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Tim Nolan
Tim Nolan, TV Repair Technician
Category: TV
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Experience:  Factory trained TV repair technician. U.S. NAVY trained.
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Insignia NS-PDP42. stand-by light red. turn set on,stand by

Customer Question

Insignia NS-PDP42. stand-by light red. turn set on,stand by light turns green, relay clicks, blinks twice, and goes back to red with relay click. No light flash on screen, no other sign of life. Process will repeat with and without disconnecting power cord in between tries. All fuses good

Insignia Prod Code 42PC3DD
Chassis PA73E

Internally - LG PDP42x 40523
PS Board is LGE P/N EAY328

Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: TV
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Thank you for posting your question on Just Answer! I will be happy to help you with this problem.

I am sorry for the delay, do you still need assistance with this?

Please let me know.

Thank you,
Tim Nolan
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Yes, I just posted the issue yesterday, and would still like assistance. I did some additional troubleshooting that I can add as well.

 

I tried disconnecting the YSUS board, and then turning on power. The power stayed on (still no picture). However, when checking the 5V, V-A and V-S levels on the PS board with a VOM, the results were all off. When I reconnect the YSUS and try power again, the unit shuts itself off again.

 

In addition, I looked closely based on some recommendations, and found that 4 or 5 of the capacitors on the PS board may have some domeing.

 

 

Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
WHen you say the levels were all wrong, what were you getting?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

V-A and V-S were very low, like a few volts. I don't have my data with me right now, but I thought one of them was supposed to be ~190 V. On the 250V VOM meter range, the needle barely moved on both. I was not sure if this was because of a load difference with the YSUS board disconnected however.

 

Also, the 5V reading was very high, like 10 volts or higher (needle past 10 V on the 10V range).

Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
What were you using as ground?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
chassis points. Is there a best/preferred location?
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
I normally use the metal on the back of the panel.

Did you check the voltage on the pins when the ysus is hooked up?

Tim

Customer: replied 3 years ago.

I can try readings using the back of the panel tonight, or all the way back to the ac input ground.

 

Yes, when YSUS was connected, the voltages would come up a few volts only before the power supply kicked off, and voltage dropped back to 0.

Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Ok check those voltage again.

Also try taking the upper and lower y buffers out one at a time while the y sus is plugged in to see if the tv stays on with either one of them out of the set.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Do you have a service manual or excerpt that shows where to do that, i.e. which connectors? I'm not looking at the unit right now.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Which connecors for what? I want you to physically remove the upper and lower y buffers completely from the tv one at a time....

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay, I'll let you know what that does.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Ok sounds good.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Disconnecting the Y drive board has no noticeable effect. If the Ysus is connected at powerup, the ps board resets quickly as described in the beginning. If I reconnect theYsus after power is supplied, I hear a fan noise on the Ysus, and voltages are similar to th PS board. The 5v is at 11v, but VA and VS are at 0 after an initial spike to 135v for VA, and spike of 450v for VS.

I also checked readings at connectors p800, 801, and 803. All voltages are basically doubled. 12v reading is 27, 6v reading is 14, 3.4 v reading is 7.4, and 19 v reading is 43v.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
450? what kind of meter are you using?

TIm
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Using an analog VOM. Ihad to use the 1000 volt scale to read that one,
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
DC or AC?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I checked them all as AC.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
These are DC voltages.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay, I'll recheck them on DC settings
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Ok let me know.
Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Okay, after rechecking with the Vdc setting, I find that the 5v is still good, and the readings for VS and VA are more like expected. With the Ysus board disconnected, VA comes up to 70 Vdc (and stabilizes briefly) before falling quickly to abt 1v. VS comes up to about 205 Vdc, continuously rising to 205 before rapidly dropping off to abt 2 Vdc. It never stabilizes at any voltage level. As before, if the Ysus is connected, the voltages never rise, and the tv returns to standby within about 2seconds of hitting the power. Disconnecting or disconnecting the Ybuffer or Y drive makes no difference. Being a rigid board, I can't disconnect the top and bottom individually.

The other voltages I checked on p800, 801 and 803, such as the 3.4, 6, 12, 19 voltages are reading as expected using dc settings on the meter.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
It seems like you have a bad Y sustain board then. I would replace it at this point.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

How likely is a new Ysus going to fix the issue (90%, 50%) and restore full functionality? Just looking for your best guess, not a guarantee. This is a ~$75 replacement for parts only (used/ refurbished!), not counting tax, shipping, and labor, and it's still basically a 4 year old TV (not even a new Ysus) when a new unit in this size is down to ~$400.

 

I also never heard if the slight "doming" of electrolytic capacitors on the power supply board is normal (especially based on output voltages) or if it's a possible concern.

Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
I would say from the info you have gathered I am 99% sure.

I am sorry, I don't think I ever saw where you said there was doming of the caps...you have caps that are domed?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes, I believe so. On the power supply board only. Very mild though in my untrained opinion.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Can you get me a picture of them?(if you can post a picture, please click the icon above, where you are typing, of the paper clip. This will allow you to upload a picture)


Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Attached are some pictures of the caps on the ps board. Only 4 have indications of doming.

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Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Those are 100% bad and should be replaced before going any further or doing anything else.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.

Is there any benefit to installing a de-rated cap (rated for a higher working voltage from what I understand). The 5 bad ones are rated at 10V. So, in other words, would it be the wise thing to do to replace them with the next higher voltage, but all other specs the same (3300 uF, 105 degC rating, very low impedance, high ripple current)?

 

Separately, various forums have indicated there are known issues with bad caps from Samha in the early-mid 2000's timeframe, which is the heritage of these (WB series). I will be replacing them with valid substitutes from another mfg, such as Nichicon (closest spec match I found so far). It might be enough to just replace the bad ones, with new ones from a better source/mfgr, but at the same specifications.

Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Yes we always use a higher voltage cap.

Yes there is a good chance that replacing the caps like you plan will give you a working tv again.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Replaced 5 domed caps on ps board, and put in replacement Ysus. Power stays on now with all things connected, but still no picture. I get audio, but no picture from any video input, or from the tv menu. VS and VA act as described earlier when the old Ysus was disconnected. The VS appears to rise too high, perhaps forcing a shutdown to protect the system? As before, VS rises to about 205 Vdc before dropping off. The max voltage setting on the internal label is 190.

Also, VS and VA never rise at the connector from the Ysus to the Zsus, seeming to indicate there may be a problem with voltage pass through on the "new" Ysus. Voltage in is as described from the ps board, but nothing on the VS to the Zsus, or VS input at the Zsus.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Why did you replace the Y sus? Do you still have the old one?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I thought that was part of the problem. Yes, I still have original. Put old one back and retest?
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Yes please.

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Reinstalled original Ysus, and original problem returns. Power relays click, but tv returns to standby within 2 seconds and power shuts off. No readings of any transient voltage spikes on VA or VS.

Replaced Ysus with the refurb unit from before after replacing 4a fuses. With new Ysus, power now comes on and stays on, and voltages stabilize near spec values for VS and VA.

BUTTTT......., still no picture.

Zsus board now has voltage, which I did not write down, but about 50 Vdc on Zbias. Also checked voltage on the Ydrive board at the test point marked "waveform" and got about 70 Vdc.

What next? I read somewhere that with a new Ysus or Zsus that some adjustment may need to be made on the precise voltage settings, or other adjustments.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
Are the heat sinks warm on both the y sus and z sus?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Nope, both cool. Should I wait for a minimum length of time before checking, or should they warm up right away?
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
They usually take a few mins, how long did you wait before checking?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Probably not that long. I will also make sure I'm sending it a video feed, and check after a few minutes.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Probably not that long. I will also make sure I'm sending it a video feed, and check after a few minutes.

After 30 minutes or more, they are cool or room temp only.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
You said you replaced all the 4a fuses, were any of them open?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
No, they all registered a resistance on the meter, both in-circuit, and once removed. Being porcelain style, I could not tell visually if any were blown or degraded.
Expert:  Tim Nolan replied 3 years ago.
What was the resistance?

Tim
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Actually, going back I did find one of them was blown and read as open. The good ones read as about 25-30 ohms. Unfortunately I don't remember where I pulled the bad one from.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Any more ideas based on the resistance of the good fuses? Other areas to test? Still no picture.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Relist: Other.
Answers incomplete and took too long.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Great service. I love that my questioned was closed with unanswered questions and the problem unresolved, but the "expert" considers it closed. Really? When I try to repost to get an answer it's considered a duplicate. Nice work. Fool me once....

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Tim Nolan
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Factory trained TV repair technician. U.S. NAVY trained.