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Skyvisions
Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 12924
Experience:  Toyota Master Diagnostic
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89 Toyota pickup: 22RE..retard..idle speed..the timing marks line up

Resolved Question:

'89 Toyota pickup (22RE). The engine timing changed. The engine is racing and I can't retard the timing enough or lower the idle speed enough to make the timing marks line up. At the same time, though, the engine doesn't have any power - not enough to even get up my driveway, which is steep but usually I can do it in 2nd gear. Now I have to put it in 4wd low to get up the driveway. My daughter has been driving the truck while I work on her Corolla (see my other posts!). She doesn't remember any big jolts (I'm wondering if the timing chain jumped) but we live in the country and the town she works in has a lot of pot holes in the roads. I'm also wondering about the throttle position sensor - it was messed with a few years ago. How do I test it, or tell if it's set correctly? The only thing I've done recently is replace the speedometer cable (Thanks, Max).
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Toyota
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

normally when the TPS fails or the IDLE points are out of adjustment the check engine light will come on and a code will be set in the computer. Have you checked for codes? the best thing to do is pull the valve cover and check the cam timing to crankshaft. The guides on both sides are known to break. This will cause it to jump time especially if it has high miles.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Well, that's an Ah Hah, and an Aw Man, at the same time. The Ah Hah because I replaced the head gasket last summer and broke one of those guides. The Aw Man because it would be so much easier to replace the TPS!

 

And maybe I will. I had not seen an engine light so hadn't checked codes, but I did just now. I got 4-1, 4-2, 5-1. According to my Haynes manual, 4-1 is an open or short in the TPS. 4-2 has to do with the speed sensor circuit, which is something I'm not familiar with. 5-1 is either A/C - which this truck doesn't have - or TPS again. Does this warrant replacing the TPS? or is there another way to test it?

 

Can you tel; me about the speed sensor circuit? Is that a switch or a valve that I can look at and check?

 

Thanks!

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

The code 51 is related to the IDLE points or signal input to the ECU. The 41 has to do with the VTA input to the input which tells the computer the Voltage of the Throttle Angle. There are 2 speed sensors. One is in the trans and one in the back of the speedo head the computer did not see an input at a given time. I would be more concerned about the TPS codes first. Make sure the IDLE contacts are set correctly and the VTA input is fluctuating voltage as the throttle is opened and closed.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

"Make sure the IDLE contacts are set correctly and the VTA input is fluctuating voltage as the throttle is opened and closed."

 

I know I look smart, but can you tell me how to go about doing this? Thanks!

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

The IDL pin second from the bottom should have 0 volts with the throttle completely closed. As soon as you crack the throttle open the voltage should go to 12 v. The VTA 3rd from the bottom should fluctuate and change according to throttle opening. VCC top wire should be constant. Back probe the wires with the connect plugged in and the key on. Click the link below and save for the resistance tests if you have an Ohmmeter.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?ojlnzjzjtml

 

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I can't open the link (message says it's "set to private"), but I think I got it from the description - this is the TPS connector, right? Is there an easy way to back probe that? I have to unwrap the wries going into the connector?
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.
Try the link again. Peel the boot back to back probe. Let me know when you get the info.
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.
Any luck yet?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Got it - key on; connect plugged in. VCC top wire is constant at around 4v. VTA 3rd from bottom, fluctuates with throttle position between about 0.1 and 4 volts. IDL 2nd from bottom is constant at 12v, regardless of throttle position.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Do you have time to look at my post about the '95 Corolla? It's listed as finished because I made a payment on it, but I still haven't been able to start the car. The guy who was helping me had sent really useful information that was getting me step by step further, but he hasn't been online since last Thursday, which is when I asked my last question on that one. I'll add a bonus for you if you can read through that and help out. Thanks!
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

The IDL points are not adjusted correctly when the throttle is completely closed the voltage should drop to zero this is why you're getting the code 51. The other TPS code could be an intermittent problem in the VTA reading to the computer. As far as your Corolla goes I will read through what the other expert has posted but generally is considered bad etiquette to overstep someone else's question and answer process. I will send him a note to reply to you further so that he could finish up with you if that is helpful. Let me know.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

okay - I understand the etiquette, just wondered if he was on an extended vacation or something, since I asked the question 4 days ago and it doesn't look like he has been online since.

 

Is there a way to adjust the IDL points?

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

Click the link below and save for more information on the TPS adjustment procedure. I will send the other expert a message noting that you're trying to get in touch with him you may try responding to his last post and reply to him also.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?mlmnzhjy1a1

 

 

Skyvisions

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

That other post has been manually closed you will need to contact a moderator or try and open it from your end to get further input from that expert. Let me know when you have the information above.

 

Skyvisions



Edited by Skyvisions on 2/15/2010 at 5:30 PM EST
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

Sorry for the delay. I had some down time.

 

I took the throttle body off and cleaned it and am trying to do the tests you sent but I'm a little confused about what I should be doing. I don't get the appropriate readings indicated and I'm not sure if I can adjust or how. The TPS was initially turned as far clockwise at it will go. There was clearance between the throttle stop screw and throttle lever when the valve was closed. I adjusted the screws so that there is no longer clearance. I always have continuity between E2 and IDL and always have continuity between E2 and VTA. I can't turn the sensor any further clockwise.

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

The throttle stop screw should never need to be adjusted. With the throttle plate completely closed adjust the throttle stop screw that has the 6 mm locking nut until the brass throttle plate just cracks loose from the throttle bore. At this point lock the nut on the threaded screw so that your base throttle plate stop is secured. Then put your OHM meter between the bottom two terminals IDL and E1. If you loosen the two Philips screws and you installed the throttle position sensor correctly in other words so the little tabs are pushing against the spring-loaded sensor mechanism when you open the throttle plate. You should be able to loosen the two screws and slowly rotate the sensor until you have infinity or no continuity between these two terminals. This needs to take place at the specified .033 inch between the stop screw and stop lever So that when you remove the feeler gauge and go against the stop screw you should then have continuity between these two terminals. Tighten the two screws on the sensor and recheck that you have continuity then as soon as you crack the throttle open (ie at .033 clearance) you have infinity or an open circuit in the contact points.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I always have continuity between those E2 and IDL, whether the throttle is completely closed or completely open.

 

I guess it wasn't the throttle stop screw that I adjusted - it was a similar screw on the lever that goes to the thing that looks like a dash pot.

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

Make sure that you get the dash pot adjusted correctly and the base screw if you messed with that. Remove the throttle position sensor and make sure that the tabs are installed in the right position so that the sensor is opening. It may not be installed correctly you install it then rotat it so that you feel the spring tension on the metal tabs of the throttle body.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I did double check the tps - even tried it the other way but it was obviously wrong (spun completely), so I have the tabs lined up correctly on the TPS.

 

How do I know whether or not the dash pot is adjusted correctly?

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

It is designed to allow the throttle to come back slowly when the throttle is completely closed or released it should not be holding a throttle open. It sounds like the TPS is bad if you cannot get it to go to infinity or open on the two contact points at any position.

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
okay - when I first took it off, the throttle was returning slowly, but there was always a gap between the lever and the stop screw. I adjusted the screw so that there was no clearance when the throttle was closed. I'll call around and try to get a new TPS. Do you know if the part for an '89 is the same as the part for an '86? I have a friend with an '86 - we thought maybe we could switch them out and see if that worked. If I can't get mine to adjust properly then it sounds like I need to replace it anyway.
Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

I don't have the part number for the 86 to 89 without the particular VIN number my information does not go back that far. You can easily call a local parts store and they should be able to look that information up for you as far as the year range that will fit.

 

Skyvisions

Skyvisions, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Toyota
Satisfied Customers: 12924
Experience: Toyota Master Diagnostic
Skyvisions and 9 other Toyota Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I put in a new throttle position sensor, adjusted according to the instructions you sent, and reset the timing. I'm still getting the codes 41 and 42, the engine lopes at idle and has no power moving. Any ideas? Thanks

 

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

The code 42 for the speed sensor should not be a focus at this point that will not keep the engine from running the code 41 is still the computer not seeing the voltage of the throttle angle. Using a volt meter back probe wire and double check the top terminal which is VCC (G/Y) or voltage constant what is this voltage with the key in the on position with the connector plugged in? The second terminal down is the VTA or voltage throttle angle (Y) wire what is this voltage with a throttle closed and then monitor as you slowly open the throttle does the voltage change in correlation with the throttle opening?

 

Skyvisions

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

I did the adjustments again and it's running better. I have to leave town for a week - My daughter will be driving it if it's running okay while I'm gone. I will check it again next weekend when I'm back and see what it's reading. Thanks for all your help.

 

Expert:  Skyvisions replied 4 years ago.

Let me know how it goes.

 

Skyvisions

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