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Juan Crespo
Juan Crespo, Tech Trainer
Category: UK Car
Satisfied Customers: 1525
Experience:  A.S.E. Master Technician, Advanced Level, Emissions - Asian, Domestic, & European
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I have my own performance shop i have a 2003 dodge ram 2500

Customer Question

hey so i have my own performance shop i have a 2003 dodge ram 2500 5.9 cummins the story behind the truck was the kid put aftermaket cd player in and the dash sweeped and the truck went dead truck was confirmed no crank no start with combus failer. i have changed the dash cluster witch has fixed the lights and few other little weird issues it was haveing same with the intergraded power module, have the truck cranking now, will run on starting fluid, but if u stright from off postion to crank the truck will light and run for 2 seconds under its own fuel but then stalls out, wont start till u do what i just stated if u turn key off and on quickly after u get it started u can get it to run if u do not leave the key on longer then 2 seconds, but the sentry key light duz not light up unless cranking sometimes!
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: UK Car
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist with this today.In some cases I may need more info to assist better.I apologize for any delay.

Have you had the fault codes checked to see if any codes are set with a scan tool that will plug in and communicate with all computers?

Let me know so we can continue,thanks Pete.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
p0652 - j1850 com bus, intergraded power moudle says loss of jeep engine controller, pcm says no cluster message received , cluster says no pcm msg received, no abs msg received, no air bag msg received, these are the hard codes i can not clear, the intergrade module is year correct only has 1 number differnt in serial numbers but is still is used part but like i stated once changed light and whippers started working correctly,
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
but i can go in a talk to the modules on there own except abs and air bag modules,
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

With the old module did you have the same communication messages above and were you able to communicate with the abs and air bag computers with the old module installed?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no if u install the old intergraded module it gives u no bus on the cluster
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
witch module controlls the bus net work? is it the intergraded module or the pcm?
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

The instrument cluster shows to be the main bus computer and is a major computer on this model here.I have seen the instrument cluster fail several times before in the past needing replaced for this issue here.If you have this connection under hood check and see if it is corroded and clean and tighten it as it can be an issue as well for this here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c3ul6p0q2dwkyf/bus-02-29.jpg?dl=0

If this is found to be o.k. this can be an issue with the cluster connections.

The only other thing I can think of is the electronic ignition switch has failed causing signal issues or a fault with the integrated module installed since it is one number off it may not be fully compatible with your model here.

If more help is needed, use the reply tab to continue our conversation. If no further assistance is needed, kindly rate my service.You can rate at any time and we can continue to work on your question as this will not close out your question.Keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair your vehicle without seeing it and I work on delivering the best possible answer from what I see to work with.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
what can cuz the sentry immoblizer not to light up on the cluster?
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

The instrument cluster controls this light.The instrument cluster should turn on this light with key on even if there is no issues present as long as the proper power and grounds are present at the instrument cluster.The cluster also controls this light when a fault is detected with the security system.Here is the exact info for this on this model here.

SECURITY INDICATOR A security indicator is standard equipment on all instrument clusters. However, on vehicles not equipped with the optional Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS), this indicator is electronically disabled. The security indicator is located in the lower right quadrant of the instrument cluster, between the speedometer and the coolant temperature gauge. The security indicator consists of a small round cutout in the opaque layer of the instrument cluster overlay. The dark outer layer of the overlay prevents the indicator from being clearly visible when it is not illuminated. A red Light Emitting Diode (LED) behind the cutout in the opaque layer of the overlay causes the indicator to appear in red through the translucent outer layer of the overlay when it is illuminated from behind by the LED, which is soldered onto the instrument cluster electronic circuit board. The security indicator is serviced as a unit with the instrument cluster. The security indicator gives an indication to the vehicle operator when the Vehicle Theft Security System (VTSS) is arming or is armed. On models equipped with the Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS), the security indicator also gives an indication to the vehicle operator of the status of the SKIS. This indicator is controlled by a transistor on the instrument cluster circuit board based upon cluster programming, hard wired inputs to the cluster from the various security system components, electronic messages received by the cluster from the (RKE) receiver module over a dedicated serial bus, and electronic messages received by the cluster from the (SKIM) over the Programmable Communications Interface (PCI) data bus. The security indicator Light Emitting Diode (LED) is completely controlled by the instrument cluster logic circuit, and that logic will allow this indicator to operate whenever the instrument cluster receives a battery current input on the fused B(+) circuit. Therefore, the LED can be illuminated regardless of the ignition switch position. The LED only illuminates when it is provided a path to ground by the instrument cluster transistor. The instrument cluster will turn on the security indicator for the following reasons: - Bulb Test - Each time the ignition switch is turned to the On position, the SKIM tells the cluster to illuminate the SKIS indicator for about two seconds as a bulb test. - VTSS Indication - During the sixteen second VTSS arming function, the cluster will flash the security indicator on and off repeatedly at a steady, fast rate to indicate that the VTSS is in the process of arming. Following successful VTSS arming, the cluster flashes the security indicator on and off continuously at a slower rate to indicate that the VTSS is armed. The security indicator continues flashing at the slower rate until the VTSS is disarmed or triggered. If the VTSS has alarmed and rearmed, the cluster will flash the security indicator at a steady, slow rate for about thirty seconds after the VTSS is disarmed. - SKIM Lamp-On Message - Each time the cluster receives a lamp-on message from the SKIM, the security indicator will be illuminated. The indicator can be flashed on and off, or illuminated solid, as dictated by the SKIM message. The indicator remains illuminated solid or continues to flash until the cluster receives a lamp-off message from the SKIM, or until the ignition switch is turned to the Off position, whichever occurs first. For more information on the SKIS and the security indicator control parameters, refer to Vehicle Theft Security / Sentry Key Immobilizer System Operation. - Communication Error - If the cluster receives no SKIS lamp-on or lamp-off messages from the SKIM for twenty consecutive seconds, the SKIS indicator is illuminated by the instrument cluster. The indicator remains controlled and illuminated by the cluster until a valid SKIS lamp-on or lamp-off message is received from the SKIM. - Actuator Test - Each time the instrument cluster is put through the actuator test, the security indicator will be turned on, then off again during the bulb check portion of the test to confirm the functionality of the LED and the cluster control circuitry. The instrument cluster circuitry controls the security indicator whenever the ignition switch is in the Off position and the VTSS is arming, armed, or alarming. Whenever the ignition switch is in the On or Start positions, the SKIM performs a self-test to decide whether the SKIS is in good operating condition and whether a valid key is present in the ignition lock cylinder. The SKIM then sends the proper lamp-on or lamp-off messages to the instrument cluster. For further diagnosis of the security indicator or the instrument cluster circuitry that controls the indicator, refer to Instrument Cluster Diagnosis and Testing. If the instrument cluster flashes the SKIS indicator upon ignition On, or turns on the SKIS indicator solid after the bulb test, it indicates that a SKIS malfunction has occurred or that the SKIS is inoperative. For proper diagnosis of the VTSS, the SKIS, the SKIM, the PCI data bus, or the electronic message inputs to the instrument cluster that control the security indicator, a DRBIII scan tool is required. Refer to the appropriate diagnostic information.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the cluster is ether not programed for the skim or cluster is no good is there a chance that the skim module on the colum could have been shorted out? the light will come on with self test but like i stated the llight will only turn on randomly from time to time usely light will not illuminate at all. im just trying to find the apporate systems to go after, i know it will run, i know something is killing the injector pules after the key has been on for 3 seconds! if u go fromoff stright to crank will fire and runs for 2 seconds but if u turn the key on and wait 2 seconds then crank the truck will just crank! is there a way to disable the skim for testing reasons or is there a way to program the truck not to use the skim module?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1c3ul6p0q2dwkyf/bus-02-29.jpg?dl=0 this is not the right module at all looks like 07 this truck is 2003 with ovel conectors on the back
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

I suspect more of a cluster fault here.It controls the light even if the skim is an issue the light should still come on so this does sound like either cluster programming or the cluster itself at fault.The cluster will cause all of the issues here.I dont show a procedure on disabling this to bypass it to check this here but with the light not coming on at all I am leaning heavy towards the cluster.

I wasnt sure if your model had this connector or not but wanted you to check and see.

Let me know if you need anything else and feel free to rate my help here.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
pulled her back in the shop trying few new things noticed with low batterys and cranking the s***** *****ght turns on while cranking, what is the best way to go about checking ciricts on back of cluster
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

Below are the cluster connections.I would test and make sure you have all battery B+ powers and Ignition powers as well as ground signals.The PCI bus is the signal from the SKIM for the light control but I dont show or know of a way to test this signal myself manually.The cluster is usually the main cause here.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4q3drqv8xnm75mc/c-03-01.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7av1qc17ho7p7ub/cl-03-01.gif?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ybqx36whbx9g55/clu-03-01.gif?dl=0

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok here are the cluster self test codes A3,AA,AC,AD,AE
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

A3 looks to be a battery voltage open fault

AA is PCM message not received

AC is ABS message not received

AD is FCM message not received

AE is ACM message not received.

Clear out the codes reconnect and re check and see if the codes come back again

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
AA,AC,AD,AE these always come back they are a hard code
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

Is this occuring with the cluster kept plugged in and battery not being disconnected?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i clear out the codes and there hard codes just come right back i use a snap on scan tool
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

Do you know if these codes are or were setting with the old cluster in place?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
they set with ether cluster but the odd part is the alarm system is now working key fobs will lock and unlock doors and arm and dissable the alarm system... this function never worked before. seems everytime i play with something i get another system back but not the ones that are the issue, i have to find what is telling the ecm to kill the injector pules...
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

This is a tough one for me to answer myself here fully with what is occuring.Electrical issues like this here can be tough to diagnose from here in some cases.if you want I can open your question up for others here to see if anyone else can assist further just let me know if this is something you would like to do.

Thanks Pete

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that would be great
Expert:  Pete replied 1 year ago.

No problem.

I will open your question up for others here to see if someone else can assist further on this as there may be others here that may have more info on what to check or do with this issue.I hope you can get this resolved with ease.No need to reply to my last post here unless it is a last resort as it will keep your question locked to me and others will not be able to view it.If you feel you want to continue to work with me on this feel free to reply at any time but keep in mind in some cases it can be difficult to fully diagnose or help repair this without seeing your vehicle.

Thanks Pete

Expert:  Juan Crespo replied 1 year ago.

Hello. Different expert here.

Sounds like the new cluster is not on the nework. Was it programmed to the Body Control Module?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no i have also changed the intergraded power module with new from dodge, the bcm i spose is the silver box on the side of the integrated has been changed also (used) old one when u plug it in instantly give u no bus on the cluster (both clusters) reson for changeing the cluster was lights and whipers where unresponsive and always on, truck showed up no crank no start, the kid wired in a stereo and got something wrong was told that when they started the truck the cluster would sweep said did this few times then died , became no crank no start! once it showed up after bein at 2 other shops was still confirmed no crank no start, i was unable to talk to anymodule in the truck at that point, i changed the intergraded module and bcm with used from another truck instanly the no bus was gone and was starting to talk to modules, did testing came to the cluster was no good so changed with used same year, lights and other systems connected started functioning right, but no skimm light... found the truck would run with starting fluid... then i was randomly doing ckp csp sensors test on my scaner and went straght from off to crank with the key turned over for 1 second then fired under own fuel for 2 seconds then stalls.. iv been thew the hole wireing harness looking for fuilts have not come across any... i know the bus net work is live i can see it on my volt meter down to useing my mitches to better understand the skimm and bus net work, i have realized that trucks that do not have the skimm module can have the same bus network fault and still run, thats kinda where im at with it... but i know for fact that the s***** *****ght will not work with ether cluster, is there any way to program the truck to icnore the skimm module? or any more test i could do to insure my problems are in those circuits?
Expert:  Juan Crespo replied 1 year ago.

The anti-theft system is built into the powertrain control scheme and cannot be disconnected nor bypassed by normal methods.

Everytime a major control module such as the BCM, instrument cluster or PCM is replaced, its replacement must be programmed to the vehicle. Please do that first (or have it done at your local Dodge dealer) and then we'll take it from there if necessary.

Please let me know how it all works out.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
u really didnt answer anything for me... can u confirm bcm location ...
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
i changed the fcm module back to the one from the truck no s***** *****ght truck will start and fire for 2 seconds... even with improper programming the skimm should light up and lock into theft mode... i worked on my painters truck witch is 05 2500 5.7 and he had bad conection by the pcm but we changed cluster and the fcm and the skimm was still lite and stayed solid... turned out to be a connection fixed it light worked normaly and truck start and ran.. i have done 24 valve conversions and that light has always operated for me... im not convinced its a programming problem, can the skimm module its self have shorted out?
Expert:  Juan Crespo replied 1 year ago.

You seem to know it all, so I can't certainly help you. I'll opt out so others may try. Do not reply until another expert responds or the site will revert this request back to me.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
is there any way to have the skimm system removed with the programeing?