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Lane
Lane, CFP, MBA, CRPS
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 3108
Experience:  Providing Financial & Tax advice since 1986
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What is the proper workers compensation category for instructors

Resolved Question:

What is the proper workers' compensation category for instructors at a baseball training facility
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Tax
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

NPVAdvisor :

HI, you're in New York?

Customer:

yes

Customer:

thats Wisconsin

NPVAdvisor :

I am putting the alphabetical listing for NCCI codes which New York Uses on my Google drive for you first

NPVAdvisor :

Nope wiconsin and New Your both use NCCI

Customer:

ok

NPVAdvisor :

Now let me look, BRB

NPVAdvisor :

These states all use NCCI: Delaware, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Wisconsin

Customer:

thank you

NPVAdvisor :

Don't see under baseball (even though they DO list soccer field operation and clerical)

NPVAdvisor :

here's a possible

NPVAdvisor :

CAMP OPERATION NOC 9015

Customer:

ok

NPVAdvisor :

the only thing under sports f any kind is ...

NPVAdvisor :

SPORTING GOOD STORES 8017 SPORTING GOODS MFG NOC 4902

NPVAdvisor :

Is this pro, or a subscription service?

Customer:

The workers com p ins co put all wages in the policy under 9016

Customer:

Recreational facilitities or amusement devices : shooting galleries- operation- using air rifles- no firearms

NPVAdvisor :

ok let me get the numerical listing (by the way, this is a pretty good resource, if you need WC things regularly)

Customer:

thank you

NPVAdvisor :

tht's just the site, hang on and I'll get the numerical

Customer:

having trouble classifying the category

NPVAdvisor :

Haven't looked yet but there's a link to the numerical

Customer:

ok

NPVAdvisor :

9016
AMUSEMENT PARK OR EXHIBITION OPERATION &
DRIVERS

NPVAdvisor :

Applies to the operation by owners or lessees and
includes musicians and box office employees.
Operation or maintenance of amusement devices
to be separately rated. The two foregoing
classifications Codes 9180 and 9016) do not apply
to amusements, exhibitions, or other operations
separately classified in this manual (such as
bathhouses, billiard halls, boat livery, bowling lanes,
garages, restaurants, retail stores, theaters)
whether operated by the owner or lessee of the
exhibition or amusement park or through
independent concession.
Includes guides, ticket sellers, gate attendants,
maintenance employees.

Customer:

no i understand 9016 but what does a baseball facility have to do with a shooting gallery

NPVAdvisor :

I agree, but hang on I see now that there are more under 9016 BRB

Customer:

ok

NPVAdvisor :

9016 DOG SHOW OPERATION BY OWNER OR LESSEE & DRIVING GOLF RANGE Includes musicians and box office employees.
DRIVERS Operation or maintenance of amusement devices
to be separately rated as Code 9180-Amusement
device operation NOC.
See recreation.
EXHIBITIONS See Amusement Park.
GAMES See Recreational Facilities.
GOLF DRIVING RANGES
GUIDES - TOUR - TRAVELING
HORSE SHOW OPERATION BY OWNER OR LESSEE &
DRIVERS
ICE-SKATING RINK OPERATION & DRIVERS
Includes musicians and box office employees.
Operation or maintenance of amusement devices
to be separately rated as Code 9180-Amusement
device operation NOC.
Applies to the operation of ice-skating rinks by
owners or lessees and includes musicians and box
office employees. Operation or maintenance of
amusement devices to be separately rated as Code
9180-Amusement device operation NOC.
PONY RIDES - CARE & MAINTENANCE OF TRACK ETC.
RACE TRACK OPERATION - CAR & MOTORCYCLE
RACETRACK OPERATION HORSE OR DOG ALL OTHER
EMPLOYEES INCLUDING STARTERS AND THEIR
ASSISTANTS, DRIVERS
RECREATIONAL FACILITIES OR AMUSEMENT DEVICES
Includes ticket sellers & stand maintenance.
Includes archery ranges, ball or dart throwing,
baseball batting ranges, miniature golf courses, golf
driving ranges, shooting galleries using air rifles (no
fire arms), public tennis courts (not municipal),.

Customer:

youre thinking 9180

NPVAdvisor :

I guess they're using RECREATIONAL FACILITIES OR AMUSEMENT DEVICE, baseball batting ranges,

NPVAdvisor :

If you'll look above I guess they're using RECREATIONAL FACILITIES OR AMUSEMENT DEVICE, baseball batting ranges, is in that last list under 9016 LONG list

Customer:

I dont think thats correct

NPVAdvisor :

Can't get the formatting to match but (you'll see it in the numerical list) across from RECREATIONAL FACILITIES OR AMUSEMENT DEVICES you see...

NPVAdvisor :

ncludes archery ranges, ball or dart throwing,
baseball batting ranges, miniature golf courses, golf
driving ranges, shooting galleries using air rifles (no
fire arms), public tennis courts (not municipal),.

NPVAdvisor :

You may have answered this already ... what kinfd of facility, training for a pro team? or is this a for pay service like a camp

Customer:

yes thats in 9180

Customer:

players on teams go there to take batting lessons

NPVAdvisor :

9180 AMUSEMENT DEVICE OPERATION NOC-NOT TRAVELING &
DRIVERS

NPVAdvisor :

and

NPVAdvisor :

or

NPVAdvisor :

9182
ATHLETIC TEAM OR PARK: OPERATIONS & DRIVERS
Applies to all employees other than players,
coaches, managers or umpires.

Customer:

you think this is appropriate

NPVAdvisor :

9182 seems to be the best fit

Customer:

any idea what the rate would be

NPVAdvisor :

Do you know anything about the nexus, link between the baseball tem and the facility

NPVAdvisor :

ownership iscompletely separate

NPVAdvisor :

serves several pro teams?

Customer:

no

NPVAdvisor :

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1gSn_Bi_uoGa_rSGpL5WKrh6X36XLjt4oy67H4QdGvetDm--09khKAffYf4L6/edit?usp=sharing

NPVAdvisor :

woops meant that as a link:

Customer:

ok

NPVAdvisor :

I think this is a paid service through NCCI

NPVAdvisor :

That's their site

Customer:

thank youit does thanks so much

NPVAdvisor :

You're welcome If I can find published rate for free, I'll post under this queston

NPVAdvisor :

If this does it for now...


I would appreciate either an “accept” or a feedback rating of 3 (OK) or better. That's the only way they will pay us here. HOWEVER, if you need more on this, PLEASE COME BACK here, so you won't be charged for another question

Customer:

if you can publish rate I would appreciate it

NPVAdvisor :

I am still looking , on NY site now ... may take a while ... mind if I switch to Q&A so I can dig in and then post? (1 hr or so?)

Customer:

sure

NPVAdvisor :

K thx check back in an hour or so

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.
Our chat has ended, but you can still continue to ask me questions here until you are satisfied with your answer. Come back to this page to view our conversation and any other new information.

What happens now?

If you haven’t already done so, please rate your answer above. Or, you can reply to me using the box below.
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

Still looking Vito,

Have found several sties that cater to specific class like drives hat publish rates, nothing for 9182

Keep checking here, though. I'll tell you if I think I've exhausted everything.

Lane
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

BINGO!

Class Code NCCI Rate Dev. Rate
9182 2.87 2.703


Here's the whole table:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/19GBU9uRdKJsCzeGD2j0qKHgS_nS7HJrZdC1sEMS3AaAmR6pohFNppi48pU8b/edit?usp=sharing



Lane

(Positive feedback, or an accept, appreciated ... its the only way we get paid) :)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

are you saying 9182 looks the best and the rates are $2.87 abd $2.703

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

That's right

If you're concerned about the rates, you might look at the table I linked for you and see how they compare to what the insurance company was using.

But those are the rates for 9182, and I do not see a better fit, interms of the way classification is described.

DO take a look at the table though, (dates, perspective, etc.) but I believe that the rate were good for claims through 12/31/2012

Hope this helps
Lane
Lane, CFP, MBA, CRPS
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 3108
Experience: Providing Financial & Tax advice since 1986
Lane and 5 other Tax Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.
Hi Vito ,


I'm just following up with you to see how everything is going. Did my answer help?


Let me know,
Lane
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

It did how ever my rate from the Insurance Co listed the rate at $$11.73 while the sheet was considerably less. Just wondering if the rates for 9182 are applicable for NY

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

I wonder if there's possibly a conversion factor, and that is certainly possible.

I was just looking for anything I could find out there for you that we could get for free.

(I'm sure NCCI will guarantee something for you ... but not for these kind of prices.)


Tell ya what ... I'll see if I can find anything on some of the the New York Sites or in some of th academic databases I have access to.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

ok great


 

Customer: replied 1 year ago.

There is hitting, pitching, and fielding instruction going at the facility.


 


Do you still feel 9182 is the best fit?


 


Can the owner be excluded from workers comp?

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.

I do ... and still can't find anything published for free ... you might be able to call the board, in NY, ad ask?

On the Workers comp. generally, owners CAN elect not to he covered.

Sole Proprietors, Partners and Sole Proprietors are excluded by default.

But usually C-Corp Officers are automatically included and have to do a written request.

I'm going into a meeting at 5:30 and will see if I can find NY specifics on this too.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.

Is it true it has to be done when you set up the policy.


 


Or can the officers of an S-Corp elect not to be covered if they no longer


 


desire to do so

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.


Found this, but this is just a posting site ... no guarantees (BUT there was enough specificity in the post regarding New York, I though it m.might give you a place to start)

Might want to check with the pool carrier. In NY, the owner can opt out of the coverage only if the owner's policy is in the standard market, not the pool, and only if the owner doesn't physically manufacture anything. The pool will most likely require you to carry coverage on the owners. It is perfectly legal to pay the owners a small stipend and then bonus them at yearend. Only a portion of the bonus would be subject to premium. Keep in mind that I'm not a licensed agent in NY and your best bet is to contact a licensed agent and tell them of your dilemma. Oh, one other word of caution. If you have already been audited and have not paid the back charge, you will be blacklisted until it is paid. What that means is that if you fail to pay the additional premium and you are cancelled for non-payment or if you decide to avoid the charges by changing carriers, no one will write your coverage. Another alternative might be the employee leasing route, where the premiums tend to be much cheaper, but are paid weekly versus monthly.

Have you seen this: http://www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/Employers/EmployerHandbook.pdf

I think the answer to your opt out after the fact question is there, still reading through it.

Most states do allow an after the fact opt out.

Look on page 19 of the handbook.

Expert:  Lane replied 1 year ago.


THis is from a one page slipsheet for business owners (NY Workers Comp)

Who Doesn’t Need to be Covered
Sole proprietors, individuals in partnerships
(including LP, LLC, LLP, PLLC, PLLP or RLLP)
and one/two-person corporations where they
own all stock (a share or more each) and hold all
corporate offices do not require coverage for
themselves if they do not have any employees.
Business owners can always include themselves
on a policy. For more complete information,
including requirements for business owners
serving as subcontractors, see Ch. 3 of the
Employers’ Handbook, on the Board’s web site.

http://www.wcb.ny.gov:8765/cs.html?url=http%3A//www.wcb.ny.gov/content/main/TheBoard/BusinessOwners.pdf&charset=iso-8859-1&qt=owners&col=search1&n=8&la=en

Going back to look at chapter 3 now...
Lane, CFP, MBA, CRPS
Category: Tax
Satisfied Customers: 3108
Experience: Providing Financial & Tax advice since 1986
Lane and 5 other Tax Specialists are ready to help you

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