UK Family Law
UK Family Law Questions Answered by Verified Experts
My ex is coming to my home tonight to 'serve papers' on me... I will read them and get back to you.
She is calling my sons daily and telling them that the judge has ordered me to keep the boys at their old school.
I think this is a little bit of 'gamesmanship'... please tell me that a judge wouldn't order me to do such a thing without even seeing or talking to me?
On the 6th of Sept I received an order made by Justice XXXXXXCourt of Appeal- with the word REFUSED in the decision for ex to appeal. He cited a strong CAFCASS report and ended with the phrase 'M has in my judgement, identified no remotely arguable basis for an appeal.'
Sighs of relief all around...until this morning.
I received another letter from the Court of Appeal telling me there is a hearing on the 3rd of Oct 2012 to hear X's request for appeal!!! It has the same case number XXXXX
It goes on to say that I don't need to attend or submit anything and...that I will be sent a copy of the order made at the hearing!
What gives? Is this normal? Can she appeal again?
Very worried again...
they love their new school and are having counselling, I spoke to her today and she told me there is a long way to go...
She won't stop. I know her...
I know court can be a roll of the dice sometimes, but I can't help thinking like a Policeman... I would need a fair bit of evidence to go for supervised contact and minimal 'phone contact, yes?
It's a tricky one: do I wait until the school has an evidence base (councillor, etc) I can draw from or... go now.
The first seems like the most likely to succeed but- has the problem of exposing the boys to more crazy/damaging behaviour... the second less exposure but less evidence...
I just feel for my sons...
In a month she has already behaved in odd ways.
My feeling would be that by Half term you will have more than enough to go with
Hi Claire... of course the inevitable has happened... the High Court of appeal has granted her permission to appeal the original appeal!
I have to file a skeleton argument before the 24th of October 4pm.
I fell sick to my stomach.
Now my poor sons are to face the prospect of being returned to her AGAIN...
The school have (as a matter of policy) provided councilling to my sons- the councillor immediately flagged the boys as a child protection issue from a point of view of emotional abuse from mum.
My one son Dominic (aged 12) has only been to his mums ONCE since the order was granted- he refuses because he is fed up of her rubbishing me and saying she will get them back.
1. What is the skeleton argument, where/how do I submit it and what should it contain?
2. What happens after the argument is filed?
3. If we win, is it the end?
4. Can I get CAFCASS involved again?
This is the text of the letter I received...
IN THE COURT OF APPEAL ON APPEAL FROM THE WORCESTER COUNTV COURT
BEFORE LORD JUSTICE XXXXXXXXXXXXX N THE MATTER OF The Children Act
ON READING the applicants Notice sealed on the 3rd September 2Ut2
filed by the Applicant mother applying for permission to appeal from the order of His Honour Judge XXXXXXXXXXX dated 23rd August 2012 AND ON HEARING the Apptrcant mother ran person and her McKensie friend
ITIS ORDERED that
I) permission to appeal be granted
2) the appeal to he heard before 2 or 3 Lords/Lady Justices one ¤I
wherein may be at Hugh Con Judge with a time estimate of 2 hours
3) the Respondent father to file a skeleton argument 4pm on Wednesday 24th October 2012...
Hope that helps...
Looks like permission to appeal against the appeal denial?
I had a sick feeling this may be the case...
I had no grounds for this appearance just a letter saying it was going to be heard.
The original appeal was aimed at four areas:
CAFCASS report was biased;
Judge Hooper didn't upheld the welfare list;
the effect a move would have on the children.
there were items missing from the order.
The hand written note is difficult to understand and is more of a rant.
She attended the hearing on the 3rd of October 2012 with a McKensie friend to argue in person.
My sons are horrified!
I have now received a letter from the High Court of Appeal in London informing me of a hearing on the 7th of November 2012.
The usual blurb about document etc...
You will be fine and so will the Children.
Nothing in what you have said makes me think that the original Judgement was flawed in any way.
have you had a copy of the Judgement in full - if not get it from the court - it should have been transcribed by now
I am curious: should I highlight the ex's blatant lie to her barrister (and therefore court) about places being available at the old school? The judges did not allow it to be on the table because it wasn't in writing-but...it may have been a decisive element to persuade them to change residency.
One judge did note the fact that in her written statement she stated the places had been taken then categorically confirmed there were places-she claimed to have checked.
I, Richard XXXXXXXXXXX bn. XXXXXXXXX of XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, make this statement consisting of five pages of my own free will and I make it knowing I may be prosecuted if I say anything false or anything I believe not to be true.
I make this statement on the 13th of December 2012.
This statement is a response to the statement of Agnieszka XXXX date stamped as 23rd of November 2012…it should be noted I only received this and notice of proceedings on the 12th of December 2012.
Did not go well I'm afraid.
Her barrister and legal team convinced the Judge that Thomas needs to be seen by a clinical psychologist presumably to see what would best serve him from an SEN point of view. That report to be made available to the CAFCASS officer to feed into another report about his schooling and the problems with contact (they hate going...). All this to be done by the middle of March 2013 for another final hearing set for three days.
I suspect that this is a prelude to an attempt to force Thomas back to Hagley school as it is an excellent school. This will be logistically difficult for me to do, so... they will go for a return of children to mum in order for the best schooling to be available to him.
They are drafting a new order for me to look over and approve too-with extra contact in the week (a Wednesday evening for a meal etc...).
I feel as if this is slipping away from me and there is nothing I can do to stop it... I received a VERY clear message from the judge that should any more contact issues arise, he will deal with and draw inferences from my in ability to make it work.
My one son, Dominic would rather go to school than go on holiday with her. Such is his level of dislike.
Do you think I should just give in to the school thing and find a way to make it work? It would be mega difficult -I would need to arrange work hours appropriate to the train etc...
Or continue...with the possibility I am being slowly out manoeuvred into returning the kids to her?
Another question: in 18-months time Thomas with be 16...will that make any difference?
But... if the psy does say it's worthwhile?
yes...after the psych...
not sure- sometime before the 20th of feb according to the letter...
They are both receiving councilling at the moment... the councillor was the lady that referred them to Social services because of emotional abuse by mum...
Not yet but it's only a matter of time... I'm doing what I can to help him by telling him how unlikely a change of school is and that follows how unlikely a change of residence is but I cant rule it out due to the seemingly random thinking of judges... she is constantly lying to them too telling them she has places for them at hagley school, that she will get them to hagley and she has experts for court that will help her to win...
The pressure on them is huge. It's not helped by me forcing them to go to stay with her.
Hello...just keeping you in the picture...
The psychologists appointment is through for this fri (25th) ... this is a week after the file date given by the court (18th) ...
My son is relieved that I am taking him for the 3-hour assessment but has already indicated that he is of a mind not to go...
I know I can persuade him, but what would happen if he flatly refused? Would I be in serious trouble?
Also... is the failure to file by a date important?
Following the report being filed I will be hearing from CAFCASS...
Once that report is done I will have a better idea of what we can expect.
Do you think I may need a solicitor 'in the flesh' or a McKensie?
You know what a worrier I am ;-)
They did...via the judge who approved in court...
Ex/School/myself given reports to fill in...
I scored son 16.5, School scored 17.5 and ex scored 37.5...
Following examination, Psychologist states in her report:
Son is not autistic...possibly has Aspergers but not autism
That ex has 'little empathy for son...
That ex has little understanding of the effect court is having on Thomas...
That ex had deliberately scored high for son for reason unknown...
Cafcass report not completed yet as the officer is ill in hospital and court likely to be adjourned until April 20ish.
Son has self harmed with a razor...he scratched his arms several times... School noticed... CAFCASS referred to Social Serv... GP aware and we are going to see her asap... with a view to CAHMS appointment... Son stated nobody is listening and he was angry at his mum and being forced to go...
He has not gone on the weekend contact...other son has gone...
Her sol has emailed me twice: first, to warn me that ex may take me to court to enforce... and second to say CAFCASS have emailed them to suggest a reduction in contact temporarily...but I am still in the frame for court action.
What should I do?
i am at my witts end...will do thank you..
DISCLAIMER: Answers from Experts on JustAnswer are not substitutes for the advice of an attorney. JustAnswer is a public forum and questions and responses are not private or confidential or protected by the attorney-client privilege. The Expert above is not your attorney, and the response above is not legal advice. You should not read this response to propose specific action or address specific circumstances, but only to give you a sense of general principles of law that might affect the situation you describe. Application of these general principles to particular circumstances must be done by a lawyer who has spoken with you in confidence, learned all relevant information, and explored various options. Before acting on these general principles, you should hire a lawyer licensed to practice law in the jurisdiction to which your question pertains.
The responses above are from individual Experts, not JustAnswer. The site and services are provided “as is”. To view the verified credential of an Expert, click on the “Verified” symbol in the Expert’s profile. This site is not for emergency questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals. Please carefully read the Terms of Service (last updated February 8, 2012).