent via the embassies special couriers service both to and from the uk.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for clarifying the matter.

What do you mean by a letter of reconsideration please? I thought that administrative reviews are only for points based applications and that there is no admin review available for settlement applications and so they have to go through the appeals process in order to get a decision overturned, can you kindly clarify this? Thanks

Is the embassy's special courier service the same as diplomatic post?

Do you think the embassy over here would have received my documents from the tribunal by now? They were sent during the second week of Oct.

There is no way of knowing that the embassy has received it, unless I email them?

Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Regarding the letter of reconsideration, I do this as a matter of course regardless of if the home office accepts this or not . I have done this on a few occasions and they have overturned their decision, so it's all about doing what you can to get a positive decision.

2. The post maybe the diplomatic service in some cases but all i know is that the service is prompt and reliable.

3. I cannot say for sure as the tribunal does have a back log, but strictly speaking they should have arrived.

4 . Unfortunately there is no way to find out, as you stated you can try and emailing them and finding out.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your response.

I think it's sensible to go down the appeal route, just in case the home office choose to ignore the letter.

By a letter do you mean an e-mail or via post to the embassy?

My representative is a barrister, he says it's not his duty to chase the matter up (by e-mailing the ECM etc) and that all he can do in the meantime is await the response from the embassy, if they do respond and if not, then he will represent me at a hearing. Should I look for a solicitor to help me draft a letter instead? I mean, I don't see much point at the moment, since the ECM would have received the docs.

Also, I've read in some cases, that if you pester the ECM, they might get annoyed and take longer or they might ignore the e-mail altogether.

I would like to e-mail the embassy after the 14th of next month. How can I word it in a way that doesn't backfire? 'Can I say, could you kindly get back to me with an update on my matter?' For example?

Also, is the ECM allowed to use previous refusals to challenge my grounds of appeal, like the refusal on entry last year?

Thanks

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

I would suggest that you ask for a reconsideration within 2 months of refusal however in your case you have already mentioned all the points in your grounds of appeal therefore I would not recommend that you now write or email them to ask them to reconsider their decision.

I recommend that you let the home office go through its process and decide what they wish to do after reading your grounds of appeal , unfortunately it's just a waiting game for now.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

It's been more than 3 months since the refusal. Therefore, I think it's best to sit and wait, like you said.

What's their usual means of contact, letter, phone or email? I received a phone call about my last interview, so I would guess it would be a phone call.

Is the ECM allowed to use previous refusals to challenge my grounds of appeal, like the refusal on entry last year?

Is it appropriate to email the embassy after the ban expires, asking them to confirm whether they've received my docs and also to request an update on my matter? Thanks

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

It's been more than 3 months since the refusal. Therefore, I think it's best to sit and wait, like you said.

What's their usual means of contact, letter, phone or email? I received a phone call about my last interview, so I would guess it would be a phone call.

Is the ECM allowed to use previous refusals to challenge my grounds of appeal, like the refusal on entry last year?

Is it appropriate to email the embassy after the ban expires, asking them to confirm whether they've received my docs and also to request an update on my matter? Thanks

I have a gut feeling, that I would not hear anything till after the expiry of the ban. The holidays are coming up, they might not want this matter to burden them into the new year. So hopefully they would see sense and overturn it.

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Regarding means of contact they prefer either a letter or an email. They only contact by telephone when they need to.

2. The ECM can only use your previous refusals if they attracted a ban, ie 1 year or 5 year ban.

3. There is nothing preventing you from emailing the embassy, it would then be up to them whether they wish to reply for your query.

4. I believe you are correct and waiting would be the best way to find out how your case will turn out. I hope they see sense in your case especially after your ban expires.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs. Just to clarify a few points, please.

What do you mean by your previous statement:

2. The ECM can only use your previous refusals if they attracted a ban, ie 1 year or 5 year ban.

Do you mean the ECM can challenge my grounds of appeal by mentioning that the re-entry ban was active at the time of the application? Although it didn't apply in the case of a settlement application. Anything the ECM would challenge has to be backed up by evidence, is that correct?

Also, in cases where the ECM overturns their original decision, does it usually happen on the day of the deadline or a few weeks before?

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What I meant was that the only way the home office can use previous refusals to prejudice your application is if you applied and there was a ban on you from making visa applications to the UKBA for a visa. In this case they should not have applied the ban at all but they have still wrongly refused it. But in cases where the ban was correct they can refuse applications on that basis.

2. Yes the ECM has to provide evidence of what they believe is correct to the tribunal.

3. The overturning of a decision can happen at anytime, unless they have stated that they wish to proceed to court, then only on very rare basis do they overturn the decision.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

If the ECM was to say that the ban was active at the time of the application and provide the dates, could the matter still proceed to a hearing?

Can you kindly clarify the following point, please:

3. The overturning of a decision can happen at anytime, unless they have stated that they wish to proceed to court, then only on very rare basis do they overturn the decision.

You mean, once they decide to take it to court, they rarely overturn it before a hearing?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes the case can proceed to a hearing because the ECM should have over looked the ban because you applied for a fiancee visa. This is the basis of the appeal.

2. Once the case is set for a Hearing the home office very rarely overturn their own decision, they leave it for the judge to decide the matter.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Can you kindly clarify this point:


1. Yes the case can proceed to a hearing because the ECM should have over looked the ban because you applied for a fiancee visa. This is the basis of the appeal.

How can it proceed to a hearing if the ECM overlooked the ban?

Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

This is because the home office can refuse applications for the wrong reasons and then decide not to overturn the decision. Just because they refuse to overturn their decision does not mean that the hearing cannot proceed to court, as stated the court does overturn decisions simply because the ukba made the incorrect decision and should have overturned it.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

That is understood. But in order for the ukba to challenge my appeal, they have to provide evidence along with the reasons for upholding their decision (if that was the case). I don't see where and how they will provide evidence to challenge any of the grounds of appeal, as that would mean that they would be contradicting their own rules and guidelines?
I think they would struggle to come up with evidence to support their claims.

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes that would be the case but this would not prevent the home office trying to challenge the case at the tribunal. It is this what I mean when I said the home office can still bring the case at court, whether they succeed or not is another matter.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
Experience: I am a qualified solicitor and an expert in UK law.
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

May I ask whether a letter of consideration is a hand-written or typed up letter to the embassy and it's send through post, or is it an e-mail to the visa section to the embassy? If you could kindly clarify this.

Many thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I would suggest that you post the letter to the embassy and email them it to them also just so you can confirm receipt.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for all your help and advice.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Its a pleasure.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to know how long is it currently taking to get a hearing date, are they issued after the 19 weeks ECM review period, or before that? Depending on how quick the ECM responds?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

The appeal dates are being set after the 19 weeks period. They are not issued prior to this date to give the ecm as much time as possible to reconsider their decision.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

How long is it currently taking to receive a hearing date, after the 19 weeks have expired, please?

And do both the applicant and sponsor need to supply bank statements in support of a fiance visa? Or is the sponsor only required to provide bank statements.

Finally, what does 'In refusing the application no determination has been made as to whether the applicant meets the minimum income requirement. However, we have assessed that, regardless of whether the minimum income requirement is met, the application falls for refusal under the rules'?

The above was quoted on my last refusal notice. If you could kindly clarify what they mean by that?

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. At this moment in time it is taking around 4-6 months to obtain a Hearing date.

2. It is totally up to you, both you and your partner may provide evidence of finances. However in respect of the immigration rules it is the sponsor in the UK who must meet the financial requirements not the applicant.

3. What that means is that although they have not taken into account the sponsors income in respect of the application, however even if they had done so your application still would have been refused ON OTHER GROUNDS apart from the income requirement, which in your case would be the ban they have imposed on you.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

With regards XXXXX XXXXX 3, why haven't they taken into consideration my sponsor's income? Have they not treated it as a fiance visa?

Also, I am not in employment as I'm a student, so is it necessary to show my savings etc, which I haven't got much, despite my sponsor earning well in excess of the minimum requirement, per annum?

I mean, is the financial situation in question or it's just the re-entry ban, according to the refusal notice, please?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply

1. The reason they have stated this is because what they have said is that regardless of your partner's income your application would have been refused so they have not had the need to take anything into account regarding the income.

2. No the income threshold must only be met by the sponsor so in this case they would not have taken your income into account.

3. What they have basically stated is that they saw the ban on your application and didnt consider it any further. This is what they are stating by not needed to take into account your partner's income.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

That in itself is a bad decision. I mean the fact that, they most likely just glanced over my application, and refused me, without looking into it any further, is very poor indeed.

Thanks anyway.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes unfortunately the UKBA are known to make decisions which are incorrect, lets just hope the immigration judge can decide in your favor.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

It hasn't reached a hearing yet, still got to wait another 12 weeks for the ECM to decide.

Is a barrister allowed to chase up the ECM through sending an e-mail, as per the Bar rules?

Thanks for your insight.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

He is able to do that if he is registered for direct access ie able to act for clients directly, if he is not then he is not able to do so.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

In case my barrister cannot send e-mails, can someone else from the same firm do so? As long as it is from the same firm? Because I don't think I'm allowed to consult another solicitor from another firm, is that correct?


 


Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 9 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

If there is a solicitor present in the firm then he/she should be able to send this. You cannot have two firms on record if you have a firm on Record already.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I have called up the BHC this morning to enquire about the progress of my appeal and the person I spoke to said that the documents were sent back to the UK on 2nd Dec 2013, a couple of days ago. She couldn't tell me whether the ECM has upheld the original decision or not, as the person in charge of appeals isn't in today. All she knows is that it was received on 29th Oct 2013, so approximately 2 weeks after the appeals tribunal sent the docs out, and that it has been sent back on 2nd Dec 2013.

My questions are as follows:

Should I presume that the ECM has upheld the decision? Since they would have informed me first if they have overturned it? Or that depends on the Embassy?
Has an Embassy ever informed the appeals tribunal first before the appellant, if the decision has been overturned?

Is an ECM allowed to disclose whether they have upheld it and the reasons, on the phone? Or I have to wait for the tribunal to inform me in writing?

Also, how long does it take for the docs to reach the tribunal, from the BHC, please?

And then how long does it take the tribunal to generate an letter confirming the reasons and hearing date, please?

Is the ECM allowed to bring up reasons other than the ones stated on the refusal notice, e.g. a previous arrest, the interview etc even though they make no reference to the interview or the interview details in the refusal notice? And in fact, they say that it wasn't necessary to interview me, so for them to turn around and say that they did, would contradict the refusal notice, right?

I am really anxious, as they made a decision in less than 5 weeks and no one has sent me a letter, e-mail or phoned me from the BHC.

Finally, will the appeals tribunal issue a hearing date after the 19 weeks have expired? Even though they will receive the papers well before the end of the 19 weeks.

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your questions.

1. Yes in this case I would assume that the ECM has unheld the decision and they will be looking to take the case to the tribunal and get a Hearing date. At the moment this can be up to 6 months.

Had they not upheld their decision the ECM would have contacted you and asked for you to return your passport to be endorsed with the visa.

2. Unfortunately you would have to wait until you have received the decision in writing, you can try and get the ECM to discuss this on the phone but it is very unlikely that you will be able to speak directly with the decision maker at the BHC.

3. It takes anything from 5-10 days to be received by the tribunal, they then have to log this in their system and then send this to the relevant applicants. having said that due to the fact that Christmas holidays are upon us it can take longer as the tribunal will be closed during the holiday period.The whole process can take up to 1 month or longer due to the back log.

4. The ECM will only bring up resons for refusal that were sent to you in writing they cannot now add further reasons for refusal as this would not be accepted by the tribunal. Whatever reasons the home office have refused your visa for will be stated in their bundle.

5. You do not need to worry the BHC it seems want the case to proceed with the tribunal and the should be in touch with your legal representative via post.

6. The tribunal gives the BHC 19 weeks but if the papers are received before this then they can action the date sooner. It all depends on how quickly the papers are processed in the UK by the tribunal. The quicker they have a decision from the BHC the quicker they will log in into the system and generate an appeal date.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you so much for your reply.

So just to reiterate please, the ECM cannot invent or bring up reasons other than the only reason which was stated in the refusal notice? Which was only due to the fact that the paragraph 320 (7b) was still active?

I wasn't expecting that from the BHC. I thought the worst scenario would be that they wouldn't overturn it till the end of the 19 weeks.

Have you known of any cases where the BHC informs the tribunal first in writing that the decision has indeed been overturned, after which the tribunal sends out a letter in writing, confirming that the decision has been overturned?

Or is it mainly the other way round, please? Ie the applicant is informed before the tribunal, if the decision had been overturned?


Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes that is correct the ECM is not able to include further reason as mentioned on the initial refusal letter.

2. In my experience it is usually the ECM that writes to the applicant first and then thereafter to the Tribunal informing them that they have withdrawn and are overturning their decision. In any event the ECM's letter is received by the applicant first as it is usually in the same country and then it is received by the tribunal processed and then sent out to the legal rep. Usually the applicants call me from abroad stating that the BHC has written to them asking them to return their passports and then a few weeks after that I receive a letter from the tribunal confirming the same.

I hope clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs and quick response. Much appreciated.

Just to clarify in point 2, do you mean in cases where a decision is overturned, the ECM's letter would reach the applicant first? What about if the decision was upheld? Would the applicant receive a letter first, or the tribunal has to inform, once they've received the bundle from the ECM, please? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Its a pleasure.

Yes if the decision is overturned the letter would be received by the applicant first. If the decision is upheld then the letter would be sent to both you and the legal representative whom filled the form as they would have put their address down in the form. Because the letter in respect of the Hearing will be generated in the UK it would take longer to be received by the applicant if they are outside the UK.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Sorry, do you mean the ECM would send out a letter to me, if the decision was upheld or the tribunal would in case it was upheld, please? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

The ECM would send the decision to the tribunal and the tribunal will then send a letter to you and your legal representative from the UK to confirm this.

I hope this answers your question.

kind regards.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you.

Could you kindly provide the link(s) from the UKBA website where it states that Paragraph 320 (7b) doesn't apply to a fiance visa, please? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Please see following link:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/policyandlaw/guidance/ecg/rfl/rfl5/#header4

see point RFL 5.6

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Sorry, do you mean RFL5.4, instead? Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes I do apologise I meant 5.4

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to know what would happen if the Home Office decide to withdraw on the day of the hearing? Would that mean that we would essentially win the case?

Or does it mean that we would be left in limbo and at their mercy, not knowing whether I'd get issued a visa or not?

How often have the Home Office been known to do this? (i.e.Withdraw on the date of the hearing) Is it frequent?

And have applicants been issued with an entry clearance after the Home Office withdraw?
Or does the HO come up with new reasons to refuse the applicant once again?


Also, is it a good thing that the Embassy have already sent back the papers and not waited until the end of the 19 weeks, as that means that as soon as the tribunal receives the papers, they can list my case for a hearing and give me a hearing date?

Is it possible to get an earlier hearing date, if we inform the tribunal that we're not bothered about what tribunal location they appoint us, as long as it's an earlier hearing date?

Or can we state compassionate grounds, like the decision made was unlawful and that me and my partner have been separated for over a year now?

Finally, do ECMs usually stick by their original refusal reasons or generate new reasons, when the matter is upheld? My matter has been upheld, by the way. The BHC confirmed it to me on the phone today, but couldn't disclose the reasons.

Many thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. If the home office withdraws from the Hearing on the day your application would be successful and you would be issued with the visa.

2. It is very rare for the home office to withdraw applications on the day but if the home office case is weak then the judge would allow your appeal on the day.

3. Once the home office withdraws the case they issue the applicant with the visa they do not state further reasons for refusal.

4. Yes the earlier the home office receives a case the quicker it will be review and a date issued.

5. There is less chance of you getting a Hearing date earlier as the tribunal usually set the earliest date at the most convenient location. So asking for a different date will be difficult, but you can always try.

6. The home office usually do not amend their reasons for refusal.

7. You, may state in the letter regarding an earlier date regarding the fact that you have been separated for a long period of time, this may convince the tribunal to issue an earlier hearing date. All you can do is try.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for your inputs. Much appreciated.

Although I agree theoretically that if the HO do withdraw on the day of the hearing, or the day before the hearing, that automatically means that we have won the case, but I would like to know what happens next?

I mean, since the Judge would not have the chance to decide and no determination would be sent out, do I then start ringing up the Embassy and chasing the matter up with them?

Why does the HO withdraw, it seems really unfair on the appellant, who would have waited at least 4-6 months for a court hearing and would have invested in a lot of money so far. I think it's only fair for the appellant to gain closure.

Are the HO likely to withdraw with regards XXXXX XXXXX matter, as the ban would have been well done and dusted by the time it reaches a hearing, and since they've contested this reason since last Dec 2012? Although I don't know the reasons yet, my suspicion is the ban.

Finally, why do the HO only get the chance to view the bundle a day before the hearing? Is that to prevent them to come up with new reasons, which would delay the matter even further?

Thank you.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. If the home office withdraws the case they write to you as does the tribunal to confirm the withdrawal. The home office write to you and ask for you to send your passport to the embassy so they can endorse it with the required visa. You do not need to contact them, they contact you.

2. The home office has the chance to withdraw before the Hearing but this is very rare so I do not think that in your case they will withdraw.

3. The reason for refusal will be the same as that which was stated in the original refusal letter, it should not be an different.

4. The home office usually receive the bundle at least 5 days before the Hearing. The home office are not allowed to deviate from the original reason for refusal, in your case the home office will not change the reasons for refusal.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

After reading the article below, I am worried as to whether the Embassy would issue entry clearance or not, if they were to withdraw on the day of the hearing?

Does the BHC have a specific time frame in which to issue entry clearance, after the HO withdraws the case?

Have there been cases when they withdraw and NOT issue entry clearance and come up with other reasons?

http://www.freemovement.org.uk/2013/04/10/withdrawn-decisions/

Can you kindly have a look at the link and clarify what the issues are? As I am confused by all this.

Also, if the HO withdraw before the hearing or on the day, will the adjudicator and HO write to me stating that the matter has been withdrawn and that I won the case? Or will they only state that the matter has been withdrawn, please?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. What the article is relating to is what usually happens to appellants whom appeal from inside the uk. What happens is that appeals go back to the home office inside the uk and then take a very long time to resolve, but outside the UK this is very rare the bhc usually write to the applicant very quickly after a decision to withdraw has been made or an appeal has been successful.

2. I do not think that out of country appeal are withdrawn on the day, or the ECO was going to withdraw the decision they would have done so by now as they have not then I do not see this happening on the day. All the ECO would do is write to you asking for your passport to issue you with your visa.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

Thank you so much, for looking into the article and clarifying the issues raised in it. As it was misleading.

So just to clarify, please. If the HOPO decides to withdraw on the day of the hearing, will the BHC get notified and hence is entry clearance guaranteed? How long does that usually take?

Does it take longer for the BHC to contact the appellant if the decision was withdrawn? As oppose to an appeal that was won?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

As stated in my previous answer this is a very rare occurrence, but in the event that the home office does withdraw the case then one would assume that entry clearance will be granted.

The time is usually between 6 - 8 weeks, but this is on the basis that an appeal is allowed. If the home office reconsider their decision prior to the appeal it can be sooner.

If the BHC withdraw prior to the Hearing then this would mean that your visa should be granted a lot sooner than if you won the appeal as the tribunal would have to contact the BHC and then they would contact the appellant.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

Would the reason that the ban was still active at the time of application be a reason for the Home Office to withdraw before the hearing? As it would have been well expired by the time it reaches a hearing.

Also, why does the HO or ECO withdraw before a hearing? Due to the reasons being weak, for e.g.?

You said the ECO can withdraw prior to a hearing, can they still do that given the fact that the papers have been sent back to the tribunal?

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

If the home office feel that they have made a poor decision then they should have withdrew from the appeal. But for some reason they feel they have made the correct decision so i do not think they will now withdraw before the appeal.

The ECO may withdraw after looking further into the grounds for appeal or reasons connected to another review of the case and decide to not proceed with it.

The ECO can withdraw as can any party prior to the Hearing but as I mentioned I do not think that the home office will do so.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs. Much appreciated.

I have no idea what the reasons are this time, but my suspicions are, it's still to do with the ban.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you and its a pleasure as always.

Yes I believe that the reasons are due to the ban if this was why the application was originally refused.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
Satisfied Customers: 2104
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask with regards XXXXX XXXXX Tier 4 application, please?

1) What are the requirements?

2) Do I have to show the maintenance fees in my account or in my legal guardian's account? Since I don't work, would they question where I got the money from, if I was to print out bank statements from my account?

3)Do I need to provide a letter from my guardian, stating that they've provided the money to me and that they're responsible for my costs whilst I'm studying in the UK?

4)Does my last fiance visa refusal and last ban due to expire very shortly, have any affect on any future applications, such a Tier 4?

What I'm worried about is credibility, would they think that it's strange applying for a student visa, after I've been refused a fiance one?

5) When would I need to apply for a student visa, for a course starting next academic year, please? After I've received an offer etc.

6)Finally, do you recommend any barristers or solicitors with regards XXXXX XXXXX a Tier 4 application?

Am I correct in saying that barristers mainly shine in court, whilst solicitors are suffice for preparing entry clearance applications? Plus, solicitors can do a lot of work which barristers can't do, right? Such as following matters up etc

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. In respect of a tier 4 visa you would require a certificate of acceptance of studies (COS) which will be issued by the educational institution which you apply to study with.

You would also need to show anything between £8000 - £10000 pounds in your account for 30 days to confirm that you are able to maintain yourself for the duration of your course.

You would also need to pass an English language test if you are not from a majority English speaking country.

Please see the following link for more information:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/studying/adult-students/apply-outside-uk/

2. You need to show that you have monies in your account for the required period of time. If the monies have come from your parents then they need to draft an affidavit confirming that they have given you the money and that it has come from their account. This would be sufficient.

3. Yes there is nothing preventing you from providing a letter stating that they are happy for you to have access to monies in their account for the purpose of your education. They should then attach their bank statement confirming that there are funds for you to use.

4. No your previous refusal will not have any effect on your application for a tier 4 visa provided the ban has expired prior to the application date.

Yes this is a question that the home office may ask as to why you have suddenly wanted to apply for a tier 4 visa if you have applied for a fiancee visa and appealed the decision. You would need to state the reasons why you have decided to go down the tier 4 route.

5. You can apply for a visa between 2-3 months prior to the commencement of the course. The offer will have the start date of the course etc so make sure you apply a few months prior to the commencement of the course to ensure you do not miss the start date.

6. Unfortunately we are unable to recommend solicitors on this website, you are right is assuming that if you did obtain the services of a solicitor they will be able to prepare the application for you and follow up any issues with the home office.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK lawyer,

1)Would I need to pass an English language test, if I've already obtained a degree from the uk?

2)What changes has there been from the old style tier 4 (before 2011), compared to the new one, please?

3)I can appreciate that you cannot recommend any solicitors on the website, but what I meant is would you be able to provide a link to OISC accredited firms, please? Thanks

4)Finally, with regards XXXXX XXXXX home office questioning my motive, isn't each application judged on its own merits? I mean I am still awaiting the reasons put forward by the ECM, if the reasons are ambiguous, for e.g., can I say that I wish to pursue my studies, as I've managed to get an offer from a good uni etc?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. No provided it is at least a UK bachelors degree. You can use the following link to see if your degree is applicable:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/pointscalculator

2. There hasnt been much changes in respect of the old to new tier 4 visas, although they have taken off colleges and universities from their sponsorship list whom they believe do not meet the requirements to sponsor students.

3. I can provide you a link for solicitor firms , please see the following link:

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/find-a-solicitor/

4. Yes that is correct although they may question the reason for you wanting to study provided strictly speaking if you meet the requirements they should not be a problem, the home office do want to ensure that your intentions are only to study in the UK and not settle because you have a partner in the UK.

This is something that will be in the back of their mind when they decide you application.

I hope this answers your questions.

Kind regards



Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

1) What would constitute a valid reason to switch from a fiance visa appeal to a Tier 4? The lengthy process due to the backlogs perhaps?

2) I can appreciate that you don't know the ins and outs of my matter, but would you suggest that I continue with the appeal, if the reasons forwarded by the ECM are in my favour and I have a strong case? Or should I withdraw and apply for a Tier 4?

3) I was on a Tier 4 before, it expired over a year ago, would that count in my favour?

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes this could be a reason for you wanting to switch to a tier 4, the fact that you were previously on a tier 4 visa would also help.

2. Depending on when the appeal is , I would suggest you either re-apply for a fiancee visa or apply for a tier 4 visa. If the process is taking too long there is nothing preventing you from marrying in your home country with your partner and applying for an EEA family permit, which would be the best and easiest option in your case.

3. It would count in your favor but I would suggest that you marry your fiancee in your home country and then apply for an EEA family permit.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Marrying in my home country is not an option, due to statelessness; no human rights here whatsoever. I cannot work, study or get married. Plus, my fiance would have to be working in my home country for him to be able to get married to me. He cannot leave his job.

Moving to Europe isn't an option either. Again he has a good job with a good pay. Only option is the UK.

I have no idea when the hearing date is going to be. I'm guessing sometime in May or June, as it's taking 6 months to get a hearing date at the moment.

I'm not keen on re-applying for a fiance visa, due to the complexity of the application and the enormous fees involved. I'm more keen on applying a Tier 4 application. But my worry is that would they question my motive, especially as I would be living with my fiance?

Would breaking up constitute as a good reason for wanting to go for a Tier 4 application? As our relationship is struggling.

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

In respect of applying for a tier 4 visa i do think this would be an issue, as you have already undertaken studies in the UK and have returned to your country.

What you need to do is explain the reason you have applied for a tier 4 visa and also explain how your main objective in the UK will be to study, you should state that just because your fiancee is in the UK it should not prejudice your application.

Because you still have an appeal pending, if you feel you can wait until the Hearing date and obtain a decision first then I suggest you go through with the Hearing. If however you feel that you are unable to wait for a decision then you can reapply as a Tier 4 student.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Sorry with regards XXXXX XXXXX previous statement:

In respect of applying for a tier 4 visa i do think this would be an issue, as you have already undertaken studies in the UK and have returned to your country.

Do you mean, 'you do NOT think it would be an issue'?

Can I state that my relationship has broken down, hence it wouldn't be appropriate to pursue a fiance visa appeal? As mentioned, our relationship hasn't been great recently, ever since the appeal. It has been a challenge to say the least.

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

Yes that is what I meant I do apologise for the typo.

In respect of the reason to withdraw, yes this would again be sufficient reason, it would actually be appreciated by the home office that you have given a very plausible reason not to pursue with the appeal.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your quick response.

But can a solicitor help me prepare a tier 4 application, whilst I'm abroad?
Or does someone (e.g. a friend) have to be in the UK to assist me with it?

Also, with regards XXXXX XXXXX I will no longer be planning on living with my fiance, if we decide to go our separate ways. Do I have to secure an accommodation before applying for a Tier 4? It would be difficult to look for a flat, whilst I'm abroad.

Many thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes a solicitor can assist you with a tier 4 application from the UK but it may just take that bit longer as you would have to provide him with all the documents copies that you wish to send with the application, the solicitor would then need to fill in the from and return this to you etc the process can take longer than needed. But if this is what you wish to do then there is nothing preventing you from using this option.

2. You do not need accommodation, but you should inform the home office where you wish to be staying ie a flat or rented room etc. Because the money you need to show include maintenance there is no need for you to have actually accommodation before you apply.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to know that, can a future Tier 4 application be refused under 320(11) or general grounds of refusal, even though that the ban has expired now?

I've read cases, not on official sites, where another 1 year ban was enforced to an application, even after the previous 1 year ban has expired, is that possible?

Have you dealt with cases where the applicant was previously refused under 320(7b) for 12 months and was later granted leave to enter the uk?

I don't know whether to pursue the appeal or to apply for a Tier 4, I'm really worried, that if my Tier 4 application was refused under 320(11), then I'd be in a bad situation. Can you please advise, what would be the best course of action, please?

Thanks


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply, i apologise for the delay in reverting back to you.

1. In respect of section 320 (11) you application will be reviewed on the basis that a ban was given to you for a year, but as you have now served this it should not have a baring on any further applications as it was only for 1 year and you would have served the ban at the time of your application.

If bans have been implemented then you would need to read the reasons why this has been done, strictly speaking it should not be the case.

2. I have deal with cases where applicant was refused and banned and then was granted leave to enter the UK, i think it all depends on how an application is submitted and the covering letter explaining why any previous bans should not effect on the current application.

3. If your relationship with your spouse has broken down then I suggest you apply for a tier 4 visa , but if your relationship is still subsisting then let the appeal run its course and wait for the outcome.

I would also suggest that any further applications should be submitted via the aid of a solicitor.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Not a problem.

1) I'm just worried, that since in their eyes, I used deception in a previous entry clearance application, i.e. stating I would stay a month, but then stayed 4 months and not mentioning I had a partner in the UK, isn't it a serious offence? (deception in an application)

2) Unless I contest this ban in an appeal, providing that was the only reason as to why the ECM upheld the decision, that is, and if I then get the appeal approved by the judge, would the ban get 'erased' off my file? Or it stays on there regardless

3) I'm just worried that a previous deception in an application would haunt me forever, as long as I don't contest it. May I ask whether the cases you have dealt with involving a ban, were for one year? Refusal on entry?

4) I'm not sure about this person's situation, as I just read it on an immigration forum. I will quote what it says:

I did overstayed in the UK for more than 28 days and left the UK voluntarily, NOT at the expense of the Secretary of State, on 26/02/2011. More than 12 months had gone by before I submitted an application for entry clearance to the UK under Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) of the PBS on28/02/2012.

The ECO applied paragraph 320 (7B) of the Immigration Rules to refuse my application on 22/03/2012 and impose a further penalty on my visa application. The ECO noted me that any further applications will also be refused under paragraph 320 (7B) of the Immigration Rules until27/02/2013.

I then requested an Administrative Review on 30/03/2012. Unfortunately, the Admin Reviewer upheld the decision and made following comment.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
You have admitted to overstaying in the United Kingdom. You have based your Administrative Review on the fact that you overstayed more than one year ago and therefore you feel that paragraph 320 7(b) is no longer applicable. However you are incorrect. Your one year ban comes into force at the point that you are refused under 320 7(b) which on this occasion was the 22/03/2012. Your one year ban does not come into force the moment you leave the UK and therefore you are incorrect in assuming that your ban period passed one year after you left the UK.

I uphold the ECO decision to refuse your application under paragraph 320 7(b).
--------------------------------------------------------------
I believed that both the ECO and ECM misunderstood the meaning of 1 year ban.

Many thanks
Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes that would be something they would take into account but you have actually served your ban in respect of that and that is why it should not be an issue.

2. The ban i thing should be contested because it shows that you are adamant that an incorrect decision was made on your application. Although the ban may have been for the correct reason there is nothing preventing you argue why the ban was issue in the first place.

3. Yes the cases were for bans which were for 1 year and they were for entry to the UK.

4. In respect of the section you have stated above, the applicant's ban did not begin from the date they left the UK, but from the date the applicant was refused under sect 320 7 b . I am not sure this is actually correct because if an applicant leaves the UK and then does not submit an application for say 5 years , surely that could not mean that the years ban will not begin until the applicant is refused under their application which is 5 years after leaving the UK.

I am not sure this decision is correct and should be contested to determine the validity of the decision.

In any event your appeal is on the basis that the ban should not be enforce due to the category of visa you are applying for.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
UK_Lawyer, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Hope this finds you well.

Th reasons put forward by the ECM are mainly centered around the ban, as originally anticipated:


1) My latest application was a marriage visitor application (when in fact it was a fiance visa application) Hence the re-entry ban under paragraph 320(7b) still applies.

And they also mention previous visit visa refusals, which are irrelevant:

2) That I was refused visit entry clearance in Feb and withdrew from a visit application in Nov 2012, before being refused entry in Dec 2012, due to deception in a previous entry clearance application.

Hence the ECM upholds the refusal.

Obviously all the points made by the ECM are utter nonsense. My question is: based on the reasons put forward by the ECM, is the ECM able to appeal against the Judge's ruling, as and when the appeal is allowed?

As I am aware that the ECM has 5 days to appeal the decision, after the determination has been received, is that 5 days or 5 working days please?

Thanks.
Kind regards.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

I would like to wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Thanks for your help.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. The home office will be able to appeal then decision of the judge only if there is an error in law in the judges determination, if there is not then any application to appeal will be refused. In your case as the home office do seems to have mistaken your visa application for marriage visit visa I would suggest that if the judge makes a decision in your favour then the home office would not have any ground for appeal.

2. There are 5 business days for the home office to appeal the judge's decision.

Hope this answers your question. Thanks you very much for your message, hope you and your family a very merry Christmas.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for reply.

You're welcome re my last message.

Just to confirm please, when the judge proves that it was a fiance visa application in court, hence the ban doesn't apply etc, will the matter be out of the home office's hands and they have no choice but to accept it? Bearing in mind that the UKBA are completely at fault on point of law.

Are the mention of previous visit visa refusals relevant?

The ECM at the BHC has proven to be quite stubborn in character. I am just worried what they will do once they receive the determination that the appeal has been allowed? Will the matter no longer be in their hands?

Finally, how long does it take the BHC to issue entry clearance after the appeal has been allowed please?

Many thanks.
Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. If the judge allows the appeal then the only option for the home office would be to appeal the decision ad stated above. If the bans in respect of your previous visits are the only reason for refusal then they should not have applied due to the fact that you applied for a fiance visa.

2. If the judge allows the appeal then they can submit an application to appeal that decision, if there is not error in law then the original decision will stand , regardless of how stubborn the home office are.

3. Entry clearance could take between 4-6 week to be issued depending on how busy the high commission is.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs.

But given my case, where the ECO/ECM have deliberately treated my application as a marriage visitor one, in order to continue applying the ban, once the matter gets proven in court by a judge, that it is in fact a fiance application, do you see any grounds for the home office to appeal the judge's decision, please?

Are they allowed to bring up new reasons, other than what is mentioned on the refusal notice and the ECM review? They have mentioned everything there is to mention.

They did mention the previous deception when I was refused entry on arrival, hence they applied the 12 month ban, is that relevant? That was for a visit application though.

Thanks.
Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. Yes it does seem that the ecm has made a mistake with the decision and therefore it is unlikely that they will appeal the judge's decision if it's made in your favour.

2. They are not allowed to bring any further reasons for refusal than they have already.

3. The ban has now been served and in any event should not have been applied, therefore it is not relevant.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I apologise if I've already asked this before, but just to clarify. If and when the judge proves that it's a fiance visa at court, the home office cannot turn around and say that it's a marriage visit application, right?

Thanks.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

The home office have already stated that it is a marriage visa, therefore if the judge states that it is was a fiancé visa application and they should have treated it as such then I do not think that the home office can state anything different.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Based on the reasons put forward by the ECM, is the home office likely to proceed to a hearing or withdraw on the day of the hearing?

I am worried about the home office withdrawing on the day of the hearing, due to their weak defense, what happens if that was the case? Can the ECM still refuse entry clearance? Or does it mean that I won the appeal?

How often does the home office withdraw on the hearing day with out of country appeals, please?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. At this moment in time I would say that the home office is likely to proceed with the Hearing and letting the judge make the decision in respect of your application.

2. If they withdraw from the appeal then your visa will be issued, but because they have yet to withdraw I do not think that they will withdraw now.

3. It is very rare for the home office to withdraw from the appeal, therefore I do not think this will be the case. I would suggest that it will be the judge who will make a decision on your application at the Hearing.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

What I was referring to is when the HO presenting officer receives the appeal files, are they likely to withdraw on the day of the hearing? I'm certain that they won't withdraw before the hearing, but what I meant was, on the day of the hearing, please?

Have you ever witnessed such an occurrence with out of country appeals, please? Or is it more common with in country appeals in the UK?

Thanks

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The home office do not withdraw on the day of the Hearing, if there is a Hearing day then the home office officer is likely to fight the case no matter how bad the argument maybe.

2. Withdrawal would be more common for in country appeals rather than appeals from outside the uk. However, it is also very rare for any kind of appeal in or out of country for the home office to withdraw on the day.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Thank you so much for your inputs. Hope you have a good break.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 8 months ago.
It's a pleasure.

Enjoy the holidays.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to know when does the HO representative receive the appeal bundle which the ECM has sent? A day before the hearing?

And is the Tribunal responsible for handing over the appeal bundle to the HO representative?

Finally, when does the immigration judge have a chance to look at my case, a day before the hearing as well?

Thanks

Kind regards


 

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. The bundle is received by the HO at least a month or so before the Hearing date, this is because the HO then needs to send a copy of the bundle to you, and the Tribunal. They most definitely do not receive it one day before the Hearing.

2. The bundle from the ECM will be sent to the HO who will then forward this to the Tribunal, the tribunal does not send any bundles to any party.

3. The immigration judge usually reviews his/her cases a few days or depending on how busy they are a day prior to the Hearing. You can rest assure that at the Hearing they will be fully aware of the content of your bundle and also the bundle from the HO.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Thank you for reply.

I am slightly confused as to how my legal representative has received the respondent's bundle. Has the ECM sent them directly to my representative's office? Or has tribunal done so? Thanks

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your reply,

The HO should send the bundle to your legal representative after receiving it from the ECM. It all depends on how efficient the HO is but as stated above it is usually a month prior to the Hearing that the HO receives the bundle from the ECM and sends the bundle to your legal representative.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Hope this finds you well.

I would like to ask generally speaking, do appeals mostly get overturned at a hearing, if they have been upheld at the ECM review stage?

Is it worth sending the ECM a letter from my lawyer, after they've failed to acknowledge what type of visa I've applied for, twice now? (i.e. they treated my application as a marriage visitor/family visitor application rather than a settlement one, I've never applied for either of those two)
Or is it best to simply wait for the hearing?


 


Finally, does the judge ever reveal the outcome at the end of the hearing, if not how long does it take to receive a written determination?

Thanks.

Kind regards.


Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. Yes this is what happens at 90 percent of appeals. The reason they go to the tribunal is because the ecm has upheld their decision, just because they have upheld their decision doesn't mean it's necessarily correct.

2. It is better to do wait for the Hearing and let the judge make a decision, if the ecm has failed to acknowledged the type of visa you applied for twice already I do not think they will change their mind on this occasion.

3. Around 20 percent of hearings are usually decided on the spot, however it is much more common that the judge will inform you of their decision in writing, the decision usual takes between 3-4 weeks to get received by you or your legal representative.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Is the percentage of overturned UK settlement appeals 90% as well, please? Yes, of course, the ECM's decision is flawed.

What is likely to be the Home Office presenting unit's defense? If they're adamant that I applied for a family visitor and a marriage visitor visa, but there's no evidence to suggest that at all? Plus, they mention a previous visitor refusal and withdrawal, which bear no relevance. As well as the previous 12 months ban, which is well expired now.

Finally, after an appeal has been allowed, how long does the determination take to reach the BHC over here? Should I contact the Home Office presenting unit, about whether or not they have sent the determination to the BHC?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. In respect of the decisions being overturned this answers was between 70-80%.

2. Yes, I believe that they will argue the same arguments stated in their original decision regardless of how irrelevant it maybe, I think you can see from the way they have been since the refusal that the home office will fight their corner regardless of the effects their wrongful decision may have on an individual's life. I would suggest that the judge will be the one to make a sensible and correct decision at the time of the Hearing and this will be your legal representatives chance to forward your case and your part of the argument.

3. Again the length of time depends on how quickly the tribunal works but it shouldn't be more than 3-6 weeks at most.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Thank you for your inputs much appreciated.

I would just like to clarify with regards XXXXX XXXXX 3 of your last reply, is that the approximate time it takes for the determination to reach the Embassy over here? Or is that approximate time it takes the tribunal to generate the determination letter, please?

Also, once my legal representative receives the determination, who should we call to find out whether or not the Embassy over here have been notified, please? Is it the Home Office presenting Unit?

Thanks.

Kind regads.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

1. The time stated is the amount of time it takes the tribunal to contact the embassy in your home country to inform them that your appeal has been allowed and a visa needs to be issued to you in your name.

2. In respect of what you do after you have received the determination, unfortunately there is not much you can do, the fact is that it is the tribunal that must communicate their decision to the embassy internally and inform them of their decision.

Therefore even if you have received a decision in your favor and wish to enclose this to the embassy in your country yourself, the embassy will not accept this as they will say that they will only accept the decision once the tribunal themselves send them the decision, so in your case you would need to wait for the tribunal to communicate the decision to the embassy as you cant do it yourself to expedite the matter.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Thank you so much for your inputs. Much appreciated.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you , its a pleasure.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Do you see a reason as to why the ECM/ECO have acted this way, by dragging a matter, in which they applied the wrong law, to court?

Is it normal for the home office to act this way? When they were completely at fault.

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your question, I apologise for the delay in reverting back to you.

The home office do like to take matters to the court regardless of the fact that a reason might be not necessarily correct or it might just be the fact that they have decided to ignore the reasons you have given them.

Usually in these types of cases the home office does get a telling off by the court and they are usually decided by the court very quickly. So in your case I would suggest that as the matter will be going to court anyway you should just let the judge make the decision and no worry to much about the actions of the home office.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards
Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

Not a problem.

Thank you so much for your reply.

I appreciate and agree with what you've mention above. My only concern remains, is there a more sinister reason why they've done this to me, which they chose to hide away from me and my legal representative?

Or they can't come up with anything else, other than what's already mentioned in the ECM bundle/ review?

Unless if there's been an error of law, is that correct?

But since the were the ones whom applied the wrong law and ignored everything, I doubt that they can appeal the judge's ruling. Do you agree?
i.e. as and when the judge rules that it was a settlement visa and hence the ban doesn't apply to that, the home office can't turn around and say, but it was a visitor type visa, is that correct?

Thank you for your time and efforts.
Much appreciated.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

In respect of more sinister reasons why the home office has done what you have stated, then IF this is the case then these will all come out during the Hearing. The home office will need to state the reasons for refusal and give the reasons why they have made the decision to uphold their decision.

The home office cannot add additional reasons for refusal, they would need to limit what they say to the reason mentioned in the refusal bundle.

I agree with you in respect of the fact that if the appeal is allowed they will not be able to appeal the decision unless there has been an error in law and the judge has failed to consider vital evidence when making his decision. If the judge rules that it was a settlement visa, then yes the home office cannot state that it was a visitor visa application as the facts will be in front of the the judge to see.

The home office need to stick to the reasons of refusal and cannot deviate from the refusal or add further reasons. If the judge rules in your favor I do not see the home office having a chance to challenge the decision.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards

Customer: replied 7 months ago.

Thank you for your reply.

Just to clarify please. The home office cannot state that it's due to stateless status, they have acted this way, for example? As that constitutes racism. Or that they didn't know what type of application it was, when all the evidence was clearly outlined? Or about a previous arrest but no conviction, as they haven't mentioned that in the ECM review at all. Do you agree?

Many thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 7 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

If your previous visas were granted on the basis of you being stateless then this visa should be no different and therefore any issues of statelessness are flawed.

In respect of the other issued mentioned, if the ECM has not mentioned them as part of the refusal or as part of their bundle, they should not mention this in court.

I hope this answers your question,

Kind regards
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Customer: replied 6 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I would like to ask, is it possible for a victim of domestic violence to apply for permanent settlement in the UK if they marry on a fiance visa?

If so, how straight forward is the process for applying for settlement as a victim of domestic violence?

What type of visa does a person get after getting married on a fiance visa? Is it FLR(M)?

How about if the spouse is an EU citizen?
Does the non EU partner acquire full rights immediately after marriage?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 6 months ago.
Thank you for your question.

1. Unfortunately, they are unable to switch from a fiancee visa, the applicant must have been in the UK on a spouse visa, the home office state the following:

You can apply to settle in the UK if:

• you currently have temporary permission to stay as the husband, wife or civil partner of a person present and settled here who has died; or
• you currently have temporary permission to stay as the unmarried or same-sex partner of a person present and settled here who has died, and you and your partner were still living together and intending to live permanently together at the time of their death.

2. The process is not too difficult but as mentioned above they would have needed to be in the UK on a spouse visa to apply for permanent settlement.

3. Yes after marrying the UK sponsor the application was need to switch from a fiancee visa ( which is valid for 6 months) to a spouse visa using from FLR M which will be valid for 2.5 years.

4. In respect of NON EEA spouse it is similar , but the non eea spouse does not get full rights after marriage the non EEA spouse must have been in the UK on a eea residence permit for the home office to consider granting the bereaving spouse permanent residency.

I hope this answers your question.

Kind regards
Customer: replied 6 months ago.

Dear UK Lawyer,

I'm slightly confused by your last response. Let clarify, please.

For e.g. if I was getting married to my settled spouse in the UK on a fiance visa, but happen to experience abuse from my spouse after marriage, is there any way of applying for definite leave, due to abuse from domestic violence? For e.g.?

Thanks.

Kind regards.

Expert:  UK_Lawyer replied 6 months ago.
Thank you for your reply.

I apologise if my previous reply was not very clear.

If the applicant came to the UK on a fiancee visa married AND then subsequently switched to a spouse visa AND then was a victim of domestic violence, then yes you would be able to apply for indefinite leave to remain

If however the applicant came to the UK on a fiancee visa and married BUT before switching to a spouse visa was abused physically then the applicant would NOT be able to apply for indefinite leave to remain.

The applicant must be on a Spouse visa to obtain indefinite leave to remain NOT a fiancee visa.

I hope this clarifies my previous answer, if not please do not hesitate to ask for further clarification.

Kind regards
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