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Jo C.
Jo C., Barrister
Category: UK Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 64713
Experience:  Over 5 years in practice.
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I had an argument over my husband over a very petty issue which

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I had an argument over my husband over a very petty issue which got escalated. I was stressed and in depression raising highly demanding children and that led me mentally exhausted. As a result this the frustration came out over a petty issue which resulted in both of us verbally and physically abusing each other. I called the police as just needed some help without thinking of the consequences this will have.
Police came and spoke to us seperately. My husband was not knowing I had called the police, although he knew I had called someone. My husband admitted of him slapping me and me slapping him back. I pleaded to them not to take him away as I did not anticipated that. They told me that they will have to do their duty and take him away from questioning.
His fingerprints/dna/photos etc was taken and he was put in a cell before he duty solicitor came to speak with him. After listening to all of the details solicitor told him he he can defend himself as I had instigated the fight by verbal abuse and was pointing fingers at him and only after I charged back to him, he slapped me in his self defense after which I slapped him. He told the same thing at the interview as well and he was offered either to go to cps to defend himself or take the simple caution. My husband did not want to go down the court route as that would mean in order to defend himself he will have to become the victim and prove that it was me who was the instigator and there could be a chance that I was charged instead. Also the trauma this would leave on the children and police coming down and interviewing neighbors/etc was something that he did not want to pursue.
He accepted the simple caution to avoid all the court hastes and to close this matter.
We both deeply regret this incident and I would like to know what could be done now.
My questions are as follows
1) Can he challenge the simple caution on the grounds he was not guilty and he slapped me in his defense and that does not attribute to common assault?
2) Can I challenge or take legal help to get this caution removed from his name as I did not anticipate this, without impacting any legal action on myself?
3) After reading about simple caution I understand if there is a case of defense then he should not have been offered a simple caution? He had mentioned clearly in the interview that he slapped me because I was charging towards him and in his self defense he did that. Is that a reasonable ground to challenge this with the help of a lawyer?
4) If we just accept that and move on, as he is a IT contractor with contracts in financial companies. After doing research to my understanding, he does not have to disclose the caution as a simple caution is spent as soon as it is given. Can you advise in what circumstances he might require to disclose this information.
5) Any other help/suggestions so that we can get his name cleared from the police records?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Family Law
Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Hi

Thank you for your question and welcome to Just Answer. My name is XXXXX XXXXX I will try to help with this.

In order to give you an answer tailored to your circumstances, I will just need to ask you some preliminary questions so that I can consider your position from all angles.

Has he been in trouble before?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

No he has an absolute clean record and also the owner of a private limited company. We are both joint partners of the company.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Thanks

Why did he accept a caution if he wasn't guilty?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks.


 


He accepted for the reasons I have stated.


My husband did not want to go down the court route as that would mean in order to defend himself he will have to become the victim and prove that it was me who was the instigator and there could be a chance that I was charged instead which he did not want.


 


Also the trauma this would leave on the children and police coming down and interviewing neighbors/etc was something that he did not want to pursue.



He accepted the simple caution to avoid all the court hastes and to close this matter.


Further he was also advised by on-duty solicitor that he might have to stay apart and leave home until the court proceedings were done and that would mean leaving children behind with me on my own, which he did not want.


 


So just to avoid going to court and facing the unknown (i,e avoiding further trauma to our family) he accepted that.


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No, I understand that but you have to admit the offence to get a caution. You cannot raise a defence in interview and be cautioned.

I know this isn’t going to be the answer you want to hear, and it’s certainly not what I want to tell you. However, I wish to be completely honest with you, so I feel obligated to not give you false hope.

I'm afraid there is no way of doing what you seek to achieve. Come what may, he has accepted a caution. It wouldn't have been my advice to him to accept one but thats what he did.

You cannot appeal a caution. A caution is only available if you admit the offence to the police. Its like a guilty plea. You cannot appeal from your guilty plea save for very limited circumstances that don't apply to a caution.

You can judicially review the decision to offer a caution but its extremely expensive and there is no case here. He must have admitted the offence so there was a ground to offer a caution.

A caution is spent immediately and so it will not show on basic crb checking.

Unfortunately there's really only one way to avoid situations like this and that is sadly not to make reports to the police.

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you wanted but it is the position that you face and I have a duty to inform you truthfully.

Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more information.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thanks,


 


He had admitted to the offence but he stated that it was in his defense.


 


He had clearly mentioned in the interview that first he pushed me away as I was pointing fingers at him and was verbally abusive to him and he was trying to calm me down. I charged back towards him, it is then he slapped me in his defense.


 


So that's what he has admitted and he was remorseful of that and admitted that he did make an offense but that was to defend himself. He was being asked why he did not walk away and because this was all so spontaneous there was no thinking time but an instance reaction to events.

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
If that is the case then there are grounds to JR the decision.

If you are saying he raised a defence then they shouldn't have cautioned him

This does rely upon him raising a defence and not accepting that he acted aggressively out of frustration not defensively though.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you.


 


I would like to state at the end he was given a choice , either to go the CPS or take the caution by solicitor. He then said he would like to take the caution for the reasons I have mentioned before.


 


Can you please advise what is JR the decision mean and what can be done now? He did speak to the same solictor later during the day after he was home and the solicitor told him that it was his decision to take the simple caution and nothing can be done now and if will need to go to a different solicitor if he wishes to.


 


Can you please advise how should we proceed and whats involved in this and what could be possible consequences if we challenge this?


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
You really should look at this in more detail by somebody who has had full vision of the case before acting. A JR costs many thousands and its very unlikely that he has any chance. I realise that his recollection of interview is that he raised a defence but I was a police station rep for years before I went to the Bar and you just wouldn't allow a person to accept a caution where a defence has been raised particularly not with a domestic because of the problems with getting witnesses to court. It is possible that the solicitor neglected here but its not very likely.

You can approach another solicitor and probably that wouldn't be a bad idea. There's no real loss in that
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you.


 


can you please advise further.


 


1) If we do go down that route on consulting another solicitor for a JR, can you advise


could there be any legal charges that can be possible towards me (i.e if the court is happy that he was defending himself) so does that implicitly make me look guilty and possibly charged? I am trying to think, can this become more worse for any of us? i,e is he just better off accepting this and moving on ?


 


2) apart from the expensive cost for the JR , what could be the other implications?


 


3) you mentioned on basic crp check it does not show up , but I guess on advanced crp it will. Is it possible to request to remove this from his records after a couple of years or this is now indefinite on his profile


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
1. Not in this instance. They do sometimes issue wasting police time fines but they won't do that here

2. There won't be other costs implications but the cost of JR is large. Might be worth doing if there are grounds but if there are not then its a waste of time and funds

3. It will show on enhanced and standard checking, You can ask for its removal but obviously that carries a risk.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Thank you.


 


Can you advise a solicitor with whom we can discuss this further and represent JR?


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
Where are you roughly in the country?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

we live near bromley


my husband further spoke to on duty lawyer and asked explicitly why was he offered a simple caution when he had raised a defence and he said raising a defence did not matter in making a decision of offering him a simple caution.


 


 


Reading the published document it clearly says that that should not be an option to consider if a defence is raised.


 


Also he was not advice on all of the possible out come of him receiving a simple caution. For example restrictions in visa/travel to other countries etc.


 


In light of above I request you to advise whether this can be challenged as you mentioned if a defence is raised simple caution should not be offered.


 


Kindly advise a solicitor whom we can approach who is a specialist in JR and can help.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
No, thats not what I said.

A caution can be offered if an offence is admitted.

To be wholly honest, I suspect they got him to admit in interview that the slap was an act of frustration not self defence.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Can you suggest a lawyer around Bromley that you can recommend who specialises in JR?


 


This is my last query on this post.


Thank you for your help.


 


 

Expert:  Jo C. replied 1 year ago.
There are no JR specialists per se. JR is a route of appeal so everybody has to be aware of it.

What you need is a firm that sues the police. I think this firm

http://www.dpp-law.com/

sue the police.

I know that Tuckers here

http://www.tuckerssolicitors.com/

do but they are based in North London.

McCormacks do also here

http://www.mccormacks.co.uk/McCormacks_Law/Welcome.html
Jo C., Barrister
Category: UK Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 64713
Experience: Over 5 years in practice.
Jo C. and 2 other UK Family Law Specialists are ready to help you

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