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DaveTheCarGuy
DaveTheCarGuy, Car Enthusiast
Category: UK Car
Satisfied Customers: 183
Experience:  AAS in Automotive Technology.
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mini: main request is as stated above. I try to be more

Customer Question

main request is as stated above. I try to be more specific: After removing complete engine and wiring loom from the above car the engine won't start. "Startfreigabe" missing. Some diagnose tools available. Original key switch, steering lock and clutch sensor are installed.Whole dashboard iS INSTALLED. Some person understanding the logic of Bosch EDC17 and the BMW Mini CAN bus system would be very good. I am happy to give any further details if required. XXXXXX. regards Bernd

Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: UK Car
Expert:  Walt-mod replied 10 months ago.
Hi,

I'm a moderator for this topic. I've been working hard to find a Professional to assist you right away, but sometimes finding the right professional can take a little longer than expected.

I wonder whether you're ok with continuing to wait for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will continue my search. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you.

Thank you!
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

hi, if you see a chance for an answer I am happy to wait. Please keep me a little updated and please try to communicate with your "main system" so that this time no one will process my refund unless you give up.


looking forward to your response, regards Bernd

Expert:  Walt-mod replied 10 months ago.
Thank you for your continued patience. We will continue the search for a professional for you
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

good, please keep me updated, regards Bernd

Expert:  DaveTheCarGuy replied 10 months ago.

Hello,

 

My name is Dave and I will try and help you with this one. The way the BMW security system works is it generates a "random" code and uses it to run and secure the system. What it does with this code is the neat part. Upon engine start attempt, the security module(EWS) reads the code from the key, The security module then sends the code to the DME and at that point, the DME will allow the car to start. At this point, the DME sends a new "random" code to the security module which then sends the new code to the key, allowing the process to happen again at the next start-up.

 

Sometimes the codes loose sync between the security module and the DME. This also happens if you swap to a new DME when you swap your engine. This can be remedied with a BMW scan tool by running a re-sync procedure, its usually called "DME Alignment/Syncing". I would start with that to solve your issue.

 

Thanks,

Dave

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

hi Dave,


tried that. I had the unit at a BMW dealer service and found a helpful man there. Problem was that "... the communication with The DDE (DME for diesel by Bosch) was not possible."


Or as the service guy said: the DDE would not talk to him. Reason for that is not clear. So no re-sync procedure was possible. Any idea how to solve that?


regards Bernd

Expert:  DaveTheCarGuy replied 10 months ago.
Hi Bernd,

Do you have a second DME to test with? Sadly there seems to be many failures with these DME units that BMW uses. Most people are able to find a burned component or broken solder joint with a visual inspection to the circuit board of the DME.

Dave
Customer: replied 10 months ago.

hi again Dave. no I do not have that available. The likeliness of such failure is not high as the unit is from a new car, done 50km. And this is from Bosch, as far as I know not bad quality.


However, we will check the unit for such faults as far as visible. Do you have any idea what else could lead to such fault?


regards Bernd

Expert:  DaveTheCarGuy replied 10 months ago.
Your saying the computer is new, is it the one original to this car, or from another one? I ask because there are several very similar DMEs that have slightly different hardware. If its not original to the vehicle, let me know the part # XXXXX it so we can verify it is one thats compatible with your 2011 mini.

Thanks,
Dave
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
yes, new and original. As mentioned Bosch (Not sure if this makes a difference, but this is a diesel, so DDE.). I have given the VIN number and that should identify the 10 digit Bosch number as well.In case you still need the 10 digit Bosch number let me know, please. cheers

 

Expert:  DaveTheCarGuy replied 10 months ago.
Well, I'm sorry to say that this is past my level of expertise. I will OPT Out of your question so another expert can help you.

Please do not reply as it would re-lock you to me. Good luck with your Issue!


Thanks,
Dave
DaveTheCarGuy, Car Enthusiast
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 183
Experience: AAS in Automotive Technology.
DaveTheCarGuy and 16 other Car Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Mike replied 10 months ago.
Hello and Welcome to justanswer..

My name isXXXXX happy to help you ..

Please tell me first - what was the initial reason for removing the engine / wiring looms etc?

Too - how long has the car been "off road" - dismantled - ?

Rgds, MIKE...................................

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

hi, reason is that the engine shall be installed in a boat. The car was written off on its first 50km by rolling it. It is now about 1 year off the road, but I have had it after about 3 months back under power and repeatedly powered it up since then. You reckon the built in memory back up failed?

Expert:  Mike replied 10 months ago.
Hello again - Thank you for your reply and further info..

First my apologies that I could only just get back to you now..

Thats is all very helpful - and espeically the time that its been off the road ...out of use.

So again yes that is highly likely to be your problem so long as all your wiring is ok - as you say -and that needs to be followed up on now, the EDC17 system is "very good" at losing its settings in these circumstances so yes, from all that you have said, that is what needs investigating now - there is every chance thats what will get this sorted for you .. ( you guessed, thats what I asked ;) Of course to do the reprogramming, you will need to find and use someone with the proper OBD equipment local to you . Mobile Auto locksmiths are often a good bet for that .... and they can come to you.

Best Rgds, MIKE.

Let me know if you need anything more on this at all -

Please do click on the OK rating to Excellent ratings service for me now, Thank you for that... and you can get back to me anytime if you need / wish..

Best Rgds, MIKE.


Please note, you are rating the content of my "answer" - my help to you - not the "system" which can experience delays etc which are not under my personal control -or delays caused by "time -off" which we all have on occasion - Thank you.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.

hi, as stated earlier what I want is a wiring diagram, in order to find the possible fault. I will check additionally any possible power failure but would appreciate if you could find the diagram in the meantime.

regards Bernd

 

hi, have been talking to the BMW dealer to get the minimum Voltage needed by the EDC. But they stated that this is not my fault. Reason: it would be identified by their system, and it was not.

So I am back with my problem: engine won't start. Communication with EDC is not possible for unknown reason, but the onboard diagnose system BMW does not identify the cause!

please respond asap, regards

Expert:  Mike replied 9 months ago.
Hello again -

Thank you for your reply.

I have re read what you have written above - and don't see anywhere where you requested a wiring diagram - as per you saying, "as stated earlier what I want is a wiring diagram..."
In any event I do not have that info to hand but if you click on this link HERE - you can get them there.

Please bear in mind that what I have outlined to you above still stands - I know the Bosch system very well and suggest you follow through on that as the info I have provided you is accurate and in good faith in a bid to help you per your original question.

Very best rgds, MIKE

.................Please click on the OK/ Excellent ratings for me at this point as that is how Im credited for helping you - Thank you in advance for that...


You can and are most welcome to get back to me anytime you might need - clicking the OK ratings does not close you out at all..

Rgds, MIKE.
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

hi Mike,I do not understand why the original question to the system is now hidden, it was my first request...here it is copied:"I need a complete wiring diagram for a (BMW) Mini One D , Motor N47N R56LCI Bj.11/ 2011 1598ccm 66KW VIN : WMWSW 11020 T177818"


I tried on your link provided but I do not have a wiring diagram yet. What I receives was a silly membership in a "crankplay". But still I could not access the wiring diagram that was offered by their web page earlier. A general description of the function as available by BMW directly was all I got.


However back to the fault: please read my edited response to your last answer: "hi, have been talking to the BMW dealer to get the minimum Voltage needed by the EDC. But they stated that this is not my fault. Reason: it would be identified by their system, and it was not"


But I would be happy to measure myself the voltage in the EDC to check it out. But for that I would need accurate minimum voltage parameters. Can you give that to me? Or tell me how to find out that the voltage is too low?


appreciating your accurate answer, regards Bernd

Expert:  Mike replied 9 months ago.

Hello again..

Im sorry - I dont know why your question was part hidden...

I assume thats why you have left me a negative rating - but Im afraid I have no control over that myself. Plus, because you did that - it caused this delay now - I have just happened across your question again now - your giving me the neg rating closed it to me. You clicked on OK rating for an expert that didn't give you any help at all !

Im not sure now then in view of that rating whether you still want my help or not.

Ive tried to be helpful to you and would be happy to be but Im not sure what you want with that now.

Best Rgds, MIKE.

Customer: replied 9 months ago.
Relist: Answer quality.
I want a new and different Expert
Expert:  Rachel-Mod replied 9 months ago.
Hi, I’m a moderator for this topic and I wonder whether you’re still waiting for an answer. If you are, please let me know and I will do my best to find another Professional to assist you right away. If not, feel free to let me know and I will cancel this question for you. Thank you!
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

hi, yes I have no solution so far and would be happy to get an answer!


regards

Expert:  Rachel-Mod replied 9 months ago.

Hello,

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX continue to look for a professional to assist you. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance while you wait.

Best,

Rachel

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.

Welcome to justanswer.com. My name is XXXXX XXXXX online automotive technician. I am reading your comments. I will be right with you. Thank You, Leon

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.
I am going to check on a couple of things and make some calls for you. Would this be OK with you?

Kind Regards,

Leon
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

hi Leon,


of course,if you see a realistic chance for a solution I am keen on your help! regards Bernd

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.
I had a computer go out. Computer is taking its time backing up. Did not plan on being this long. If you would mine to wait would be nice, but if you prefer for me to send you back to the list I would understand, please let me know either way.
I expect late afternoon today, i am on central time.

Kind Regards,

Leon
Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.

Mr. Bernd, I hope this diagram will help you with your transfer to the boat. If you need more info please ask.
Thank you for waiting for me. Computer at 100 percent now.

 



Please let me know if you have further questions. Please do not forget to click a positive rating as this is the only way I receive credit for my answer. Bonuses and Feedback are Appreciated, Thank you. Best wishes with your repairs.
Leon Davidian, Sr. ( Master Tech Leon ). graphic

Customer: replied 9 months ago.

hi, that is a start. But as stated earlier I have a diesel. Here again:


Mini One D Motor N47N R56LCI Bj.11/ 2011 1598ccm 66KW


VIN : WMWSW 11020 T177818. And a complete wiring diagram for this would be what we need in order to find the reason for engine not starting. When the unit is connected to a onboard diagnose system from BMW it won't communicate with the Bosch EDC 17. Reason unknown, matbe related to theft control.

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.
I am looking into this for you.
Question all the sensors and computor hooked up as if it were in the car?
Customer: replied 9 months ago.

all sensors and stuff I considered relevant. Through the BMW system discription I had learned that the steering column lock is important as well so that is now installed as well.


Installed : engine complete with all equipment like exhaust with lambda sensor, particle filter, air mass sensor , original fuel pump and filter, original start button with key, dpeedometer and rev counter and radio, and original wiring loom. Bosch EDC, CAS, original ABS controller.


Not installed: gearbox. Brakes, small shit like lights etc.


Hope that helps, regards Bernd

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 9 months ago.
thank you, going to make some calls and I will get back to you.

Leon
Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 8 months ago.
I am still waiting to hear back from a few people. This is the first time I have ever come across some on using a car computed engine for marine. I have been told it will be hard unless you have a computer that will match the application you are using for marine. A generic one where you can program. Without ABS signal computer is going to have a hard time adjusting to higher RPMS. Do you have the neutral safety switch installed as well?
I am working on this for you. And if you would like I can send your question to the board to see if another expert has knowledge.

Please let me know?


Leon


Customer: replied 8 months ago.

sorry for the delay in my answer. I am still keen as nothing solved so far and I have put too much into it to stop here.


Send to the board if that helps. I would ask the Pope if he had a glue but I reckon he does not.


Yes, it will be a hard one but I had reasons to choose that engine. And yes, I want to use later on an additional computer to reproduce the original messages from all components.


But it should be starting!!! Before it starts I can't read out other signals. ABS computer connected. But should start without by my knowledge. What is the "Neutral safety switch"?


I hope that it does not cause confusion that I asked for a refund. But I am happy to pay my fee if there is a result, just have to make sure nothing expires here...


Have a nice day, thanks for your help, Bernd

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 8 months ago.
You have a Great Sense of Humor!! About the Pope.

I clearly understand and I will not be offended if you ask for refund. I am sorry I do not have a good answer for you.
Yes, it should fire up. Concerns though for the anti-theft and the neutral safety switch is a device which when the car is in gear - will not allow ignition - for that matter start up.
Will the boat be in salt water or fresh? Just curious. I am sure you took measures to the cooling system of a car engine will not hold up to these environments.
And is the boat an inboard out board? SternDrive?

This morning I am suppose to hear from the V12 engineering company. So hold on just a little longer. I am anxious to hear what they come up with.

Cheers,

Leon
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

thanks for accepting my humor. The neutral: this car is not monitoring neutral. It is monitoring the clutch. And the original clutch sensor is installed. But I do not remember how we made sure that it feels like "clutch pressed". Will check that.


Cooling no problem. For now the engine is installed in a test bench, with car cooler and all goodies.


If you had an email I could mail some pics.


However, do not forget that for whatever reason the communication with Bosch EDC seems to be impossible. No mains power on it and no communication with diagnose tool. All wiring checked, no fault. And remember all that crap is new. No rusty connectors here.


Have a nice evening or day, regards Bernd

Expert:  Master Tech Lee replied 8 months ago.
12 V called me, but I was not home to take calls. Sorry I did not get back to you the same day. Had a Family death to deal with.

Will be in touch with you this Saturday.

Regards Leon
Customer: replied 8 months ago.

great, looking forward to that. My wife's father dies some weeks ago which is the reason for her being with her family at this moment. And I am searching for the stuff in the kitchen.


Have a nice day,


Bernd

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