Toyota Repair Problems? Ask a Mechanic for Answers ASAP
Yes. That is corect. With the key in the on position The white wire with red stripe gets power at the coil and igniter. I hope you understand the igt and igf circuit and crankshaft sensor circuit ne signal. I I work at a shop and have a snap on modis with graphing capability, osciliscope, etc. Also have power probe.
Any way the wire does get power.
I will check again. What method do you suggest for checking spark at coil. so you are saying I shouldnt be getting a signal or voltage on igf unless I am getting spark.
Sorry , i do not accept this answer, I understand you needed to ask those other questions to verify things and be on the same page. In my 13 years experience I have never given up on a car, but this one is tough. In your toyota experience have you ever run into a bad ground with ignition system with this setup. I agree this car has a wiring problem with igniter or coil, that is was my conclusion before I signed into this site. I am also a member of identifix, they have several posts on this car for all of the above. I now that we agree on the problem I need help troubleshooting the grounds. If you think you can help give me a suggestion, if this is as far as you can take me I need to know.
Thank you for choosing JustAnswer and allowing me to help you resolve your Toyota questions!
Where is your shop located? IF you clear the 1300 code does it come back as soon as you crank the engine and it does not start?
Downers Grove Illinois. The 1300 was present for a short time, due to battery failure it has reset itself and not come back. That is the only clue I have that there is failfure in ignition cicrcuit, that and no spark. With a noid light, and cranking the light flashes once and the stops, I think the computer goes back into safe mode. Do you have clues or sugestions as the other expert confirmed everything I already knew.
However this car is no spark no injecter pulse!
Corrosion should not be an issue. Did you get the ground wires clean and tight to the intake manifold? Did you check the ground wire voltages at the computer when it is in the no start condition? Are you certain the parts installed are good? Have you tried installing all the original parts to see if the code 1300 comes back and is consistent since it ran prior to the engine swap? Is the engine and controls on it the exact same year? Just to clarify right now there is no pulse and no spark yet there are no codes??
all 4 grounds on intake are good. When I take the wire from the ignition coil and ground it with small gap I get a blue spark one time for every 6-8 seconds of cranking. I imagine there should be constant spark coming out of this wire. I bought my noid light lit from snap on. I have read that this kit isnt always acurate for this car, don't know if thats true or not. As far as the parts go they pass resistance tests and pass the graph tests I read to do on identifix. I think I am dealing with a bad connection somewhere, cuz when this car starts it runs so smooth like a sowing machine.
Now when cranking spark is there constantly, I am gonna inspect distributor again and swap it out with a different one.
okay, swapped distributor, I am getting spark on cylender one and cylender four, hope this helps.
I found something I dont like. The Ig T wire, at the igniter (white wire 2nd terminal has 5 volts with key on engine off. Shorted wire or bad ecm?
IGT Wire is supposed to have 5 volts the computer pulses this signal to trigger the ignition to ground the coil to energize the spark. Once the spark occurs this triggers the feedback signal on IGf to confirm the spark. If the computer does not see the IGF it shuts the injectors down. The computer wires that are White with the black tracer are the ground wires and most of them go to the intake manifold. The brown wires are also ground wires. IF you plug all these wires/connectors in and back probe the grounds there should be no voltage less then .02 volts or you can disconnect and OHM test them to ground. IS the p1300 coming back and engine giving good spark now and still not running? I am a little unclear what is going on as of now.
I very rarely see ECUs go bad. And when you do it is normally due to water contamination or the vehicle being jumped backwards. However I have seen a fair amount of igniter's go bad on this vehicle. It just does not make sense due to the fact that it ran fine before the engine installation which usually means something in the wiring, connectors or so on. Make sure that the body of the igniter is well grounded. If you're confident that you have all of the computer grounds and power inputs and the wiring between the igniter and the computer has been verified and is good or not shorted or open then you need to start somewhere possibly with a good Toyota igniter or one from a known good used vehicle. This type of problem is very difficult to diagnose in this type of format and needs to be a hands-on type of repair. If you understand the theory of operation of the IGT IGF circuit and have a good ociliscope you can usually pinpoint the problem very quickly. Using a voltmeter to monitor IGT are IGF like the repair manual shows on the older vehicles is very unreliable.
The dealer sells some connectors and wire ends for repairing you would need to check with the parts department to see what is still available or go to the junk yards and cut the ends you need. Let me know how it goes and if you need any thing in the future just ask for me Skyvisions in the question and I will get back to you.
Let me know how goes.
Being pushed to the edge of a problem car is what separates the best technicians from those who are just simply parts replacers. Although this was a long process it looks like you have learned a lot. To answer your question about the reluctor wheel on the crankshaft if the edges or teeth on this wheel got cracked or damaged or even been slightly it would show up on the waveform on your scope. If the teeth got bent back slightly the waveform would not have equal peaks top to bottom on the amplitude. If one tooth was missing there would be a regularity across the time or frequency. I believe this year and I would have to double check because the production in 95 to 96 they were introducing this new system. This is a 32 -2 tooth pattern the normal gap in the waveform is where the two teeth are missing so that the computer knows where top dead center is. If you need a good picture of what the waveform looks like, if you do not have, one let me know.
I need to wait for the igniter, and I might be over analyzing this car. Before I fixed the cps wiring there was no rpm when cranking on scanner. After fixng wire rpm shows up and reads 450 rpm when cranking. When graphing this cps do you hook one wire up to ground and one too ne signal wire on cps and crank?
On the scope use the ground and then depending on production plant it is the red wire or the White wire with the blue tracer and this is the harness side. This is the 32 minus 2 tooth sensor system. Use 5 volt and 20 msec and that will get you close on the scope.
It has been a crazy day have not been online much. I do appreciate the bonus and the extra accept and I will do my utmost best to help you get this running. There has been a lot of replies back to me and I'm getting a little confused as to what exactly is going on here. You have mentioned that you have found several broken wires in the harness and have repaired them correctly. At this point you're still getting the P. 1300 code is this correct? If this is the case and you have a good igniter and you have ruled out all of the computer inputs and grounds and you are suspecting issue with the wiring between the igniter and the computer because you have only tested it and the numbers don't look good I would run a separate wire harness from the pigtails at the computer that you already clipped and run two separate wires for IGT and IGF out to the igniter to see if this eliminates anything.
In 1996 there are two or three different possible options for ignition systems. Do you have a distributor or do you have two separate ignition coil packs? Sorry I do not live in Illinois I know someone in the Northeast somewhere if you're interested not sure how far he would be from you. We do see a lot of 420 codes in the Camry's and sienna. Always interested in new tricks and tips as to what you're referring to about a burn off.
This car is a 1996 camry 2.2 liter. I beleive it is federal emision with californiasetup. Tge wiring goes ecm to ignitert to one coil, to distributor cap/wrotor which has pickup coil inside and the cam sensor. The crank sensor sends ne signal to ecm to send igt signal to igniter which sends spark to cap/rotor, the igf signal confirms spark to ecm which allowys for fuel injector to operate.
Is the igf terminal on this ecm supposed to reciev voltage or send it out?We discussed this befor but maybe I didnt word it correctly. With the key in the on position what voltage shlould the igt wire read at the igniter and what should it read at ecm as far as voltage goes? i have gottne 3 different reading s for this wire in 5 days, 0, 1.2, 5 volts. If I cut this wire and measued volts only at the ecm this isolates any wires from messing with it or throwing off readings. Am I correct? All my other wires at the ecm read the specified volt value with key on. So I suspect There is a bad ground to ecm in wiring messing the reading up, or there is a wire touching another wire causing pcm to act up, or pcm is bad?would u say that is a good theory for the igf wire?Without this curcuit reading the right voltages fuel injectors will never pulse. So I want this wire to read correctly.
This is an early production 96 based on your description of the distributor and internal single coil inside..
Is the igf terminal on this ecm supposed to receive voltage or send it out?
IGf is a feedback to the computer from the igniter.
You keep bouncing around on this. Here is the description of the system of operation:
The ECM determines the ignition timing IE crank and cam sensor and turns on Tr1 in the ECU at a predetermined angle (°CA) before the desired ignition timing and outputs and ignition signal (IGT) to the igniter. Since the width of the IGT signal is constant, the dwell angle control circuit in the igniter determines the time the control circuit starts primary current flow to the ignition coil based on the engine rpm and ignition timing one revolution ago, that is, the time the Tr2 turns on. When it reaches the ignition timing, the ECM turns Tr1 off and outputs the IGT signal O. This turns Tr2 off, interrupting the primary current flow and generating a high voltage in the secondary coil which causes the spark plug to spark. Also, by the counter electromotive force generated when the primary current is interrupted IE field coil collapse, the igniter sends an ignition confirmation signal (IGF) to the ECM. The ECM stops fuel injection as a fail safe function when the IGF signal is not input to the ECM.
You can not accurately check this system with a voltmeter it is unreliable. You need to use a scope. IF you have confirmed there is no problem with the IGt and IGf wires from the ECU to the igniter then you need to check the signal generators ie pickup coils in the base of the distributer. and also the coil itself can cause issues. They are known to crack and become discolored on the top side by the Don't remember if you did anything with that. This can set a false P1300 code in some rare cases. It is not likely a bad ECU. It is not reliable to have the circuit open when testing igt and igf. everything needs plugged in and the engine needs to be cranking.
I gotcha, and I understand even better. My tests are based off of all data and identifix. I am gonna take a brake from this car for a couple days or a week and go back at it. I am sure I am missing something that you have told me and am just not catching it. I will do some graph tests and figure this out, but for now I need a break.
Burn off procedure!!!!!! Many four cylender toyotas have a 420 code. I replace lots of converters at my shop. However something always causes a converter to go bad, once that part is found and fixed a 420 code may be exibted sometimes with exsisting converter or new converter. This procedure is for four cylender motors on1998 toyotas and nissans only. With coil on plug setup
Remove one ignition coil(but keep pigtail plugged in) Set the coil on top of motor so when vehicle is running it is arcing. You will be running on 3 cylenders and get a misfire code. Start vehicle with coil off of plug and rev motor between 2-3000 rpm for 3-5 minutes. Shut off car put coil back on spark plug. You have just made the catalyctic converter at an operating temperature 200-300 hotter than normal. This allows any soot in converter to evaporate or burn up and exit the exhaust. This revives the catalyctic conveter and prevents the 420 code from coming back on( as long as the converter isnt broken in pieces.) That is the burn off procedure!!!! I have done it and it works!!!
You can save an oe converter from being replaced by doing this. As long as you have fixed the part that caused the poor fuel trims to burn up the converter in the first place.
I hope this trick is helpful and please dont tell all your friends. Thanks again skyvision I will talk to you in a week or two. I hope you appreciated my gratuity and tip, thats my way of saying thank you besides typing it.
Sounds good walking away sometimes for a break helps clear the mind. Thanks for the bonus again you would be surprised the number of people that don't pay :-( I will have to try the converter trick the next time unfortunately most of the ones I see are failure do to poor or deteriorated chemical make up of the converter not polluted with carbon.
No on the Quick struts. I do not see a lot of charcoal canisters go bad on the newer Toyota's only a few issues with the new style canister that has the built-in vacuum pump occasionally we will see the vacuum pumps lock up but early 2000 model Camrys and Corollas we're starting to see the diaphragms rupture in the canisters which will set a 440-441-446 codes.
I have used the quick struts from Monroe. I normally do not use Toyota struts due to the excessive price. I do agree that cars older than 7 to 10 years normally have weak springs and going the Quick struts route is usually the best option given the reliability of the strut tops rattling and making noise. One of the other major problems is when someone tops fuel up to full it causes the onboard vapor recovery system that is on the top of the fuel tank to get filled with fuel and damages it, also usually the first sign is that they complain about not being able to fill the tank up without having the lever click off without hardly any fuel being put in the car at all.
No problem you have been very generous. Do not need to click the accept button we are square. Let me know how it goes. If you need help in the future just ask for me Skyvisions in the question and I will get back to you.
Hope you had a nice thanksgiving. Ready for round two? One other problem on this toyota is when it runs the transmision will not engage in any gear. I don't think the pump is running. When I originally pulled the motor I left the transmision in. It didn't want to seperate from the trans. I think the torque converter got pulled outward from the keyway of the pump. So I gotta pull the motor again. NO big deal. When I pull the motor I am going to pull the wiring harness so I can run some resistance tests.
WHen I pull the motor I am going to leave the trans hooked up this time and seperate on the bench so I can inspect the pump and torque converter.
While everything is apart I can really look at the wiring harness. I think that is the reason for all my ignition problems. WHat do you think?
When you remove the torque converter from the transmission make sure you check the gears of the oil pump so that they were not damaged if you did not have them aligned correctly and bolted the transmission to the engine.
The 1.8 L engine used in the Toyota Corolla and the Celica from 1998 through about 2002 had major problems with the piston rings. The engines were designed for low sulfur content fuels. The federal government did not stick to their word what a shock that is, and force the oil refineries to reduce the sulfur content. This in turn caused the sulfur to destroy the newly designed rings that were not supposed to have high sulfur fuels. You normally will not see any smoking from the exhaust because the converter does such a good job of cleaning up hydrocarbons. The long and short of it is the short block will have to be replaced or in some cases I have been able to hone the cylinder walls and installed new piston rings but this is not recommended usually there is too much cylinder bore wear.
Short block is the low half of the engine minus the head. YOu are basically looking at an overhaul when it is said and done. The engine has to be removed. Most people that attempt the honing of the cylinders do it in house. Toyota sells a complete short block assembly but they are not cheap. Go to www.techinfo.toyota.com and for $15 you can get a 2 day subscription and get all the removal and tear down info in PDF format and anything else you could want. Make sure you do the valve guide seal also use only toyota seals.
Remove the 3-12 mm bolts and lift the cam cap up and take a picture of the inside of the cam and the camshaft cap and post that or me.
I ordered the camshaft and it will be hear tuesday. I wont have acess to take any more pictures till then. From the looks of this I think this motor has been thru hell! Do those caps work as bearings? I wasn't thinking, and am new to internal motor rebuilding. I think this motor could uses a lot of r/r. I will get back to you then. Have you ever seen a race come apart off A crankshaft like that? It looks to me like there was lot of heat.
Based on the picture it looks like the camshaft has spun or started to gather material on the forward larger cam cap. This larger cap with the three bolts is basically the upper bearing and the cylinder head is a lower bearing there are no bearing inserts for the camshaft. If it is started to gather or collect material do not put a new camshaft in the cylinder head the cylinder head will be junk. And if you're using large amounts of oil you're probably not going to be able to rebuild this engine.
SO if you change a camshaft I guess you need to change the bearings as well? The bearings being the head and the cap. would it make sense to change the cylender head/ or send to a machine shop and caps or are you thinking there is going to be more to it then that?
Because of oil consumption and camshaft issue I guess I need to do the longblock or swap out this motor for a know good one? (based on the customers budget).
I just want to make sure you did see the metal piece on the cam that is between the sprocket and the first lobe? It is very shiny. Look at the exaust cam do you see the difference between the two? That is the issue.I can physically move that washer or ring with my hand. I am worried that it is going to hit the lobe while rotating. That is the issue. we did a valve cover gasket and noticed it was just sittin there loosly. What would you do skyvision? or do you need to see that picture to tell me more?
There are no bearings for the camshaft. The caps and the cylinder head ride directly on the camshaft. If there is any scoring of the camshaft or these journals in the cylinder head then they need to be replaced. From the looks of this engine you're probably going to be better off trying to find a good used engine that they will guarantee is not using oil. That piece that you're referring to that is spinning on the camshaft is the thrust shoulder or collar is broken off from the camshaft. That front journal is what keeps the camshaft from moving left to right. The only way this can happen is if that front journal in the cylinder head which based on the picture and the metal fragments along the edge of the bearing is seizing up and Is probably the case. The cylinder head is no good.
Hello skyvisions! long time know talk.
I did a timing belt and water pump on a 2002 toyota land cruiser 4.7 liter. I replaced tensioner and idler pully also. It runs great. The customer took the vehicle for two days and put on about 120 miles and the check engine light vsc light and vss light came on.
Any suggestions or do you need more info
The VSC lights come on by default with the check engine light. Do you have the engine code numbers?