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PDtax
PDtax, CPA firm owner
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 1891
Experience:  32 years tax experience, including four years at a Big 4 firm.
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I need help in calculating the date an IRS 10 year to collect

Resolved Question:

I need help in calculating the date an IRS 10 year to collect statute will expire. There had been a period of tolling due to an OIC. I am trying to pin down the exact date.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  Robin D. replied 1 year ago.

Robin D :

Hello and thank you for using Just Answer,
The 10-year period will be increased by the amount of time your request for relief was pending plus 60 days. Precisely when the statute of limitation has commenced can be ascertained from a transcript of your account, which can be obtained by filing IRS Form 4506-T. The transcript of the account will identify the date of all assessments with respect to the tax years at issue. Securing the transcript of account is an essential step to properly verify the time remaining on the collection of statute.

Robin D :

You must get the transcript so you can see the exact date.

Customer:

Ok----there are 7 yrs 6 assessed on 4/16/07 1 yr 3/26/07. There were actually 2 offers made.

Customer:

through the FOA is received 2 AO Offer Froms

Robin D :

You have each year to calculate then. The last assessment of the tax is the commencement date of the 10-year statute period. The time stopped when the OIC was pending. If the OIC was not accepted the time started and then add 90 days.

Customer:

Are you familiar with the 'AO Offer' Form the IRS provides in the transcripts. They appear to have it all summed up.

Customer:

If so there is also more to it. Based on me having the assessed dates & the AO Offer dates can you help me do the actual calculation. It appears that for a professional it should be pretty straightforward.

Customer:

When you say I have to assess each one---can't we just use the same date they all have?

Robin D :

I think I should let another expert assist you. I am loathed to advise an incorrect date as it could mean additional money for you to pay if I do not advise exactly.

Robin D :

If you do not mind I will opt out and let an expert that does this on a regular basis assist.

Robin D :

Please do not respond the other expert will post then you just respond to their post only.

Robin D :

It should be just a moment

Robin D :

There ara a few on now that will jump in.

Robin D :

Thank you

Customer:

No----it is not about me potentially paying additional money. It is just for me to have for my own knowledge.

Expert:  PDtax replied 1 year ago.
Welcome to the site. Different Expert here. I'm PDtax.

The keys to calculating the CSED (collection statute expiration date) are knowing when the tax was assessed (generally April 15th after the tax year; i. e. 4/15/12 starts the statute for a 2011 Form 1040).

Add to that the pendancy period of the Offer plus sixty days (if IRS had your Offer 6/1/11, and rejected it 9/1/11, you would add 93 days plus 60 more to the CSED total).

You can compare your math to the IRS transcript, available online, by mail, or if you have a tax pro working with you, through a phone call to the IRS Practitioner Priority Line (1-866-860-4259). That line, exclusively for tax pros, allows your pro to talk with an IRS pro who can read from and fax the transcript out right away. Depending on timing, it may be best to go this way as opposed to waiting weeks for a transcript, even through a 4506-T request.

Because there are other items that can toll, or suspend, the running, the IRS figure may be different that the one you compute. For example, IRS used to be able to ask for CSED waivers (the Forms 870 or 870-AD).

Thanks for asking at Just Answer. Please advise if these is anything specific I can address, such as tax years, type of tax, status of Offer and why it was either treated as rejected (extends statute) or refused (does not extend statute), etc.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Ok----this is the 3rd different answer from a tax professional. In addition there have been 3 different answers from the IRS and one from a tax attny. This is why I am asking--total chaos.


 


Why can't anyone take the in AO Offer document provided by the IRS - factor in the accurate assessment dates provided by the IRS as well as the 2 OIC opening and closing dates & the additional 93 days you refer to above---which btw---none of the people I referred to about had it at 93 days. I am not a tax professional-it may seem simple to you. this is very frustrating when you have done all of the right things-asking all of the correct questions.

Expert:  PDtax replied 1 year ago.
We're a bit limited here to providing a guide to assist. I don't have the transcript in front of me, neither did the previous Expert.

A few more facts may help me:

Did you make a FOIA request (you refer to FOA earlier in this thread)?

Since you made two OIC filings, please advise how they received/processed by IRS?

You mention an AO (Accepted Offer) Offer processing. Did you have an accepted Offer, then default on its terms?

Please appreciate there are unique facts to each CSED calculation, and the advisors you spoke to may not have had all the facts before them. Please confirm the facts as you know them, with a chronology, and I will calculate a CSED. You can then compare it to the IRS determined one per the transcript (you should order if you haven't already).



Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Yes I made a FOIA request for and received


 


1. The dates of assessment pertaining to the years involved.


 


2. The OIC for some reason was submitted twice within 6 months. I do not know why.There are 2 separate offer #'s.


 


3. It was denied.


 


4. I received 2 AO Offer documents showing the dates it was received/opened and closed out-denied.


 


5. There was no accepted offer.

Expert:  PDtax replied 1 year ago.
While a transcript would add a few facts, such as the codes used to describe the Offer rejections, I have had success arguing that the statute in cases like yours would not change from the original ten year from date assessed.

I see that there are two 1040 filings in play, a multiple year filing 4/16/07 and a single year filing 3/07. If the Offers were indeed rejected (not denied), nothing should delay the running of the statutes. 2017 could be a very good year.

This assumes you filed actual returns, not SFR's, and that there are not additional issues that would act to toll the statute.

A transcript for the years filed will have the IRS calculated CSED on page 1 of each year. If their math disagrees with yours, unless a Revenue Officer is assigned, the best bet for the transcripts with any expediency is hiring a tax pro and getting the transcripts from the Practitioner Priority Line, as mentioned earlier.

I hope that gives you some guidance. Ask any follow up you have. If I have answered your questions, positive feedback lets management know, and credits me with helping today. Thanks again. I'm PDtax.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Let me see if I have this right-In order to try to pin this date down-


 


1. The transcript does not really help me that much?


 


2. Does the AO Offer help? The open & close dates they provide?


 


3. Are you saying that if the Offers were rejected vs denied that the statute should have kept running?


 


4. Me filing vs IRS---is that what SFR's are? How does that effect the statute if they filed them?


 


5. Regarding the CSED is there a way for me to get that myself? FOIA.


That sounds like what I want to get my hands on?


 


6. I have a Revenue Officer. I am afraid to ask him about it-worried that it may 'trigger' something. He did me that it was just put into cnc.


 


7. The statute keeps running in cnc?

Expert:  PDtax replied 1 year ago.

That's a lot of follow up. Let's try: 1. The transcript does not really help me that much? Yes it will. Get it. The IRS calculated CSED alone has value. 2. Does the AO Offer help? The open & close dates they provide? The types of rejection will affect the CSED. 3. Are you saying that if the Offers were rejected vs denied that the statute should have kept running? If the Offers were rejected, the statute runs. If the Offers were processed and denied, the statute is extended by the pendancy of the Offer plus I think 60 days. 4. Me filing vs IRS---is that what SFR's are? How does that effect the statute if they filed them? SFR returns are substitute for returns, filed by IRS with the information they have, like W-2's and the like. They do not start the collection statute. 5. Regarding the CSED is there a way for me to get that myself? FOIA. It's on the transcript. That sounds like what I want to get my hands on? Yes. 6. I have a Revenue Officer. I am afraid to ask him about it-worried that it may 'trigger' something. He did me that it was just put into cnc. CNC is like the county fair and finding money when dealing with IRS. CNC stands for currently not collectible. I might agree that asking the Revenue Officer about the statute expiration could 'trigger something', but not in your case. IRS does not expect to get money from you. They should have no problem telling you when these debts will vanish. 7. The statute continues to run in CNC. Lastly, even though you didn't ask, it's likely that a bankruptcy would discharge all the tax debts, and you wouldn't have to wait for the statute expirations. Especially if you foresaw an increase in your income down the road, or if your retirement savings (normally exempt in bankruptcy) might be eligible for drawdown soon, you might consider taking that step. consult a bankruptcy attorney first. Thanks again from Just Answer. Positive feedback closes out your question, and gets me paid. I'm PDtax.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

I gotta give it to you with the complete and prompt responses. You furthered my understanding of the situation. I do have more related questions but I will not burden you with them now. They warrant another set of questions instead of dragging this out.


 


To close this out I will just ask you this and pick up rest later.


 


As for asking RO---I know you are only giving me your non binding opinion----you don't think I will regret asking him about it? If it is a good option wouldn't that cut through all of this other work. I'll wait for your last response and then close this out----thanks


 


 


 


?

Expert:  PDtax replied 1 year ago.
I said ask the RO. He has the answer, and asking is not likely to affect your case.
PDtax, CPA firm owner
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 1891
Experience: 32 years tax experience, including four years at a Big 4 firm.
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