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Greg
Greg, Technician
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Experience:  17 years Shop Owner /Technician. 27 years experience
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What could be done to a toyota verso 2005 that is jumping

Customer Question

What could be done to a toyota verso 2005 that is jumping out of gear to correct the problem? The transmission is mmt.
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Transmissions
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Posted by JustAnswer at customer's request) Hello. I would like to request the following Expert Service(s) from you: Help via Email or Text Message + Provide Diagrams, Manuals, or Instructions + Live Phone Call. Let me know if you need more information, or send me the service offer(s) so we can proceed.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Which gears is it jumping out of 1 and 3 and maybe 5 also .

Or the 2,4 gears .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
It jumps out from 1 sometimes 2 sometimes 3 sometimes 4 sometimes 5 but mostly 1 and 2.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Most times, it does'nt drive up to 3 and 4,
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay now when does it jump out of gear when you let of the gas (Decelerate)

What have you checked up to now .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Sometimes, it drives like it has no problem but it does,nt last. Formally, it drives for a longer time but after the clutch was changed, it became worse.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Does it jump out only when decelerating .

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
No, it does when accelerating.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay good that's what i wanted to hear ,

Check the engine mounts front and rear ,when the engine rocks when accelerating it knocks the gears out .

mostly 1 3 and 5 .

Need further assistance then please get back to me with the reply box below if needed.

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok Greg, I will get back to you later today due to the time difference. Right now, I am in my house about to sleep because the time here is 12:21am. I will check the engine mounts front and rear as you advice and feed you back. Thanks.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay sounds good have a good night .

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
The engine does not rock at all. I have even gone as far as sitting on top of the engine while another person drives to check the operation. I realised that it just jumps out when it feels and when it does, you will hear a noise between the engine and gear box and I feel the noise comes from the clutch moon and disc.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay .

Thank you that info is good , as now this is pointing towards your syncro rings in the transmission .

If you are driving along and have the gear in 3rd and you hold the stick in 3rd, will it still try to force itself out of gear or stay in

without you feeling it trying to jump out .

Is the new clutch slipping , any noise when you push down and up the clutch peddle..

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Oh Greg, I am so sorry you did not understand I was talking about MMT Multi Mode Transmission gearbox and not a full manual gearbox. Sorry for the mix up.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I still hope you could help me out with this.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Hi .

Okay lol good .

Was this done at a Toyota Dealership .

Greg

Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Another question is the MMT warning light ON .

This system was not a good one and has this problem you have is well known ,first overheating then clutch slip

after replacement gears jump to Neutral .

This can be due to bad clutch installation and in some case the management system needs reprogramming .

Also TSB for bad clutch actuator also causing gear slip to neutral ..

If the MMT warning light is on then have the system checked for malfunction codes , the codes will put you on ther right track to where your problem is .

Check for codes then please get back to me with the reply box below .

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
It was not done at a toyota dealership. Please, what is TSB. There is no code. The round red warning light comes on when it slips from gear and then when you check for codes, you won't find any. I did the manual programming before and after installation. Without this, the gear wont work at all. Except the the programming was not well done.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Okay technical service bulletin.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
or is it something else but this is by the way. What do you suggest I do?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
The light is not ON permanently. It comes ON when it slips and goes when you turn OFF ignition for few seconds.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hi Greg, I forgot to mention that the reason for changing the clutch is the same sliping problem but now it is worse. Formaly, it takes time to slip, like you could drive for hours without sliping, but now you can't even go for a minute before it slips.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Actually, what was changed is just the clutch plate and nothing else.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Is it possible to convert this MMT to full manual? I mean changing the gearbox entirely to manual transmission since this problem is likely to comeback even if it was finally fixed. From the threads that I read in toyota forum, I am not sure if anything could be done to get rid of this problem permanently.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Please, Greg, this is what I saw in the thread, I don't know if you know about this and if it really works.(If anyone still has problems with MMT gearbox my 9 year old Yaris is working after I loosened the three 12mm bolts in slotted holes on the top of the clutch actuator, pushed the actuator to rotate it anticlockwise and retightened the bolts WHILE pushing. That fixed the problem. I tried this after reading that the clutch required preload, the opposite)
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I am really bent on fixing the car before the end of this week for that is my agreement with the owner. I really appreciate your speedy responce, I am looking forward to finish this work with you. Thanks Greg.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay thanks sorry missed you went out to eat.

Okayt you will need to visit a Toyota Dealership ,they have the correct scan tool and software to check for code s.

Many GST tool will not gather MMT codes .

The problem you have is very common and to be honest i big deal to sort out ,even after reprogramming / reflashing the system

the problem always seems to come back to haunt you.

After the clutch was repaired and having the same problem shows you have a internal issue or a program problem .

As long as the warning light comes on then as you know you will have codes ,the tool you are using is not collecting codes or you have a management problem ??

But just checking though my Toyota data for this issue i would take a look at the Clutch actuator as said earlier ,

If you have this replaced it also has to be reprogrammed .

Take a look at this TSB may be of great help .

Attached

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Could the car be converted to manual? If yes, the owner is ready to do just that and get rid of the MMT.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
If yes, what is the procudure?
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Could be done but still would need to change the wiring harness and ECM to cut out the MMT system .

Could cost a fortune , best is to have this sorted out best you can and sell, make a loss on this car would be cheaper than the conversion .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Greg I think that it will be better to convert. The used manual gear is not that expensive in our market here. The only problem I will have is the wiring system. I have checked for it in my alldata and the car is not there. I know that what I will need to change is only the transmission wiring system, this is what I think. I dont know if it is more than what I thought.
Could you please shed more light on what and what I will need to do, please could you be more ellaborate?
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Your best bet is to find a donor car from an accident ,this would be far cheaper .then all you do is swap over parts

but finding one in Nigeria could be a bit of a problem ??

Its not that easy like in the older less complicated cars where one could adapted just about any transmission to an engine.

nowadays the engine transmission is managed by computer and has its own programming to run its systems .

No Dona car , you will need to first the ECM /PCM TCM depending on the system this has .

wiring harness ,if all these are bought from a dealer then this is going to become very expensive OR have a good wiring diagram for the two cars and a very good electrician rewire from the diagrams.

ECM going to cost 300 us plus ,then the reprogramming another 100us ,

labour involved in doing this is not going to be a few days

Pedal set 100 - 200 us ,cluster to work with the ECM ,as the one now fitted for the MMT will not work with out rewiring the cluster.

list can go on and on .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Thanks so much Greg.At this point, the best thing would be to try and fix it. I will look for the clutch actuator and the clutch moon and disc and replace them, reprogram it and see what happens. Once I am done with this, I will get back to you so that you can get your rating.I will not hesitate to communicate you as I do it, to let you know how it is going.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Hi .

Depending on the time needed the question will close so best to rate now and the question stays open as long as you want it .

After accepting there is no extra payment needed to get back to me unles you want to add a bonus .

Take good note of the TSB i sent ..

MPORTANT: Before removing an MMT gearbox for a clutch replacement you must first set the clutch actuator to the ‘clutch clamp’ position. Failure to carry out this operation is likely to cause the clutch actuator to be in the incorrect position on reassembly of the gearbox. This could result in a multitude of problems such as clutch slippage, harsh and delayed engagement, or no clutch operation at all which would prevent the selecting of any gears and possible damage to the clutch actuator.

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Greg please, why don't we finish with this so that I will be able to know the rating I will give you. I hope to round up before Saturday hopefully, except I am unable to get the clutch actuator before then.Thanks.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

No problem this is up to you when you rate, as you can see from the TBS the job was most likely not carried out

correctly as outlined with the TSB .. in the first place this is why there is a lot of complications

Follow the TSB and it should be good to go .

Not much more i can do to help you with this and with me not being there .

Just follow the TSB best you can .

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hi Greg, pls don't forget that the TBS you sent to me , I already used even before you sent it. If you go through my conversation with you, you will find out that I told you that without the programming, the car won't drive.Now I tried to reprogram it all over again but it failed to show the gear position this time and could not drive again. I diagnosed it and it gave me these dtc's P0808,0907,0917.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay good, i will get beck to you .

Did you clear all codes before starting this program ??

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I am yet to clear them. I will now clear them and try reprogramming again. I will get back to as soon as I am done bcs right now, I am at the workshop.
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have cleared the codes and tried to reprogram but still the gear position indicator is not coming ON and the car cannot raise nor drive.Right now I don't know what to do to call back the gear position indicator. No gear position sign on the instrument cluster at all.Greg, where do we go from here?
Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hi Greg,I am banking on you. I am waiting to hear from you.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

When you have the car in normal mode .like driving with oyut putting using the jump wire will the gear position lights work .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hi Greg, I don't seem to get your question. But it has never raised nor driven without the gear light being ON. Once the gear light is not ON, The gear will never engage.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

If the manual procedure is not working then you will have to use the Diagnostic tool .

First code have to be read then cleared then the set up done .

Like a said if the clutch was replaced without performing the clamp position adjustment.

Then this is in need of the diagnostic scan tool .

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok Greg, I use Autel DS708. I will look out for someone that has techstream which is toyota scan tool and see if we could achieve anything. Meanwhile, I did the clutch clamp position adjustment but the gear did not hang IN in '-'. which was what happenned the first time I did it. I will get back to you as soon as I find one and I am going out tomorrow for it. Thanks and good nite.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

You could not get any codes with the 708 ??

And set up for the Clutch replacement ??

Are you up to date with the 708 .

You may have to up grade to the 908 pro .

Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have already given you the codes I got with the 708 but the programming is not supported for the vehicle. I updated my 708 in october 2015. The 908 is quite expensive, moreover we don't have a good system of trading IN in Nigeria. Infact trading in does not work here.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

So sorry i did not see the codes ,don't know how that got past me.

Here is the check sheet for you to check .

The codes are on page 11 and 12 .

Rgds Greg

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Hi Greg, sorry I have not communicted you for a few days. The owner had to tow his car out of my workshop on Sarturday. He ran out of patience.
Expert:  Greg replied 10 months ago.

Okay i understand .

Greg