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Ben Jones
Ben Jones, UK Lawyer
Category: UK Employment Law
Satisfied Customers: 8776
Experience:  Qualified Employment Solicitor - Please start your question with 'For Ben Jones'
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Worked incouncil till 26th October. Resigned in mid

Customer Question

Worked incouncil till 26th October. Resigned in mid September. Asked for retraction. Arranged a discussion with my manager. She had established by 2 email to HR that she had the choice to withdraw resignation. We had balanced chat about it. At end she
said to send her an email with formal request to withdraw. I did this citing good career etc. Sensible email. My manager emailed me back next day that she had forwarded my request to HR and asked them to stop and reverse my resignation process. I strongly
felt that my resignation was withdrawn. I now saw things in that light. 9 days later she changed her mind and sent instructions to continue with my resignation. She stated that a senior HR had picked up the situation and had advised her to re-instate the resignation
process. I had received the relevant documents earlier and now received another set after change. At the time of my resignation a redundancy package was offered to pretty well everyone. So this is why I asked, knowing I had no rights, for a retraction. At
above mentioned discussion with boss she at no time said 'no' to my rquest though she did not specifically say yes - instead she went through the procedure as described. HR and Legal said they would never give me the package deal. And after my notice period
refused it formally. They claim that my boss sent a 'holding letter' not a retraction. Boss sent it to standard HR processors and not to any more senior management. And as said she informed me at our chat without ambiguity it was her decsion to make. I am
claiming unfair dismissal. Basic redundancy. This is much the same as the package I was denied. Any advice on how to win my case. Doing ACAS soon but Counci hoping I won;t pay the tribunal bill, Even threatening vexation - they have no chance on that. But
you see their childish tactics. I acepted I had resigned. I would have taken a 'no' answer. But having been taken back into the fold and thinking I might get a bit of fair play redundancy package-wise and then having HR and Legal - who are not the decision
makers, and were not asked - force a uturn is not acceptable.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Employment Law
Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.

Hello my name is ***** ***** I am happy to help you today. How long have you worked there for?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
10 years.
Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.

I'm unclear what happened after you asked for the resignation to be retracted? when you were of the impression that HR had agreed to the retraction was anything put in writing to that affect? You mention documents but do not say what they are ?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
When resigning HR send out a letter confirming this and giving relevant advice etc.
I am off the view, as clearly stated by my boss based on very specific advice from HR, that it was not for HR to agree but simply to process the request by the manager which it appears is what they did. Took me off their resignation procedures, got me back on the payrall list/pension etc.
Someone in seems to have given the heads up to a senior HR person, involved in the redundancy package, and this person then contacted my boss persuading her to change her mind. Which she did. There was 9 days between my bosses instruction to stop and reverse my resignation procedure and the advice coming from the other HR department/section invovled in the redundancy package which I was tryng to get. Theywere not happy with this and stated thagt the council would never agree to giving the redundancy package. So best she changed her mind i.e. 're-instate' the resignation procedure. Which she did.
Their argument is that my boss sent a 'holdng' email and not a retraction email. Yet the retrqction request did not go to anyone who could ake a decision e.g. her bosses up the line management or someone in HR specifically employed to deal with retractions despite it being the bosses decsion.
Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.

So in fact what you are saying is that you retracted your resignation to benefit from redundancy. What evidence do you have to support the fact you were removed then put back on , do you have the wording of the email in dispute?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I had been on a work break and had discussed retiring with managers for some tie with the view of a redundancy package coming along sometime. The advice I got was that I would not get it anyway so if retirng early had some advantage it was as well to take it. Then ironically just as I decided to retire thepackage turned up and it was for anyone and everyone. I was a housinf officer and my job was essential and productive so would not disappear. But with an increasingly large redeployment list caused by massive cuts going on I could give my job to someone else and save that redundancy cost.
The important point for me is that there are emails in HR stating clearly that the boss Michaela was the decision maker. Whatever she may have intended - and she absolutely did not say no - she sent the request described below to HR/payroll team that process these thing. The xxxx xxxxx who gave the ADVICE [not decision] was of another section dealing with the redundancy package 'VERA'.
He clearly advises that the process be 're-instated' implying that he had received notice of a withdrawal of resignation i.e. one that required to be 're-instated'.
But I don't want to get in a fight I cant win. Plenty other things to do. Alternatively, if I continue I seek some savvy approaches.
to me
14 OctDetails
Hi Eric
Just to let you know, I passed on your request to withdraw your notice to HR yesterday and have asked for them to stop / reverse any processing of your leavers form at this time. I will let you know if I hear anything further.
Best wishes
Michaela
me
22 OctDetails
Good morning Eric
I have heard from xxxx xxxxx, xxxxxx xx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx, regarding your request to retract your resignation. What he has advised is that, a resignation is ‘a unilateral breach of contract’ so you are now in your notice period. The Council would not reinstate someone at this stage for the reasons which exist in your case. His advice is that you can ask to be considered for VERA – which you have done, but you would not be granted VERA in your circumstances as you are currently under notice of resignation and only wish to be reinstated to seek VERA which is not a right or employee benefit - especially in the Councils current financial circumstances.
Consequently he has advised that your leavers form should be reinstated and processed accordingly. In these circumstances I don’t think there is anything further that can be done and so I will ask Carol to continue to process this.
I am sorry to tell you this as I know it was not what you hoped to hear, however I also hope this is not too unexpected. If I can be of assistance with anything else please let me know.
Best wishes
Michaela
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Just to add - at my discussion with Michaela, all of our disussions helpful and considerate, she described her 2 email discussions with HR, and against her preference I am quite sure, it was clear to her that the decision whether or not to retract my resignation was hers.
I can see also later - 9 days after the retraction was requested/instructed? by her - Mr xxxx xxxxx advises her regarding her decision.
So my question is whether technically did she retract or not. Of course, there was still doubt and lots more to hear regarding whether I got VERA package. That was a wait and see and a dynamic process in a fast changing restrucure to save costs by a newly appointed Council CEO.
The question of whter someone retiring on the day a package is offered where the financial incompetence of the council and governments had nothng to do with a hardworking member of staff is in my view irrelevant. I have friends in senior positions in the provate secgtor who felt they would have quietly supported such a worker(s). The coucil is not of this quality but Michaela perhpas was. Or she did not have the emotional strength to just say no. I can't say. But the retrqction request was not denied and theperson in charge of the decision asked for the resignation process to be stopped and reversed.
If I have not persuaded you by now - then I must get on with something else - I have to pay for this at the tribunal. ACAS first but I have zero expectation o the council not taking advantage of my having to pay and they not.
I am happy to pay a top up if this is too much of a question.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Or put another way.Eric, I passed on your request to withdraw your notice to HR yesterday and have asked for them to stop / reverse any processing of your leavers form at this time.Best wishesMichaelaIs this a retraction? If it were said verbally to you, would you think it was a retraction? Is it above average likely it is a retraction?Apologies for persistent updates. I am continuing to try and understand how this might otherwise be interpreted to any great probability. Especially as it was her decision to make? And she knew it was and John Allan effectively confirmed it was - only advising wth no authority of his own to decide.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
My intention is to seek standard redundancy payment which is 1.5 x annuals in my case [age 63].
My position was that my manager rightly or wrongly withdrew, within her specific authority so to, do my resignation. This on the 14th October. I then fully and firmly believed things had changed and set my sights differently including returning to work early from break or sitting out my break now knowing the true situation in the council.
Mr xxxx xxxxx thretened to exclude me from the redundancy package and presseed my manager to try and withdraw her retraction - which I did not agree to - and I received an email on the 22nd saying I was to be unemployed 4 days later.
Allan advised my manager the decision maker to 're-instate' the resignation forms/procedure.
Allan was at fault for not respectfully ***** ***** managers decision and then threatening to withhold any opportunity for redundancy deals regardless that I was now back at work and a full time member of staff - looking at retirement options at age 63.
I hope you are back on the scene - and had a good weekend - my additions may seem overwhelming but they are helping me see my case. Now I need to see another perspective - ideally not an HR one where the retratcion should not have been retracted in the first place. That was not my decision. I fully acknowledged my resignation. I felt there was an argument for withdrawing it. I put it in an email. I was 100 % entitled so to do. It was accepted.
I have to make all the payments - which is a notorious poilitical manoeuvre - and am unlikely to get my costs back win or lose.
The council's solicitors are playing on this - on a member of there staff/a colleague - and not negotiating or considering options. Just threatening. Even that my claim is vexatious and I would have to pay them. If I have a strong case and get no money back I ought to challenge these people.
Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.

Hello I am very sorry for the delay in getting back to you I was called away on something urgent. Would you still like help with this?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Morning - Yes, I confess to getting a bit edgy on this this morning but now I see how things are.A reply would be much appreciated.I would add that I am presently on pension credits so will investigate as to whether I can avoid missing a tribunal due to the council taking advantage of/manipulating the pricing situation system currently in place.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where is my answer??????

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