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Thomas
Thomas, Solicitor
Category: UK Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 6513
Experience:  BA (Hons), PgDip, Practising Solicitor
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Hi, I have a right to appeal on Article 8 Discretionay application.

Customer Question

Hi,

I have a right to appeal on Article 8 Discretionay application. I was on a legal aid and my solicitor refuse or withdraw with apppeal cw4 form which is already send to the public service commission. I cant wait to the legal aid to be started as my appeal deadline is very soon. I have Soken to a law centre but the immigration advisor was not good and he didnt advise properly.
Actually, I came to UK in jan 2004 on a student visa and my husband was my dependant, we have three girls born here in UK in July 2006, July 2008 and Oct 2009. my student visa expired on 30 june 2010. my children were under care order of local authority from Jan 2010 till march 2012 and now they returned in our care with no court order. due to the stress of family proceeding I wasa unable to extend my stay in time and made an application on Article 8 discretionary basis in Jan 2011 which is refused now with a right of appeal. But my family solicitors wrote to UK border agency before my visa expired in June 2010 to get an advise and inform them of the family processdings and the home office only replied back in Oct 2010 to my family solicitor letter.
Now what will be my arguments grounds in my appeal as non of are british national, i didnt complete my studies due to family proceedings, all the childrern are born here in UK and are in Year 1, nursury and play group. as the childrencant adjust to the life in pakistan due to lived in 2 years legal fostering but in the refusal it says that they are intending to remove as a family unit but there is a difference in life style and education sys in pakistan and UK and the children are well setteled emotionaly and academecally in UK.
Please advise and let me know whether I can win on disproportunate basis of law or what else I should argue on. my 2 year daughter is asthma patient but i am also unaware of asthma environment and treatment in pakistan?
what are my case winning chances
thankyou
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: UK Immigration Law
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

Do you still have an immigration solicitor?

What have they said about your appeal?

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

currently not but the old solicitor send the appeal fomr may be called CW4 to the legal aid department to consider and he said if the legal aid accepted he will continue representing me with our case.

 

and the private firm charges a lot and then you dont know about the winng of your case, sencondly we have currently no right to work

 

please kindly advise in detail and honestly

and what other options we have to legalise our stay if you think in the above appeal is no chances

 

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

I will answer in a moment, may I ask why you have not accepted any of my colleagues answers first?

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

yes because in the reasons of refusals from home office it says section 55 (children welfare) cannot be breach. they said children can continue their education in pakistan and a totalling of 8 years is nothing to satisfy for article 8

 

but your collegues advise to claim on children education. i understan we need to show the difficulties in the life styles and education system in both countries but the home office looking to our kids ages which home office says can be easily adjust with the help of adult and parental support as they intend to remove us as a unit and your colleque hasnt satisfies me on this.

 

please advise thankyou

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.

Hi

Thanks for your reply.

The Article 8 argument made to assert a child’s right to remain in the UK where they and their parents do not have leave to remain is based upon their development, education and any risks they might suffer if returned to their home country.

This argument is more persuasive the old a child gets because they will have adjusted more to the UK. When children are young they are regarded for these purposes as more easy to adjust. Once a child gets to around 8/9/10 and above then the argument is at its strongest because their development and social/educational ties to the UK are sufficiently strong that to require them to re-adjust to a completely different society and potentially prejudice their development.

I have to say that I am not too surprised that you have not been successful so far because the child are not yet of that age and the reality is that Pakistan, though different to the UK, is not a third world country. It has an education system which is functional, albeit different to the UK and it is not regarded as a place which is dangerous to children’s development.

Because you case is far from certain you need to instruct a solicitor. If you cannot wait until you hear about legal aid then you should attempt to instruct a solicitor now. Your argument must be made by a solicitor because it’s not straightforward due to their age.

Your argument should focus on two fronts:-
1. Education – you need to focus on demonstrating that the standard of eduction that they will receive is so far below where your eldest child is that were she required to insert herself in to her age group then her education would be impaired to the extent that it would stagnate
2. Emotional Development – if the eldest child is very well developed for her age then you have to show that she is attached to the UK much more than normal children of her age and should be regarded as more emotionally developed that other children of her age. Her attachment to the UK in an emotional sense must be demonstrated
3. Social ties – If your eldest child speaks good English but does not speak urdu to an acceptable standard for her age then you need to make this point forcefully, particularly that this has increased her bond with the other child in UK society and UK society generally.

This needs to be evidenced by documents which confirm the statements that you make in respect of the above three points, so things like reports from the eldest school, reports from social worker, your friends/family that know of the their development.
It’s going to be extremely difficult though and you need a solicitor to act for you.
If this has been useful please kindly click accept so that I may be rewarded for my time. If you do not click accept your money stays with the site and I do not receive any credit for the time I have taken to answer your question. You will not be charged any further money for clicking accept.

If you wish for me to provide you with further guidance on any question you may have in the future then please submit a further question to the board requesting me either by my profile or by marking your question. “FAO Tom”.

Kind regards,


Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Tom,

thank you for your expert reply.

 

I need a bit clarification.

 

when we are arguing on the standard of education how it should be shown as an evidence, like you said there is functional educational in Pakistan. Do I need to show any evidence from Pakistan to prove this if yes then for example what document? please note I belon to swat valley in Pakistan and the future prospects for women there is less, even in 2009 in talibaan attack 401 schools were damaged and most were girls schools and people were forced not to send there girls to school, now recently in the past months life comes to routine there after successful milatery operation girls are alowed again and work started on the rebuilding of schools so it worthy to show anything on this side?

secondly the school teachers asked me to tell her points t that she needs to write in the letter, please a bit advise on this. she generally explains that the letter will include that ''the child is polite and has stable friends group, enthusiastic and interest in all subject and academically on tract and achieve her target, good attendance and well balance member of her class year 1'' so is this enough or that general. if we need further something from school please advise what it should be so that I can request her. you talk about reports from school. is this end of year/term report. what if they are Grade'B', if the child is not outstanding.

 

as far as language is concerned, my three children only speaks english due to spending 2 years in legal fostering, how should I prove this?

 

please advise a bit more on my case as I am trying to look for a private solicitor if the legal aid takes time.

please also advise being in fostering make any positive point to my case

and wether my husband need to show any of his tax or work details that he previosly did

 

I will definetly accept your answer as I respect your expertise. I use this service before in my family proceedings and I was benefited from it.

 

thank you very much

 

 

 

 

 

Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

The types of documents you would need to demonstrate the lack of education in Pakistan are reports by government, reports by newspapers, statements from people who have experienced the education system (students, teachers etc).

If there are UN reports or charity reports on the recent plight of women in the education system then you need these as well.

You woudl have to submit your own detailed statement referring to all the documentary evidence that you have collated so that it can all be considered.

If the foster parents can confirm that the children do not speak any other language then should get statemnets from them, as well as the eldest teacher at school

Trust this clarifies, please click accept.

Kind regards,

Tom
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.

I note you have not clicked accept to my answer. Is there any further information you require?
If you do not click accept then your deposit simply stays with the website and I receive absolutely no credit for the time I have taken to answer your question. Only when you click accept does a portion of your deposit actually transfer to me and you will not be charged any further money simply by clicking accept.
Please click accept. I cannot work for free.
Tom
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
I note you have not clicked accept to my answer. Is there any further information you require?
If you do not click accept then your deposit simply stays with the website and I receive absolutely no credit for the time I have taken to answer your question. Only when you click accept does a portion of your deposit actually transfer to me and you will not be charged any further money simply by clicking accept.
Please click accept. I cannot work for free.
Tom
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
I note you have not clicked accept to my answer. Is there any further information you require?
If you do not click accept then your deposit simply stays with the website and I receive absolutely no credit for the time I have taken to answer your question. Only when you click accept does a portion of your deposit actually transfer to me and you will not be charged any further money simply by clicking accept.
Please click accept. I cannot work for free.
Tom
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.

I note you have not clicked accept to my answer. Is there any further information you require?
If you do not click accept then your deposit simply stays with the website and I receive absolutely no credit for the time I have taken to answer your question. Only when you click accept does a portion of your deposit actually transfer to me and you will not be charged any further money simply by clicking accept.
Please click accept. I cannot work for free.
Tom

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