The engine light came on. Took vehicle to dealer. Have been told the engine actuator is the problem. They are recommending replacing oil control valve because it will be far less expensive than the $5,000 it costs to replace the engine actuator. Does this sound correct?
Model: Sienna XLE AWD Minivan
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Do you have the P Code numbers they used to diagnosis this? Can you call the dealer and get them?
I think it was p2005. Does that sound right
Sorry that is not a good number. Can you call the dealer? HAs there been any engine work done recently?
The dealer states that the number was 0025. They are replacing the bank 2 oil control valve. No recent engine work has been done.
Are they going to cover this under warranty for you?
Not that I know of, but I can ask. If not, I need to know the answers to several questions:
1. Is $5,000 sound accurate for replacing an actuator?
2. Will replacing the "bank 2 oil control valve" fix the issue, or just put a patch on a bigger problem that will resurface later?
3. Is a failing actuator a common problem for these Toyota engines?
Unfortunately this is an ongoing problem with this particular vehicle and engine. There are two technical service bulletins to address this issue. The first one is:
T-SB-0105-11 the second one is: T-SB-0094-09 if you Google these numbers you can find a copy of these technical service bulletins online. This is not a recall this was just a bulletin to let the technicians in the field know what was going on with these problems. Unfortunately if you have to pay for this it could very easily reach $5000. This Is a very expensive and time consuming job to replace the actuators and potentially camshaft depending on how much damage there is. My recommendation to you would be to press Toyota for some assistance on this repair. We did a lot of these under warranty. Putting just a bank two control valve or OCV probably will not solve this problem.
The service manager assigned to the vehicle is now stating that he doesn't think that this is really an actuator problem. Otherwise we would have noticed a very loud rattling noise before the engine light signaled us that there was trouble. He mentioned the actuator as a possibility. He thinks that this is really an OCV problem and that replacing it should resolve the issue. He said that these valves are extremely sensitive, and that even a piece of debris as fine as a human hair can cause malfunction. This seems like a slight change of position on his part, unless the original message was misunderstood.
Regardless, does all of this sound plausible to you?
He also said that replacing the OCV will not hide or cover up an actuator problem. If the actuator needs replaced we'll know in the first week. Does this sound accurate?
And OCV or oil control valve which is basically a duty cycle solenoid valve that allows oil pressure to activate on either side of the actuator inside the cylinder head can cause problems however they rarely fail on this vehicle most of the damage is done because of the actuators on the camshaft themselves. I'm all for trying something inexpensive. However if the oil control valve or OCV does not repair the problem are they still charging you for the part the time and your hassle? Personally I think that is throwing parts at a car and not diagnosing it correctly. If this P0025 code sets consistently you can definitively diagnosis with the proper steps and techniques. He may not have someone qualified enough to do this. These engines will not always make noise. If this was ever idling rough when the check engine light came on it is not an OCV. The idling rough is because the valve timing is sticking and not returning to its base timing due to the actuator malfunctioning.
Thank you for your recent patience. I'd like to get you up to speed and get one last opinion before I sign off. Last Wednesday night I picked up the van after the OCV was replaced. I confirmed that the code was P0025 and was told that this code comes up for many varied reasons including running out of gas, loose gas cap, etc. I was also told that if the engine light does not come on after a week's worth of driving, then the actuator will not likely need to be replaced, and everything was addressed with the OCV replacement.
and was told that this code comes up for many varied reasons including running out of gas, loose gas cap, etc.
The fact that the service writer or any technician told you that it would come on because a loose gas cap is just trying to pacify you. This P0025 code will only come on because the computer has detected that the exhaust camshaft was not within specifications of about 5° when commanded to do so. Granted it is possible that the OCV could've been sticking. However from experience that I have seen it normally means that the actuator is the problem not the OCV. They are replacing the OCV because it is the cheapest and easiest thing to try. If they're not willing to look further and take care of the actuator problem under warranty this is just a limited attempt at fixing the car. This may take a while for it come back sometimes oil changes can even affect how bad the actuator sticks. Time will tell. I would just suggest that if the code comes back they reimburse you the money for the OCV and the misdiagnoses. It is unlikely that the speed bumps cause any type of problem with this code.
Below is the actual setting criteria that the Toyota manual specifies for in order for this code to set.
Retarded cam timing:
With warm engine and engine speed of between 500 rpm and 4,000 rpm, all conditions (a), (b) and (c) are met
(1 trip detection logic):
(a) Difference between target and actual exhaust valve timing is more than 5°CA (Crankshaft Angle) for 4.5 seconds
(b) Current exhaust valve timing is fixed (timing changes less than 5°CA in 5 seconds)
(c) Variations in VVT controller timing are more than 19°CA or less of maximum delayed timing (retarded)
Toyota Master Diagnostic
Is there any way that this code P0025 could have come on if only the OCV wasn't working properly, but the actuators were fine?
The only way this could happen is if the solenoid valve in the OCV was stuck in a specific point to meet the criteria of the degrees the exhaust cam would have been stationary. In other words it is virtually impossible to have the OCV set this code. If you remove the OCV and it looks clean and functions normally it's highly unlikely that it's stuck. You could always swap the OCV from bank one and bank two and see if it sets the code for the opposite bank. If it continues to set for the same bank then you know is not the OCV.
OK. So here is my situation. I have a 2008 Sienna XLE AWD with 95,000 miles on it. I have an 84 month/100,000 mile extended warranty. The engine light came on. The Toyota dealership in Lancaster, PA found a P0025 code. After examining the vehicle, the service tech is saying that the OCV valve was clearly not working. The OCV valve was replaced. The service dept. is saying that they'd love nothing more than to be paid by the warranty company to replace the actuators, but they don't think they need to be replaced. The van has been driven approximately 2 to 3,000 miles since the OCV was replaced, with no return of the engine light. I also have heard no loud noise from the engine on start up. The service dept. continues to say that I would hear this noise if the actuators are bad. You seem to disagree with several of their assertions.
I disagreed with some of the generic information that they gave you. If they gave you concrete information about the OCV being definitely bad and then replaced it and it has not come back it is possible that if the OCV was stuck in a certain position that you could get excessive noise from the actuator. I just know that Toyota has had a lot of issues with these early production actuators on this Van. There are multiple service bulletins dealing with this problem. Unfortunately you are kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. When you're dealing with an extended warranty company they will not replace anything unless it is confirmed bad or they send an inspector out to even check the part once it is removed or inspect the engine to confirm the noise if it happens. If it becomes an intermittent thing it is very difficult to get an extended warranty company to cover anything. Toyota Extra Care is one of the better policies out there. I would just pay very close attention to any noise on start up over the next 4000 miles to give yourself a little cushion to have this repaired if it becomes a problem down the road.