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jgordosea
jgordosea, Enrolled Agent
Category: Tax
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Experience:  I've prepared all types of taxes since 1987.
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Question regarding basis property: I purchased investment

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Question regarding basis property:
I purchased investment property 4/1/2013
Points incurred during closing $5625.00
Rented property 9/1/2013
Do I add whole $5625.00 to basis a point?
My loan is 25 years.
DO I add 5/12 *5625.00 to basis.
DO I depreciate basis. Form 4562
For remainder year, Sep, October, Nov, Dec, 4/12 *$5625.00 I deduct
Remainder cost as expense. What do you call it on schedule E.
Points expense.
Please be exact.
Please give a number I need to depreciate and deduct.
What happens if I refinance.
Do I deduct not depreciated sum on schedule E as expense. Points Expense.
Please be exact.
Submitted: 11 months ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  jgordosea replied 11 months ago.

Greetings,

 

Points will be deducted ratably over the life of the loan.

 

 

Amounts are rounded to the nearest dollar.

 

For a twenty five year loan deduct each month 1/300 of the total (12 x 25 = 300).

For a full year you will deduct 12/300 of the total, 5625 times 12/300 = 225 for the second year and so on until all used or paid off.

For purchase 4/1 the loan was in force for 9 months or 9/300 = 169 deduction the first year.

 

It is not critical what you call it on Schedule E: points or prepaid interest. Usually this is listed on line 12 as mortgage interest but can also be listed on line 13 as other interest if that is best for you. When I have more than one item that will total, such as line 12 mortgage interest such as on Form 1098 and points I prefer to use a subschedule that lists the items and the total that is then carried to line 12.

Which line you use and what you call them is up to you and based on what is most useful and understandable to you, now and in the future. Pick what works for you.

Regardless of which line on the form the expense is listed (or what it is called) it is the same result of deducting that prorated portion of the total points each year.

 

If you refinance and pay off this loan any remaining amount not yet deducted at the time of the refinance will be taken in full as an expense in that tax year.

 

A useful reference of what and how to deduct closing costs for rental property is at http://www.minassiancpa.com/articles/realestate/closingcosts.html

 

Please ask if you need more discussion or clarification.

Thank you.

 

 

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

From my Hud Statement: Line: 103 Settlement charges to Borrower $10,730


$5625 Points.


Remainder fee $5105 Example credit report, appraisal fee, floor certificate, Tax Insurance, Lenders title.


Loan 25 years.


I may depreciate $5105.00 over 25 years of the loan. As well?


I bought property 4/1/2013.


IN total I will depreciate $10730 over 25 years? Yes


Or only points. What do I do with remainder expense?


$5105???


I own 5 properties. I made a mistake in the past. I use to add whole closing cost.


Example $10730 directly to purchase price. That was my basis.


I never depreciated settlement cost.


2nd question. If I refinance in 2 years. I will be able to write off on Schedule E.


Only remainder balance on points. $5625.00?


Unused fee I subtract from Schedule E. Line ? Other Expenses – Deductable points.


Please be specific.

Expert:  jgordosea replied 11 months ago.
Hello again,

"2nd question. If I refinance in 2 years. I will be able to write off on Schedule E.
Only remainder balance on points. $5625.00?
Unused fee I subtract from Schedule E. Line ? Other Expenses – Deductable points."

If you refinance in the second year and pay off all of that loan then you will take the balance of the points on the same line 12 or 13 same as before as interest in that year.
With first year deduction of 169 the rest 5456(5625 -169)would be taken as an interest expense.

"I may depreciate $5105.00 over 25 years of the loan. As well?
I bought property 4/1/2013.
IN total I will depreciate $10730 over 25 years? Yes
Or only points. What do I do with remainder expense?"

No this is not what is depreciated.
The points are interest expense each year as explained.

The rest of the closing costs depends on what it is for which is why I gave the link that has a list line by line. Some are not used, some are current expense and the rest are added to the purchase price as part of the cost of the property.

Reserves might be part of that 5105 and are not a deduction and are not added to the cost of the property. The reserves, such as for insurance or property taxes are just set aside amounts that will be part of the expense that you do deduct for insurance or taxes, so those amounts of closing costs are not used at all. Instead you will list the total paid for the year as insurance or tax (and that will include the reserves)

Any other deductible items that were paid in closing can be claimed in the year of purchase. For example, from the linked article:
"Adjustments for items paid by seller in advance

106. City/town taxes – These are allowed as a current rental deduction but must be reduced by any amount on Line 210
107. County taxes – These are allowed as a current rental deduction but must be reduced by any amount on Line 211
108. Assessments – These are allowed as a current rental deduction but must be reduced by any amount on Line 212. However, if the assessments are specifically labeled as local improvement district (LID) assessments, they are not currently deductible and must be amortized over the life of the loan.

Adjustments for items unpaid by seller

210. City/town taxes
211. County taxes
212. Assessments
These amounts reduce any deductible amounts on lines 106, 107 and 108 above."

So, no there is not usually the total of closing costs that is added to the purchase price that is depreciated.
After the reserves and current deductible amounts, such as property tax, then the rest of the costs of closing (credit report, appraisal fee, floor certificate, Tax Insurance, Lenders title, etc) are added to the cost that can be used for depreciation.

The purchase price plus the closing costs not deducted (such as points, property and reserves) less the cost of the land, if any, is the basis for depreciation of the property.

Hopefully that answers your new questions.
But again,please ask if you need more discussion or clarification.
Thank you.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

 


Purchase price $650,000 loan 25 years.


650,000 x 75% = Basis for property $487,500 Will depreciate. 27.5 years.


Purchase date 4/1/2013.


Points $5625.00 depreciate 25 years life of loan add to basis.


NOT CLEAR:


Tax service $200


Environmental Transaction $900.00


Title Lender’s insurance $2612.50


Insurance Service $85.00


All these fees add to BASIS depreciate for over 27.5 years.


B) Property Tax and Property Insurance from Had Statement will be subtracted on Schedule E


C) If I refinance in 2 years remainder fee for points I can deduct on Schedule E


Line 13 other INTEREST??? Where exactly I subtracted.


D) 2nd refinance I uncured points fee I will be able to depreciate new point fee correct.


 

Expert:  jgordosea replied 11 months ago.

Hello again

 

All these fees add to BASIS depreciate for over 27.5 years.
YES

B) Property Tax and Property Insurance from Had Statement will be subtracted on Schedule E

YES

C) If I refinance in 2 years remainder fee for points I can deduct on Schedule E

YES

Line 13 other INTEREST??? Where exactly I subtracted.

YES

D) 2nd refinance I uncured points fee I will be able to depreciate new point fee correct

YES will treat the same as the points on original loan.

 

You have it all correct.

jgordosea, Enrolled Agent
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 3004
Experience: I've prepared all types of taxes since 1987.
jgordosea and 5 other Tax Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 11 months ago.

 


This is a rental property:


Bought property 4/1/2013 rental leases starts 9/1/2013


I paid taxes 1st quarter covering period 4/1, 5/1 and 6/1 .


Quarter taxes $3500.00 do I add that quarter to basis as well.


2nd I borrowed 150,000 from my line of equity to pay for renovation


Interest from 4/1 to 8/31/2013 is added to basis. ?


Interest from 9/1/2013 once tenants move in -12/31/2013 is reported on line 13


Schedule E?


3rd I borrowed 40,000 from my visa. To pay for renovation. Incurred 3% transaction fee meaning $1200.00 Fee for borrowing money beside introductory 1.99 interest rate.


Transaction Fee $1200 I add to BASIS or Can deduct on SCHEDULE E. Line 13 Bank Fees?


Interest on credit card from 4/1/-8/31/2013 I add to basis?


Remainder interest from Credit CARD. 9/1/2013-12/31/2013 I subtract from Line 13 Schedule E.

Expert:  jgordosea replied 11 months ago.

Greetings,

 

Although follow up to a question is part of the service, site policy is that each new question must be in a separate thread.

 

We already moved past the original question on deduction of points and discussed how to deduct all of the other closing costs which you have correct.

 

This latest series of questions is not part of the points question or even part of closing costs which was also answered.

Please start a new thread (you can put my name in the question) so we can work on these other questions.

 

I do look forward to helping you get correct the taxes, interest and renovation cost after closing but have to ask we not do so in this question because of site policy.

Thank you.

Customer: replied 11 months ago.

 


Processing fee $1200.00 I incurred on VISA. Besides Monthly interest. I add to BASIS. Not Depreciate. Who lump sum.


Rental leases on this property begin 9/1/2013.


Visa Interest 1.99 % on $40,000, I subtract on Schedule E. Under line 12 or is line 13 other interest. Do I have to attach sheet other explain other interest.

Expert:  jgordosea replied 11 months ago.

Hello again,

 

Processing fee $1200.00 I incurred on VISA. Besides Monthly interest. I add to BASIS.

 

Yes, the 40,000 spent plus the 1200 fee are both added to the cost basis of the property.

 

Visa Interest 1.99 % on $40,000, I subtract on Schedule E. Under line 12 or is line 13 other interest. Do I have to attach sheet other explain other interest.

 

Yes this is other interest on line 13.

Whenever I have more than one item I do use a subschedule that show the various items and the total that will go over to the line,

Also use a description that you can identify later. For example "Interest on loan for improvements" or "Interest on renovation made before rented" or what best serves you.

 

There is not any need to explain it with the return but there is a need for you to be able to identify what you did claim.

Also, please know that if there are other items on this credit card and the balance is being paid down that perhaps it will not always be 1.99% on the entire 40,000. As the credit card balance is paid down there will not always be 40,000 due.

 

As always, please ask if you need more discussion or clarification.
Thank you.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

Depreciation question.


Bought building $165000 renovated it for $45000


Closing cost points title survey $5000


Overall cost $215,000


Date: 09/1/2013


How do I estimate percentage to building less land.


 

Expert:  jgordosea replied 8 months ago.

Hello again,

 

Any reasonable method can be used for the allocation.

 

My favorite method is to look up the assessed value on the property appraiser site for the entire property and the land and to use that same ratio to the purchase price. So, if the appraiser has total at 150,000 and land at 30,000 then 1/5 is land value. Using that 1/5 of my purchase gives me my land cost basis and also gives me the percent that my sales price is for the land.

 

If the appraiser had 1/5 of the assessment for land and the 170 was the purchase then 1/5 of the 170 would be land basis with 4/5 (plus improvements) the cost for depreciation of the building.

 

As mentioned, any reasonable method is allowed. For example, if there was a comparable sale of a lot that could be a reasonable cost of the land. Or, a local experienced real estate agent may be able to give a reasonable cost of the land.

 

Hope this gives several ideas of how to use a reasonable method to determine the cost of the land.

 

Please ask if you need more discussion or clarification.

Thank you.

 

 

Customer: replied 8 months ago.


Assessed Value on taxes example 452,100


Building 375,000


Tax assessors value of building and land $826600


 


DO I add improvement cost to 375000 and renovation cost 45000


Adding building cost to $420000


 


I think in the past I made a mistake I would add total cost of purchase plus renovation and closing cost. Add allocate 30 % to land and 70% to building. I have been doing this for 10 years. Would my prior depreciation would be disallowed.


 


 

Customer: replied 8 months ago.

I need to keep appraisal report for years with the file.


What if I depreciated at a rate of 70 % towards building 30 % towards land. I don't know how I got these rations. Read somewhere in the past.


Deprecation for last 10 years will be disallowed.


Plus how do I work with you in the future.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.


Assessed Value on taxes example 452,100


Building 375,000


Tax assessors value of building and land $826600


 


DO I add improvement cost to 375000 and renovation cost 45000


Adding building cost to $420000


 


I think in the past I made a mistake I would add total cost of purchase plus renovation and closing cost. Add allocate 30 % to land and 70% to building. I have been doing this for 10 years. Would my prior depreciation would be disallowed

Expert:  jgordosea replied 8 months ago.

Hello again,

 

I think in the past I made a mistake I would add total cost of purchase plus renovation and closing cost. Add allocate 30 % to land and 70% to building. I have been doing this for 10 years. Would my prior depreciation would be disallowed.

 

If 30% (or a bit more) is reasonable for that property then there is no reason that any prior depreciation would be disallowed, no.

 

Assessed Value on taxes example 452,100

Building 375,000
Tax assessors value of building and land $826600

DO I add improvement cost to 375000 and renovation cost 45000

Adding building cost to $420000

 

Sorry I did not quite follow what you are asking. (And 452100 + 375000 = 826100)

If the assessed total was 826600 and the land was 452100 then the land was about 55%.

The assessed values are used just to get the percent, fraction or ratio of the land and building. That same ratio is then used on the purchase or sales price to find your portion of building and land. The actual amounts for assessment are not used except to find the fraction.

 

The most correct method is to use the land fraction and building fraction on your total cost including closing cost. Then add improvements or renovation to either land or building as it applies to that portion.

 

But, remember it only has to be reasonable and not necessary the most exact.

 

There is a procedure using Form 3115 to correct prior wrong depreciation, if needed. This is a bit difficult and may be best done by an experienced tax practitioner. This is a change in accounting method that can be done when the error is discovered or when the property is sold.

Also realize that any depreciation claimed now (or before now) will increase the gain when the property is eventually sold or disposed. So, the benefit is only in when the depreciation expense is taken since when sold that expense amount taken will be taxed to you as gain.

 

The best way to work with me is to include in your question my screen name , jgordosea, when you ask a question as that will stay with the question for other experts to see.If you choose me as the expert you want to work with when you ask but do not put my name in the question that choice later may not be seen by other experts. If I happen not to be online you can still ask any other expert that does answer that you want to wait for me to help you.

 

Hope that helps to clarify .

Please do ask if you still need help or make another question with my name.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of service.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.


Excellent advice.


 


if I depreciated building at a higher rate, Depreciation on sale will not be disallowed by IRS. I will simple pay higher tax.


 


A friend told me I need to calculate square footage of lot.


 

Expert:  jgordosea replied 8 months ago.

Indeed, using square footage might be another reasonable method if you know a value for that area. Still I prefer to use the property assessment as I can that is a reliable source of expertise in land value.

 

Thank you for the compliment, but the best thanks is your rating.

Please do include my name in any new question you may have.

 

 

Customer: replied 8 months ago.


This is a residential 4 family property. Accountant I am interviewing


agresively talking about 25 year depreciation and 15 year .


I am confused. Parking lot he want to depreciate 15 years.


I only know 27.5 year depreciation.


Kitchen cabinet I depreciated 27.5 years should have used 7 years.


He want to depreciate it in 10 year. Didn't bring improvement to the building. Cost $7000


He is questing me my last years 15 years prior depreciation.


Items could have been improvements instead I added them to basis.


IS that a problem. I wanted to be conservative.


Please instruct. Kitchen, bathroom remodel should be 5-7 or 11 year depreciation. NOT one year expense.


 

Expert:  jgordosea replied 8 months ago.
Hello again,

Site policy requires a new question instead of adding different questions to this conversation, sorry.

You can use this link http://www.justanswer.com/tax/

Or for site and customer questions go to http://ww2.justanswer.com/help

Thank you.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.


I am typing a new question would like to get you on SITE.


Receive another practisioner.


CONFUSED HOW DO I GET YOU ON LINE TO ANSER NEW QUESTION.

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