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Thank you for your question.
First, we have to deal with the fact that she is still legally married
If she is legally married, then the only way for her to be eligible as a dependent for her parents is if:
If your child and his or her spouse file a joint return only to claim a refund of income tax withheld or estimated tax paid.
That is from Publication 501
Assuming that that is the case (and that will largely depend on the husband's salary), then the parents may claim their daughter AND their grandchild as dependents
However, you mentioned that she received a W2 with no Fica or Medicare taken out.......was federal or state tax withheld?
No federal or state tax was taken out of the W-2 that had no Medicare or SS wages or deductions listed. On the other W-2, no federal w/h and only $8.00 state tax w/h. Daughter's husband did not work (as far as we know) in 2012 and was thrown out of the parents house because he did not look
for a job
Are you sure that this is a W2 and not a 1099MISC?
How did she earn the money for that job?
Staring right at her document from her school and it is a W-2. Must have been for work study. He 1099-T was for more than $20,000 in fees, tuition, etc. and she got about $4,000 in scholarship on the 1099-T I will have to check about the type of work, but it can't be much, since the Grandfather
was classifying it as minimum wage
Ok, that helped. Thank you for checking that
On the W-2 from hr school, they tool out .23 for state
Do her parents have the right to claim her? yes, and no
hr should be her
If her husband files MFJ, and she is also filed on her parent's tax return as a dependent, then there will be an IRS letter sent to both parties
Don't know if the husband filed a return. Not many people are speaking to him. I think he is essentially homeless
Then my advice would be to have her parents file her and her child as their dependent, and if for some strange reason he does file MFJ, it will kick back showing her SS# XXXXX used on a previously filed return
I agree with the yes and no. Common sense would dictate that the grandparents benefit, but our tax code often operates in a logic-free zone!
You must have talked to the boys on Capital Hill too..........they no longer take my phone calls...........
Won't she need to file separately, as a student and as the dependent of someone else?
Yes, she will
They will ask for his SS#, so hopefully she has it
if not, it will take more time to process is all
Her return will be MFS?
let me think here for just a second
We do have her SS # XXXXX it will appear on both her's and her parents. I think they have the deadbeat dad's SS # XXXXX
I need to look something up
Why do I feel we need to offer the deadbeat Dad $100 to file MFJ?
I know they can claim her if she files jointly only for a refund...........but I need to check the mfs status
Good luck there, I went to the IRS website and that's why you and I are talking
I don't do that much tax work, but the few I do always seem to be grey.
OK.................here's what I know for sure
if the married couple files ONLY to get a refund, but didn't support themselves, then the grandparents may claim the daughter as a QUALIFYING RELATIVE
scratch that I truly meant to type QUALIFYING CHILD
Think the $8.00 State will cover us?
I can't find anything that states that this can be done if she files separate
hold on just a second....I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to answer this
I had just the daughter in the computer program and she owed money, but adding the husband would probably be zero tax and again, maybe the $8.00 helps.
in order for the grandparents to file her, she MUST file jointly (and if he's a deadbeat and didn't work, then he would have no income)
Bet you dollars to donuts that the husband came up with 1099 income and used his child's SS # XXXXX
it doesn't matter if she actually GETS the refund....the point is....they would have no tax liability
how old is his child?
or are you speaking about the grandchild here we've been discussing
True, but I'm going to need his signature (pin). and that $100 may be what it takes.
The grandchild was only about 2 years old at the end of 2012.
at any rate, if he as a 1099MISC for more than $400, then they must file jointly because of the SE tax, and that will mean that the grandparents can't file her
she needs to be divorced by 12/31/2013
if that's her plan
She can challenge him
if that's what he did
To a duel?
first, you need to try having her parents claim her........and the grandchild........and see if they're numbers have been "used" (I hate that expression)
So we file the daughter's 2012 return as MFJ and se what happens. I think they still speak and I think she can hit him with a cash inducement.
BE SURE she claims her daughter
Yup: I have been there before with children SS #'s taken by wrong spouse and also preparers sending in fake returns
unfortunately, there's ALOT of fraud around the EIC
if he used the child on his return................my guess is he would have filed HH and gotten the earned income credit
THAT she can challenge
I've been in this business 27 years, and just recently I had 2 clients come to me because they're preparer tried to "make a deal with them"
I don't even know how to ASK something like thatt
So you want her to claim her child on her return and the grandparents can't claim either their daughter or grand-daughter?
I believe anything these days
depends. on if her joint return (with the child on it) makes it through IRS efile
that's no guarantee he won't try later..........but IRS will stop him, and then they have to prove where the child lived, and THAT will be where she challenges him
Anne: let me be sure I am on the same wavelength. File the grandparent return first with the daughter and grandchild on that return as dependents
the daughter must file jointly (showing no income for her soon to be ex) and she files her daughter on her return
you need to see if he used the daughter
So she is showing 3 on a joint return?
once that clears (If it does), THEN the parents can claim the daughter.............the granddaughter will be on her mom's return, and she will get an Earned Income Credit for the child....probably in the neighborhood of $1000
that's the only way to know if he filed as Head of Household (which he's not) and if both claim the child, the IRS will catch it
I just have to mark the spot on the program on her return that she can be claimed by someone else on their return
Yes..............but you need to give her return time to clear (meaning once she gets her refund)
before the grandparents file
Can I do MFJ without his permission????
Unfortunately he was still alive at the end of 2012
if you can't find him..............but it would have to be mailed in
I like the way you think...............you've been making me smile...............thank you
Stating that the husband could not be found and therefore we could not get him to sign the return
Did I mention that the daughter never changed her maiden name?
but the marriage is a matter of public record
has she ever signed his name for any reason?
to cash a check for instance
Don't know. Maybe. If she did it once, than she could sign the return for him
depends on the laws in your state..............you'd have to check
in MI, once you let your spouse sign your name once..........they can do ALL KINDS of things
Then why not sign the 8879 for both?
open a cc in your name
As an EA I can't tell you to do that
I always send them out to the parking lot to have the wife or husband, who I know is sitting in the car in 100 degree south carolina heat
LOL in MI they're generally too cold to get out of the car...........they stayed where it was warm
Okay: Since this has been an amazing journey. can we recap options?
do you want to go first this time?
The daughter could file MFJ or MFS. If she files MFS she has to claim herself and her parents can't claim her
so far so good
She really should file MFJ
She does MFJ and can be claimed by someone else
That goes on the return
again...........if the only reason she filed jointly was to claim a refund and she did not provide more that 1/2 of her total support
but I did make an error
She definitely did not provide more than 1/2 her support. Her parents paid for her associates degree and the baby's daycare and everyting else
she would NOT be eligible for the EIC since she would be a dependent
That was my errror
So again, she files MFJ with her SS#, the deadbeat husband SS # (and the baby)
What if the GP's have become the baby's legal guardians?
Do you enjoy throwing me curve balls?
All heck no. I just know I'm going to get hit with that in the morning when I talk to the client
Hold for a sec, I have to throw a dog out
I generally let mine walk out..............but to each his own.........lol
The parent has the superior right to claim the child
If the grandparents had legal custody, wouldn't that involve claiming that both parents were unfit?
They told her not to marry the guy and the rest is history
that doesn't make her a bad parent though
just a poor judge of men
I'm afraid she'
she's not alone in that boat
I Honestly don't know the daughter
well, the parents would have to take her to court to get legal custody
maybe you should meet her...............sounds like she might be available soon...........lol
Anyway. Daughter goes MFJ and has to claim the baby. No EIC or federal Refund
and she's going to college................
you've got it
Yup. No dumb co-eds in college!
you DO know that song from
"my Fair Lady" is running through my head now
I think she's got it
only change the she to a he
Before I pass out.
if you need me again..................I'm usually around
but are you clear what you need to do tomorow?
I hate the idea of mailing the return in. Drake will get me a rejection within 24 hours if one is out there to be had
if they both sign the EF form.........(he's in the car.....remember?)
My regular email isXXX@XXXXXX.XXX
as long as she has his SS#
I'm sorry....they "xx" out everyone's email
they don't want us to have contact with anyone outside of this venye
did not know that
they're very protective of that, and I guess I can't blame them
are we good then?
You have your plan of attack?
Anyway, for the sake of argument, She files MFJ and she claims her daughter
The gp's file with her as a qualifying child but they can;t claim the grandkid
the IRS will often THINK she qualifies for the EIC and either send it to her, or send her a letter claiming she was eligible
until they get the grandparent's return
so just be aware of that....and if they send her a check, be sure she doesn't cash it
If I efile her return, how long before I efile the GP's. Your opinion
as soon as hers makes it through the system..................however, they will have to mail in...because her SS# XXXXX show its already been used
Her's being the 22 year old
Okay, let's stop there (1:15AM) and I will talk to the client in the morning.
Thanks for your help
yep same time here
nice chatting with ou
and thank you for using Justanswer/Pearl