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Amedee
Amedee, Toyota Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 21869
Experience:  ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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1990 toyota: the engine spits and sputters, and if i...it..peddle

Customer Question

i have a 1990 toyota with a 22re engine. my problem is that when i hit the gas the engine spits and sputters, and if i hold the paddle down for a couple seconds it will take off.
it seems like it only does this when it's under a load ( while trying to drive) i can only hold the peddle down a tiny bit to take off or it will start to spit and sputter again.and i can't get up any real speed.
i don't think i can even check the fuel pump pressure to see if it's the pump...
any idea's?
Submitted: 3 years ago.
Category: Toyota
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Hello!

Thank you for asking your question on Just Answer!
You could have a bad mass air flow sensor. Or the snorkel from the mass air flow sensor to the throttle body could be ripped. Both are very common and can cause you vehicle to loose power along with many other drive ability issues. First look for cracks or rips or anywhere air can enter the engine that is not accounted for by the mass air flow sensor. Next comes the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor. This is a very important sensor input to the computer. It uses a hot wire sensing element to measure the amount of air entering the engine. The MAF sensor then outputs an analog voltage signal to the PCM proportional to the intake air mass. The PCM calculates the required fuel injector pulse width in order to provide the desired air/fuel ratio. If the sensor is bad than this air/fuel ratio will be off causing severe performance issues. In extreme cases, I have seen these two problems cause a no start condition. This input can also be used in determining transmission Electronic Pressure Control, shift and torque converter clutch scheduling. The check engine light may even pop on if the sensor is bad, the snorkel is ripped or a tube has fallen off. This will result in a lean condition.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
everything looks ok...how do i check the MAF sensor?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
DO you have a scanner or a volmteter?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
i have a volt meter.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Here is the testing and inspection from alldata.


Testing and Inspection



ON-VEHICLE INSPECTION





MEASURE RESISTANCE OF AIR FLOW METER

(a) Unplug the wiring connector from the air flow meter.
(b) Using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between each terminal.



If not within specification, replace the air flow meter.

INSPECTION OF AIR FLOW METER (REMOVED)




MEASURE RESISTANCE OF AIR FLOW METER



Move the measuring plate and, using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between each terminal.

NOTE: Resistance between terminals E2 and Vs will change in a wave pattern as the measuring plate slowly opens.


Customer: replied 3 years ago.
sorry for the relay... dead batterys!
OK, testing E2 & Vs meter set at 200k i was getting a reading of 00.3
retested with the meter set at 20k i was getting 0.30
And E2 & THA 5.84
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Sorry for the delay!

IT sounds right to me... just keep in mind, this is only a resistance test. The mass air flow sensor can fail in several ways.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Sorry...
the first test i did was to the Haynes Manuel.
i re-tested using the data you gave (above)
i got this....
E2 & Vs got this reading with plate opened, 23 with plate closed, 14
is this bad?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
What was open and closed again??
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
The door/ flap inside the MAF housing.

MEASURE RESISTANCE OF AIR FLOW METER

''Move the measuring plate and, using an ohmmeter, measure the resistance between each terminal.

NOTE: Resistance between terminals E2 and Vs will change in a wave pattern as the measuring plate slowly opens''


I also tested E2 with Vc resistance was 18 it should be between 100 and 300    right?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
I also tested E2 with Vc resistance was 18 it should be between 100 and 300 right?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
That is correct!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
so the MAF is good or bad?
<br />if bad, can i use a MAF cleaner on it?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
I would say so!

If the electrical specs are out of specification, maf cleaner will not fix this. A new sensor will be needed.

I DO hope you found my Answer to be helpful regarding your vehicles condition. IF SO-please hit **ACCEPT** as you read this Answer, in order that I may receive credit for my time, thanks. BONUSES & Positive Feedback Most appreciated!


Please Note: I receive ZERO Credit until & unless you choose to ACCEPT my well thought-out Answer.

REGARDS

AMEDEE
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK thanks man, i gonna put my faith in you and go buy a new MAF sensor.
WOW very expensive item! $215.00 for one refurbished. im OK with that if it gets me back on the road again.
so thanks again for the help.
have a good one.

Bill
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
You bet!

I DO hope you found my Answer to be helpful regarding your vehicles condition. IF SO-please hit **ACCEPT** as you read this Answer, in order that I may receive credit for my time, thanks. BONUSES & Positive Feedback Most appreciated!


Please Note: I receive ZERO Credit until & unless you choose to ACCEPT my well thought-out Answer.

REGARDS

AMEDEE
Amedee, Toyota Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 21869
Experience: ASE Master Technician advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Amedee and other Toyota Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
i bought a new MAF and it did not cure the problem!
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Sorry for the delay!

Have you run the tests on your new mass air flow sensor?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Yes, that was the first thing i did. it tested pretty much the same as the other one.
i was very surprised to see that. so i put the unit on the track and started it up.
and let it idle down than ( with the MAF not attached to the filter box) i started to hit the gas and it started to bog down immediately. the flap on the MAF opened and closed normaly as i hit the gas.
Any ides?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Did you say that you did this with the mass air flow sensor not attached ot the air box?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes only to see if the flap was working.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. did you then install the mass air flow sensor back to where it is supposed to be and the problem still continued?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. now.. our next step is to hook up the voltmeter to the o2 sensor signal wire and take a reading when the engine is bogging down.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
i have no one here to help me with that... ill have to do it tomorrow. i will e-mail you back then, OK?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
No problem!

Sounds good!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hello Amedee,
im back and have someone to help hit the gas while i check the o2 senson,
i see the sensor has 4 wires ill just need to know wich ones to check.
will i be checking for voltage ?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
You are looking for the signal voltage. It will be a signal from 0.00 to 1.0 volt.

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yes, im getting a little more then 1 volt, then up to 8 volts when we hit the gas. but only for a couple seconds then it go's back down to 1 - 1.3 v
the check engine light came on after we hit the gas the first time.

the thing the puzzle me the most is the engine will rev up with no problem when it's parked, but as soon as i put it in gear, and try to drive, it fall flat on it's face... i can hardly get up the driveway without it wanting to die.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Ok.. either your air snorkel is cracked or ripped or you your ignition or valve timing is off.

I have a feeling it is just going to be something with that air snorkel.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
can i spray some starting fluid around the area and see if it revs up.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
If it is the air snorkel, then yes.,. you could... but because it is not in vacuum... it will not cause the engine rpm to rise when you do this... it might cause the engine to stumble.... but sure.. you can do this... just be careful!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
no luck! didn't do anything! i just took it for a spin around the block and noticed , if i start off in 2nd ( so it don't rev up to much) and hold the gas down to the floor, it takes off good, then shift to 3rd and hold the gas down to the floor it runs good. same with 4th and 5th.
so could it be the throttle position sensor?
i have had a problem for about a year. when the engine almost gets to normal operating temp, and i hold the break peddle down , the engine revs up and down till it get all the way to normal operating temp then it runs normal.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
It is possible... but then there should be a code in the computer...
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
yeah, check engine light... do you think the reving up and down could be the TPS?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
It is possible... if there air not air or vacuum leaks and the mass air flow sensor is good... then the tps or even the o2 sensor can cause this
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
at first i thought it was the 02 sensor so i replaced it about 6 months ago but it didn't fix the problem :( my next thought was the TPS but i havn't bought one yet... looks like i might be now! lol
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Well, I would just test it first before replacing it...
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hello amedee.
i tested the TPS and seems to be ok ( im still not 100% sure)
anyway... the problem is getting worst! if i push the gas peddle down, it bogs, spits and sputters in even when it's in neutral. all i can get it to do is idle!!
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Sorry for the delay! I can give you a test that will help you narrow down the problem. HOwever, in order to do this test, we will need to watch the voltage on the o2 sensor while this problem is occurring. You can do this by watching your voltmeter inside the vehicle attached to a long wire that is connected to the front o2 sensor signal.

Does this sound like something that you would want to do in order to get to the bottom of your problem?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
Hi amedee,
Yes i can do this, ill just need to know wich wires to connect, there are 4 wires on my 02 sensor.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
It will be the black wire... here is a wiring diagram.

graphic
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
What am i looking for? lol
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
When you hook up the voltmeter to this wire and take it for a spin and get the vehicle to act up, we want to see if the sensor is going lean or rich. Close to 1.0 volt or close to 0.00 volt.

Under safe road conditions, a wide open throttle acceleration is performed. Try to maintain WOT for at least 5 seconds. 10 to 20 seconds would be better.

What will the pre cats do?

Will indicate rich

Should the barometric pid change?

Should remain stable! Very important!

What will air flow do?

Max out. Volumetric efficiency. Engine load 100%
(Engine load Parameter on scan tool should go close to 100%)


Results

Poor acceleration, rich exhaust, and good Barometric pressure = restricted exhaust or late ignition timing.

Poor acceleration, rich exhaust, low or decreasing Barometric pressure = intake path restricted

Poor acceleration lean exhaust and good barometric pressure = fuel delivery concern.

Poor acceleration, lean exhaust and low barometric pressure = air flow measurement error. (Ford has this problem with Mass air flow sensors)

Note: Some vehicles Barometric pressure is not updated until Wide open throttle.
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
ok. Attach 02 sensor black wire, to the + side of the volt meter.
Do i ground the (neg -) lead from the meter to the truck?
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
YES... find a good ground inside the truck. Look under the dash... maybe on the steering column??
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
ok.cool ill be back in a few.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Sounds good!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
OK, From normal operating temp.paddle 3/4 of the way down (and bogging) volt meter was at 1.40.... then with peddle all the way down ( one foot on the break ,3rd gear) 1.4 and dropping. held peddle down for about 5 sec's. and came to the end of the road, reading at a idle was 0.43/0.35
Then i got to a safe long straight road. peddle all the way down ( one foot on the break 3rd gear) after about 5 seconds i looked down at the meter and it was reading 1.0 and dropping. i continued to hold the paddle down for a total of 20 sec's. then let my foot off both gas and came to a stop then hit the gas again, and the truck took off!! driving like normal again.
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! i think it's fixed.
so i drove it home, and shut it off, then reconnected the sensor wire. and came in to tell you the good news.
so im gonna let it cool all the way down, then start it up ,let it get the norm temp and go for another spin to see if it hole's up.

WOW what a trip!!! i will update you after the second run.

Thank you so much :) Your the MAN!
Bill


Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Bill,

SO are you saying that the problem is all fixed?
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
i just took it out for a spin. it didn't get all the way cooled down but i took it for a run anyway. it's a little sluggish when i push it hard, but it's running ok. i think it's fixed, it's definitely running much better :)
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Excellent!

Glad to hear!

Have a good weekend!
Customer: replied 3 years ago.
check it out Amedee this is a picture of the engine in the truck we are working on.
i don't know if you'll be able to see it. if you have a e-mail address and would like to see it, i can send it to ya.



did it go thru.
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Almost... try it again...

Customer: replied 3 years ago.
my yota pic
Expert:  Amedee replied 3 years ago.
Nice! Looks pretty! Hope it stays running as good as it looks!

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