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Gallagher99
Gallagher99, FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Category: UK Ford
Satisfied Customers: 2105
Experience:  SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE
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Ford Mondeo: Ford Mondeo: I have a warning sign Engine Malfunction

Customer Question

Ford Mondeo: I have a warning sign Engine Malfunction then I have a warning sign Engine Malfunction then all the pre-ignition signs light up and stay a light. but the car carries on working fine until i turn off the engine and then when i restart i have no lights on the dash, none of the gauges work, nor the heater/climate control system, An auto electrician has spent Two days checking all the electrical components and pinnig part of the wireing loom and so far without sucess he needs another day but still is sure if he will find the answear.....do you have any suggestions or any knowledge of a similar problem


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Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: UK Ford
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there , good Morning to you

Ok is this a hard fault ( on the vehicle just now )
Is there any life/lights in the cluster
Is there any life/lights on the EATC panel

Is this the only things that are not working
Did you notice if the red LED IMMOBILISOR light fkashed rapidly when the dash lit up

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
The fault is hard fault there are no lights on the cluster at all. When the dash last lit up severall warning lights came on and then it all goes out
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there ,thanks for replying

On I need you to carry out a few measurements using a volt meter

Ok at the DLC (diagnostic plug )

Measure the voltage at pins 3 , 11 , 6 and 14 with the ignition on
And let me know what readings you find then we can continue
Pin 16 is a constant 12 volt feed at the top corner
Pins 3 is directly below pin 11
Pin 6 is directly below pin 14

Regards XXXXX XXXXX
Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Sorry Brian but my car is round at the garage and i cant get access until tomorrow can i contact you then ?
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Yes no problem
Just and down the 4 separate voltage readings for pins 3,11,6 and 14

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
I am in the process of trying to contact the auto electrician to see if he has already done this
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
No worries
Just post back here the readings

Regards brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there. Do you still need help with this issue

Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.
Hi Brian sorry about the delay had a major family crisis, Anyway the readings are as follows :- pin3 --2.5v pin 11---2.25v pin6---2.7v and pin 14---2.2v
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there , thanks for replyingOn I suspect you have a CAN bus wiring issue Ok I have came across this issue twice in the last few years both times the fault has lay with a corroded CAN bus wire Ok the next step us to remove the drivers footwell kick trim and also the sill trim Remove ALL the insulation/ tape and inspect the wiring from the top of the kick trim all the way along the sill area Inspect the wiring for any Blue /green corrosion Pull and tug on the wiring ( it will usually break easy ) Pay close attention to the CAN bus wires ( these are 2wires twisted together ) If you need anymore help or advice on this issue please key me know If you are completley satisfied with my Answer Advice PLEASE CLICK ACCEPT Kind regards XXXXX XXXXX and have a nice day Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian thanks for the info i will get onto that project on Monday and let you know the outcome .

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
No worries chris


Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Morning Brian,

 

before i start this little pet project was there anything from the DLC pin readings that made you come to this conclusion and if it is connected to that which pin and wire colour was it ? Also is this a problem that could occur again somewhere else on the car and if so should i think about replaceing the car

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

Ok pin 6 has a slightly higher voltage than I was expecting

Iam going from my experience on this issue it took me a5 hours to find this fault do this is we're I go first from now on


Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

ok done that but havent found any signs of breakage or corrosion. I have also checked the ABS sensors (4)

 

Regards Chris

 

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

Ok with the ignition off for a few minutes can you carry out a resistance check across pins 6 and 14 at the dlc plug
You should get approx 60 ohms
Do this across 3 and 11 as well
Ensure the ignition is left off for a few minutes first

Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

the reading across pins 6 to 14 is 70 ohms and across 3 to 11 is 26 ohms

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris
Ok the readings should be 60 ohms approx as there is two 120 ohm resistors in the cluster And PCM these are connected in series

If the readings are out you have a can bus wiring issue
An you double check these readings as they are important

Make sure the ignition is off for a few minutes and the battery is fully charged before checking these readings

Do you have the registration number so I can look at the diagrams

Regards XXXXX XXXXX Brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there I have the diagrams for the can bus system here and have a few tests to try


If you could clarify exactly what pins 3 and 11 read as I suspect the Medium speed can bus us the fault


Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian the reg is YB08 OMX and the readings are 26 ohms for pin 3 to 11

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Chris

 

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

I will be online for the next 45 minutes

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Ok I will post back in 10 minutes

Regards Brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
No there Chris
Ok from the readings you have gave. The fault lies with the medium speed can bus lines

Ok the next thing to do us to run 2 slave wires to join the cluster and climate control assembly together

Ok nick into the wires at the cluster multiplug and the climate control assembly

The pin numbers are

Climate control assembly. - PIN 18 (grey /orange wire). To. Cluster wire PIN 23 (grey /orange wire )

Climate control assembly. - PIN 19 ( ( violet /orange wire) to cluster wire PIN 22 ( violet /orange wire )
By joining these wires the system should be operational )

Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi there Brian

 

ok will tackle this later and let you know resul tomorrow if thts ok

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

 

just a quick one what is the easiest way to access the climate control unit.

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi Chris

Ok to remove the climate control assembly you need to remove the trim round the audio unit

To do this remove the 2 triangle shaped covers them remove the 4 screws
Then pop/ lift up the trim that runs/covers the centre. Console

Start at the rear ( behind the cup holders and pop the trim upward the full trim will come up past the gear stick and up at an angle this full trim can be popped out and moved back to gain Cess to the last 2screws
Remove these Nd the Multiplugs at the top and then remove the trim
From memory the climate control assembly is held in by 4 screws

Regards brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

Ok if the system still doesn't operate you need to carry out the following resistance /continuity checks
As the wiring loom is routed differently on the earlier built new shap Mondeo


Ok check the continuity between pin 23 at the cluster ( grey/orange). And pin 3 at the DLC pin

Then check continuity between pin 22 at the cluster ( violet /orange ) and pin 11 at the DLC

Check continuity between pin 18 at the climate control assembly ( grey /orange) and pin 3 at the DLC.

Check continuity between PIn 19 at the climate control assembly and pin 11 at the DLC


Should read 0.00 ohms on each test
I suspect you will have a break or corrosion one of the medium speed can bus wires


Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

Well i have managed to get the surround off and have unpluged the the two looms from the back. Firstly how do you know which pins are which numbers and secondly what do you mean when you say "cluter wire"

 

 

Regards

Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there

The pin information and wiring colours are in my previous post

The cluster wire is I mean leave the multiplug connected and nick into the wiring

And also if the system is still not working
Follow my last post

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

i get that but not sure what you mean by join to cluter wire ie which cluter

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there
Its The instrument cluster I refer to

What i mean is nick into the wiring but leave the multiplug s connected

Peel back the insulation on the wires that I have mentioned and run 2 wires from the climate control to the instrument cluster ( with both Multiplugs connected )

This is basically to join the climate control to the cluster and eliminate the wiring between them

After doing this if the fault is still present
Carry out the continuity tests that I have you between the DLC and the cluster /climate control

Regards brian
Gallagher99, FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN
Category: UK Ford
Satisfied Customers: 2105
Experience: SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE
Gallagher99 and other UK Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there , thank you for the accept greatly appreciated
did you trace the fault to a medium speed can bus wiring issue

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Not yet will have to resume tomorrow . will let you know then.

 

 

 

 

Cheers Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
No worries Chris hopefully we can crack this issue

Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Bian

 

out of the back of the climate control there are two plugs so to do what we need to do are we running the wires between those two plugs as they both seem to have the some wires with the same colours one has a White plug and the other a Black plug. Or do we need just one of those (which one) and then join to the cluster .

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi Chris am sure it's the top back one pin18 an 19
check the pin number / wiring colour at this plug

Regards Brian

Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

Ok the White plug was the one which had both wire colours so we connected the ywo slave wires from there and connected to the instrument cluster and nothing happened, so we then did the continuity test as requested andgot 0hmns readings across all pins. One thing we did notice was when we unpluged the White plug ( with slave cables still attached ) the fan came on but the climate control display did not light up.

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

Ok the fan is meant to come on with the plug dissconnected

Ok remove the 2slave wires and do the continuity test s again

Regards Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

Continuity test ok with slave wires removed

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there chris Ok can you reattach the slave wires to the climate and the cluster Then nick into each wire and run another 2 slave wire to the DLC plug Grey / orange wire to pin 3 at the DLC plug Violet /orange wire to pin 11at the DLC plug It may be possible that the can wires are touching each other To check this carry out a continuity with the multiplug dissconnected at the cluster and climate control and check between pin 18 -climate to pin 22 at cluster And pin 19 -climate control to pin 23 at cluster This should read open circuit on each wireThanks for your pautence Iam just trying to eliminate possible wiring faults Sorry it is taking this long The wiring on these vehicles are do complex Can I ask Chris does all the door functions work eg windows , central locking etc It the vehicle has parking aid does this work If the vehicle has keyless start does this function ok Regard Brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

 

Ok done all of that and as you said they registered open circuit ie no needle movement at all.

 

Everything on the car works (dont have parking aid or keyless start on car ) Just dont have any climate control or aircon working , nonne of the cluster dials work neither climate control or cluster display L.E.Ds light up and when i turn my lights on none of the displays or surrounds light up. Also my radio only works on the 1 HOUR cycle. Cruise control works but does not display on the screen as the screen just shows total milage from when the display packed up , with no other functions showing. Would it be easier for me to call you ?

 

 

 

 

 

Regards Chris

 

 

 

 

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

We can't give out phone numbers or email addresses for site security

Ok did you run the 2 wires from the slave wires to the DLC plug

If the fault is still there after running the wires tfrom the slave wires to the DLC
I would like you to try something ,
What to do is earth a single piece of wire touch the each bus 18, one at a time at the climate control to see if the cluster lights up try this with the ignition off first then with the ignition on
Can you also measure the voltage on the can bus wire pin/s of( 18,19 of climate and 22 , 23 the cluster and with the ignition on )



As you have 27 ohms across pins 3 and 11 at the DLC plug (ignition off ) then there is a fault on the mid speed can lines
On the diagram the two mid speed can bus wires come from the BCMii ( gem module ) along several modules including the door modules
As these modules are workin you know mid speed can is ok up to that point


Regards Brian
The can bus wires then splice off to the DLC plug and then on to the cluster and the climate control
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris can you also check fuse 44 ( 5 amp ) in the battery fuse under the bonnet as this is an interference fuse for the can lines

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian

 

Ok we did the Voltage readings accross pins 18 & 19 at the climate control and 22 and 23 at the cluster with ignition on and there was no readings. We also did the earthed wire onto pin 18 at the climate control with no result. We retested the dlc across pins 3 and 11 and got 26 ohmns and accross pins 6 and 14 and this time no ohmns registering at all. i will go and check fuse 44 this morning and get back to you soonest.

 

When we did the slave wires the other day the LED surrounding the whole cental console lit up which should come on when side/main lights are on so we turned the sides on and the surround went out and never came back on.

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi Chris sorry
Measure the voltage at these pins individually to earth with the ignition on
Pins 18,19
Pins 22, 23

And also with the plugs dissconnected do a resistance test across them

Regards brian
Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi Chris

Can you Also check the resistance across pins 3 and 11 at the DLC plug with the cluster multiplug dissconnected Nd the ignition off
Should read 120 ohms

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian fuse 44 has no fuse in it and one of the tongues to hold it in is missing.

 

 

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Hi there Chris

Ok it seems only some models have Fuse 44 fitted
Check fuse s 24 and 27 in the interior Fuad box
Also carry out the test on last post Eg voltage at each pin ( igniton on ) and resistance across 3 and 11 with cluster dissconnected and ignition off

Regards brian
Customer: replied 2 years ago.

Hi Brian, sorry fpr the delay have been balistically busy at work. Anyway we found the problem it was one of the canbus wires had been caught during installation and eventually broke . it was inside the wireing loom behind the kicker plate on drivers side, the area where we first started the investigation, unfortunayely we pulled the wires in the oppersite direction from that point as from the outside the cable looked ok . Anyway thanks for all your help and will recommend yous service.

 

Regards Chris

Expert:  Gallagher99 replied 2 years ago.
Glad to hear that Chris
Was starting to doubt. Myself ,
As I said this is exactly where I had the issue and took me a few hours to work out where the fault lay

If you ever need Anymore help Chris please let me know
And hopefully I will be able to assist you

Regards in advance
Brian

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Gallagher99
Gallagher99
Ford Senior Technician
1720 Satisfied Customers
SVQ LEVEL 3, QAULIFIED FORD SENIOR TECHNICIAN , ATA REGISTERD ,12 YEARS EXPERIENCE