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UKSolicitorJA
UKSolicitorJA, Solicitor
Category: UK Employment Law
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Experience:  solicitor
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have now been dismissed on failure to check necessary paperwork

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have now been dismissed on failure to check necessary paperwork to allow goods out of premises i have denied this allegation they say they have evidence on camera they sent me a copy of this tape which is blank i have asked for another copy and other paperwork to prove these items were legally bought through stock movements etc, they have said they would send however today they have said the investigation is concluded and i cannot have them, i am appealing against their decision which they are aware of are they allowed to withhold necessary evidence to myself which would cle,arly show my innocence
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Employment Law
Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.
Hello and welcome to Just Answer, how long have you worked there for?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

sorry i thought i was talking to the man i spoke to the other day. nearly six months

Expert:  Jenny McKenzie replied 1 year ago.
Hi would you like me to see if the other person can assist you. If you do tell me who they are and I'll let them know. If not could you tell me what you would like to know about this?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

no thats fine briefly i work at a merchants on on the 9/feb this year a man came in with paper work to pick up two boilers already paid for showed me the paperwork so he got them on the 22nd feb the staff member alleged i had given them with no paperwork i had no knowledge of this allegation till the 12 march when i was suspended for alleged gross misconduct i have now been dismissed with no evidence only the word of the man who alleged it, i was given the job to straighten up the branch and get the staff to start doing the jobs they are meant to do i have had to have words with certain individuals who are very clickey and it didnt go down well i was given camerz evidence which was blank i was also given interview tapes where one is inaudible and one that stops and starts all the stock reports show there is no boilers missing tuesday i requested another report which they said i could have yesterday i did not get it nor did i get a copy of the camera footage apparently showing the allegation they dismissed me by phone and have informed me today as their investigation has concluded i cannot have the paperwork, i have not informed them yet i am going to appeal, have they got the right not to give me the information they agreed to which i do have on email and the apparent camera footage

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Hello again,

You can point out that the tape is blank and that there is ni evidence to support the allegations made against you.

You may make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act for the tapes showing you, if they fail to provide, you could complain to the Information Commissioner.

But as stated earlier, I am afraid that you do not have the minimum period of service to bring an unfair dismissal claim.

You may bring a wrongful dismissal claim if you have not been given notice as per your contract or pay in lieu.

Hope this helps
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

before the meeting was adjourned on tuesdays mneeting it was agreed both parties wanted to see specific paperwork which was noted as agreed on two serperate occassions am i not still entitled to have this information as at the time it was agreed i was still employed and will i not need it for my appeal and possible tribunal


 

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Yes, you should ask for it as agreed.

If they don't give it to you, then you should point out that they are in breach of contract as that was what was agreed.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

should i contact them requesting the paperwork and copy of their cctv or would it be best to make that point on the bullet points when i put in my appeal, which they have told me i have to do within five working days of receiving their final decision papers however i was informed by a colleague i am meant to put in my appeal asap can you advise which is the correct time limit

 

also should i not have been told on the 22nd feb when first reported to security that an allegation had been made against me for an incident that apparently happened on the 9th feb, and should it not have been reported to my line manager rather than security in the first instance?

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
You could put in the request as part of your appeal letter. You need to submit your appeal within 5 days of your dismissal decision as indicated to you.

As regards XXXXX XXXXX the incident, unless there is a specific policy in place setting out the process for reporting, then I am afraid you cannot challenge who and when it was reported in your case.

Your main focus should be on lack of evidence against you to warrant your dismissal but you should bear in mind that your employer may dismiss you if they have a reasonable suspicion against you, even without specific evidence, and bearing in mind you cannot bring an unfair dismissal claim in the tribunal as you have not been employed for 2 years.

All the best-please leave feedback

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i do appreciate what you are telling me what i cannot understand is how if i had commited this gross misconduct procedure on the 9th feb surely when it was first reported on the 22nd feb why i was allowed to continue working in the same premises under the same responsibilities with the same access to allowing goods out of the branch until the 12th march i had no knowledge of this allegation until i was called in for an interview with security and suspended surely if this allegation was true i should of been suspended and notified within a few days otherwise i could have had plenty of opportunity to carry on doing the same thing i know i am probably annoying you but it just doesnt make sense to me sorry also after the meeting on tuesday of this week they said they needed more time to make a decision regarding the conclusion and would ring me the next day on the call they dismissed me apparently there was a note taker but i was not introduced to that person so i have no evidence there was one, i have been informed a company cannot dismiss you by phone can you advise?

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
No, you cannot be dismissed by telephone, the employer should set down in writing the fact that you are being dismissed following meeting with you.

Unless your dismissal was automatically unfair, I am afraid at the end of the day you have no right to bring an unfair dismissal claim.

The usual grounds for automatic unfair dismissal are where the dismissal occurs as follows:

  • connected to pregnancy, childbirth, the employee taking maternity or paternity leave, adoption leave, parental leave, or time off to look after dependants;
  • related to health & safety;
  • due to a refusal to work Sundays (shop or betting workers);
  • related to the employee exercising a right under the Working Time Regulations;
  • the performance of functions as a trustee of occupational pensions scheme;
  • related to the functions of an employee representative;
  • due to the employee making a protected disclosure (whistleblowing);
  • the assertion of a statutory right;
  • the exercise of a right under the National Minimum Wage Act;
  • the taking of action in connection with a tax credit;
  • relating to membership of a trade union;
  • due to the employee taking protected industrial action;
  • the employee did acts in connection with their rights under the Part-time Workers (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment) Regulations;
  • the employee took action in connection with their rights under the Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Regulations;
  • the employee took action in connection with their rights under the Fixed-Term Employees (Prevention of Less Favourable Treatment Regulations);
  • the employee undertook jury service;
  • the employee was selected for redundancy for any of the above reasons.

None of the above would appear to apply in your case.

 

 

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

last question before i give you a headache, i am going to appeal however as i told you before all the people i am up against are friends from the staff member who made the original allegation to my line manager, group security and the man who dismissed me i also know his manager is also good friends with the said group is there any way i can request for my appeal hearing to be conducted by someone on the same level but in a different region who will be unbiased (when i had my last meeting with him on 16 questions asked of him his answer was i cannot answer that, which were questions in my favour eg why is my cctv copy blank they have told me now they have made their decision and do not have to give me any further information)

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Yes, you may certainly ask for the appeal to be dealt with by a different person, in fact this is expected from the employer anyway that the same person who dismissed you cannot hear the appeal, see ACAS codes

All the best
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

sorry promise last one the company i work for is pts (bss group) but my salary is paid by travis perkins as pts is under their umbrella can i ask for someone away from the pts division to handle my appeal as i am sure you will agree the pts(bss) group would more than likely be biased as they are covering each others backs in every way


 


thank you so much

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Yes, you may ask for that, however, whether or not they agree is a different matter.

Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

hi again, just had a thought the branch where that allegation was made against me has cctv but it only faces the door, would i be able to make a claim that the company was negligent as if the camera was facing the counter where the till and staff members are therefore that would prove my innocence, not sure why a camera would only show people going in and out, that holds no protection to the staff at all i am not after any monies from the company i just want my job and name back thanks

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
The company has no legal obligation as such to have CCTV on its premises, so I am afraid I do not see a judge buying your argument that the company was negligent in such a case as you mention.

Please leave feedback as your queries have been answered.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i think you missed what i meant , there IS CCTV in the branch my question was if a company installs cctv is it meant to protect the staff and their property?, and as such surely as care for the staff and the buisinesses property the cctv should be positioned in aplace of use eg facing the counter where the till and staff could be seen not only monitoring the door?

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
I did not miss the point, the fact that there is CCTV does not mean that the company is bound to use it for the safety of staff and property, there is no obligation on the company to instal CCTV in the first place, the fact that it has done so does not mean it should use it to protect staff and property, although these would be some of the key reasons it has been installed-sorry.

See here for further info on use of CCTV in the workplace:
http://www.quotebean.co.uk/buying-services/cctv-cameras/help-to-buy-guides/cctv-cameras-and-employee-privacy-rights/


Please leave feedback as promised
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

i will leave feedback for you however after telling you the whole truth, is there anything else i may or can do to help my case as i said i really am 100% innocent but they are taking the word of another member of staff against mine, i have been in this industry for over 27 years with a clear record and they have said that the other person who has been in this job for 7years has alot of integrity (the people interviewing me have made it very clear his word is more believable than mine!) ,and without any cctv evidence which we have established records nothing at the counter area where we deal with customers, where does that leave me all i want is my job back and my name cleared. I know if the appeal is to be heard by pts and not tp yet again another it will not be biased. I do appreciate your assistance and i know i must be annoying you but this is my life being messed around with, ( i was under the impression as i am doing the 7day free membership trial to be able to ask as many questions as i need and my monthly payment would start on the 25/4/13 i didnt realise i still had to do feed back on every question sorry)

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Unless you can show specific evidence which conradicts the company or your colleague, I am afraid you are in a tight corner, if there was anything else that would have helped you, I would have advised you.

I do sympathise with your position.

Good luck
UKSolicitorJA, Solicitor
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Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Hi remember me, need to know where I go from here, I put in my appeal letter etc within the five days and tracked them they were delivered to the hr office at 6.02 am on the 16th April and signed for by the post master clerk I have just rang the hr to find out if they have a date etc for the appeal they told me they have not received any papers from me luckily I had the tracking details name etc to prove it was received, where do I go from here as after all the other discrepancies in their procedures etc this is the icing on the cake

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Please post a new question, I will get one of my other colleagues, Ben Jones, to answer you as he is more experienced in tribunal matters
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

ok thanks i am just re-sending the same question so hopefully he can advise where I go from here


 


Hi remember me, need to know where I go from here, I put in my appeal letter etc within the five days and tracked them they were delivered to the hr office at 6.02 am on the 16th April and signed for by the post master clerk I have just rang the hr to find out if they have a date etc for the appeal they told me they have not received any papers from me luckily I had the tracking details name etc to prove it was received, where do I go from here as after all the other discrepancies in their procedures etc this is the icing on the cake they have now informed me they have no idea where this package has gone to and the post clerk is not there today what are my rights on this i have emailed them the prove eg tracking signature etc, i cannot afford to lose any more time on this as i need to be working and with this false allegation against me i have to get my name cleared to get another job


 

Expert:  UKSolicitorJA replied 1 year ago.
Sorry, you need to start a new question thread, not continue on the same one

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