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INC
INC, Solicitor-Advocate
Category: UK Immigration Law
Satisfied Customers: 11509
Experience:  LL.B, Pg.Dip, LL.M, M.B.A (Pending), Solicitor-Advocate. UK Practising Certificate issued by SRA., DIFC Courts Registered (Dubai)
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How to claim british nationality otherwise than by descent

Resolved Question:

How to claim british nationality otherwise than by descent for my daughter born in Paris Sept 2000:

Family situation:
mother born Sept 1962 in Southern Rhodesia; british passport holder
married French national 1990; resident in France 1990-1993
first child born in Paris 1992; registered as a British national otherwise than by descent in 1992
second child born 1994 in USA while husband seconded to the French Embassy; registered as a British national otherwise than by descent 1994
third child born Sept 2000 in Paris; no application made in the first year because about to move back to UK
fully resident in UK from Aug 2002-Aug 2007
while in the UK advised to wait 4-5 years before applying
moved to Houston, US for husband's job
applied from US to register daughter as british national otherwise than by descent in Dec 2007
request turned down
since Sept 2011 fully resident in Lille but employed in London, by the Courtauld Institute of Art since 2010
How, in these circumstances, do I register by daughter for British nationality otherwise than by descent? I believe she is strongly entitled to the same national status as her brothers

Final point: after registering my first 2 children as British citizens otherwise than by descent I became aware of a misunderstanding that would have had a direct bearing on this process: that I had been born outside the UK because military service still applied to medical students who had started their training in 1948. My father qualified as a doctor in 1958 from Guy's Hospital and was obliged to work 2 years for the army in Germany or 2 years in a hospital in Southern Rhodesia. He worked in Lusaka, SOuthern Rhodesia from May 1960 to November 1962. Knowledge of this would have changed the nationality category within which my first two children were registered. He died in March 2000.
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: UK Immigration Law
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi
Thanks for your question and detail you have provided.

For clarity and the avoidance of doubt, could you please respond to the following:-
1. Is the child you are asking about the “..third child..”?
2. Please confirm how the first two children qualified for citizenship otherwise by descent (I note themselves were born outside the UK
Kind regards.

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Please confirm that you have received my reply to your question - because I am still being asked to respond to it
Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 2 years ago.
Hello,

I am happy to deal with your UK immigration law issues. My colleague is offline, do you want me to assist you?

Thank you
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

I'm back online how.

I have not received your reply. For some reason the question was re-categorised in to US immigration law and it had to be switched back.

I have not received your reply. The questions I need a reply to are as follows:-
1. Is the child you are asking about the “..third child..”?
2. Please confirm how the first two children qualified for citizenship otherwise by descent (I note themselves were born outside the UK

Kind regards,


Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
In answer to your question:

1. the third child is the subject here: born Paris 26 Sept 2000 and now 11 years old

2. Qualification came via my father's british citizenship: I was asked to supply his birth certificate and my parents marriage certificate when applying for my sons

3. The request for my daughter was turned down because I was no longer resident in the UK.
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

Thanks.

Is the father of the children British by birth? I note you say that you married a French national, I took this to mean the father of all three chlidren was French...

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The father of all three children is the same and not a british national
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Sorry, I've just re-checked your post.

I'm just struggling a little to see how child 1 & 2 were able to claim citizenship otherwise than by descent because you (their mother) were born outside the UK and therefore have citizenship by descent.

Was it claimed that when you were born in Rhodesia that your father was still working for the Army when you were born?

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
No the claim was straightforward: I registered the first two within the first year of birth as a british national (which was the rule) and was advised that I could pass my nationality to my child but that they could not pass it on automatically themselves. WIth the third child I did not register within the first year because we were about to move to the UK and registering her in the UK would mean that her british nationality could be passed down. I made this decision because by this time I had realised that they were wrong to have put me in this category from the beginning. I now understood why my father had worked in Rhodesia. Consequently the nationality issue for my first two children should have been automatic, and not by descent.
The problem was that in the UK I was given to understand that I could not apply immediately. Only after 4 years of residence. However,we moved to the US before I was able to apply. All I want to do now is regularise this: I don't care what category it is. I feel they should recognise that her claim to British nationality is identical to her brothers and that it was unreasonable to turn this down.

When they turned it down they said I had to return to the UK to apply. I have returned to Europe but not to the UK because of my husband's job. However, I work in the UK. Does being in Europe or working in the UK help? I think it should
Expert:  Thomas replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

Sorry I've got to pop out unexpectadly.

Another expert will assist.

Tom
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Well yes but How long is this going to take
Expert:  INC replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

Thanks for your question.

If I have provided you with an answer, kindly click ACCEPT.

Hi, I may be able to assist with this. Do you still require an answer?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Yes I do - I'm not getting very far
Expert:  INC replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

Sorry for this. British nationality law is very complex hence why the previous experts have been unable to provide a response immediately.

I am currently checking the rules for you and will be able to let you have a response in a couple of hours. I hope this is okay.

Kind regards
Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 2 years ago.
Hello,

Could you clarify under what section of the British Nationality Act were your first two children registered as British?

What is your daughter's current nationality and is she in the UK and if so, how long has she been in the UK since?
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
My daughter is 11 years old; she is resident with us in France; she is a French national; as stated in the initial message my first two children were registered as british nationals otherwise than by descent
Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 2 years ago.
Thank you.

Were the registration applications for the first two children made from within the UK? If you have their registration certificates, please advise me what section of the British Nationality Act 1981 is quoted for each of them.
Expert:  INC replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

I have had a chance to have a brief look into this but your situation is far from straight-forward, especially when considering that your father would have deemed to be in 'Crown Service' at the time of your birth, if my understanding is correct.

If this is the case, then you would be deemed to be a UK Citizen otherwise than by descent. You would then be able to pass on the UK Citizenship to your children, who would become UK CItizens by descent as they were born to at least one UK Parent abroad whom was a UK Citizen, other than by descent.

Unless you were in 'crown service', which would mean that your children would become UK Citizens other than by descent, your children would need to be registered as UK Citizens, which it appears they have been, as you have stated that they have a Certificate of Registration as opposed to a Certificate of Naturalisation.

This also means that your 3rd child would be able to apply if they are still under 18. The rules refer to 'Child' and any person over the age if 18 is no longer deemed to be a child. As your 3rd Child is 11 years old, they would be eligible to apply to be registered as a UK Citizen. The Citizenship is not automatic.

I hope this answers your question. If so, kindly click ACCEPT.

If you wish to discuss, please feel free to ask further questions.

Kind regards,
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Thank you very much: however this does not completely answer my question:
I have already tried to register this child and failed because I was not living in the UK at the time. I have returned to live in the EU: does this make a difference to the application? I work in London - and have done for several years but I am not resident in the UK; does working in the UK make a difference? I am not in crown service and my first two children were registered within the first year of their birth, which apparently is one of the rules. The fact that my father was in crown service was unknown to me at the time I was making their application - which is why they were registered as otherwise than by descent
Expert:  INC replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

I am of the opinion that it should not make a difference if you are resident in the EU.

If you have returned to live in the UK, then that should also not make a difference as you are a UK Citizen other than by descent, however, your children are all UK Citizens by descent and therefore all have to be registered.

I think the UKBA may have made a mistake. If you are in the UK, the Child will need to make an application to the UKBA using form MN1 along with the appropriate fee.

As your case is not straight forward, I would suggest that you enclose all copies of Certificates of Registration, including the elder two as well as your Certificate of Naturalisation.

If you wish to discuss, please feel free to ask further questions.

Kind regards,
INC, Solicitor-Advocate
Satisfied Customers: 11509
Experience: LL.B, Pg.Dip, LL.M, M.B.A (Pending), Solicitor-Advocate. UK Practising Certificate issued by SRA., DIFC Courts Registered (Dubai)
INC and other UK Immigration Law Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry: yes I do because the process is very expensive and I was shocked that the application was turned down in December 2007 when I applied from the US having just left the UK where we had been living for 5 years. I made all the details very clear in that application and I agree they probably made a mistake. I want the next application to succeed which is why I am trying to gather accuracy and precision. Apologies therefore, but while we are communicating can you clarify so that we can conclude:
To reiterate I live in France now but not in the UK.

I am a British citizen by descent; born abroad and through my father's british nationality

My first two children are registered as British citizens even though they were born abroad like me. This was done in the first year of life

My third child has currently been denied the same category of citizenship because I applied to register her when I was living in the US; because she was 7 years old.. because.... I don't know why

Do you have an address for further more specialized advice for proceeding? Do you think, judged on your appraisal, that i will be able to secure this for my child now that I am back in the EU

With many thanks
,,Thank you very much: however this does not completely answer my question:
I have already tried to register this child and failed because I was not living in the UK at the time. I have returned to live in the EU: does this make a difference to the application? I work in London - and have done for several years but I am not resident in the UK; does working in the UK make a difference? I am not in crown service and my first two children were registered within the first year of their birth, which apparently is one of the rules. The fact that my father was in crown service was unknown to me at the time I was making their application - which is why they were registered as otherwise than by descent 
Expert:  INC replied 2 years ago.
Hi,

The fact you are living in France does not make a difference to the entitlement to Register a child as a UK citizen.

Unfortunately, experts are not permitted to act for customers outside of the site. If you wish to instruct a lawyer to make the application for you, you will be able to find further details on the law society website.

I hope this answers your question. If so, kindly click ACCEPT.

If you wish to discuss, please feel free to ask further questions.

Kind regards,
Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 2 years ago.
Hello,

I think I understand your case and why your two children were registered as British Citizens and your third child was refused.

The law previously required that you had to apply for registration of minors within 12 months of their birth in order for them to be registered as British Citizens under S. 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981.

since you applied in 2007, the application was refused as it was not within 12 months of the child's birth.

The law changed in 2010 and the 12 month period was extended to 6 year's of the birth of the child which meant that applications made after 13 January 2010 require that the application has to be made within 6 years of the minor's birth.

You may still go ahead and apply for registration again and see if the Home Office is willing to exercise discretion seeing that in 2007, your child was still 5 years old and within the 6 year period. Use MN1 form if you decide to go ahead and apply. You may show that your other children and yourself are all British and it would be in the child's best interests to be registered British.

See here for further information: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/nationalityinstructions/nichapter10/chapter10?view=Binary

Please click Accept if the above is helpful.

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