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JohnF2015, Small Engine Technician
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Experience:  Owner/Service Technician at S & J Small Engines
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The Kohler engine with the 3 gears is a mower unit. I have

Customer Question

Hi there, the Kohler engine with the 3 gears is a Walker mower unit. I have the same dilemma. could you please email the solution page to me please. I suspect that the manufacturers do this on purpose! Thanks
JA: What's the make and model of the mower? And can you guesstimate how old it is?
Customer: Its old. 1997 from memory. This rebuild I have had the block resleeved and have decided to correctly install the 3 balance gears. The mower is a Walker M16 GHS model nd on about its 3rd rebuild!!
JA: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?
Customer: Yes Ive had all the machining and new parts supplied ex the US.( Im in NZ)
JA: Anything else we should know to help you best?
Customer: No thanks for asking. Its just the correct method of timing these three balance gears. I see that the last customer you helped was 7 years ago!
Submitted: 4 months ago.
Category: Small Engine
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

Welcome to JUST ANSWER small engines, let me try to help you !! I don't know it all, but maybe together we can get you a satisfactory answer!

Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

See section 12.B in the service manual link above for the timing marks. page 135 starts it/

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi Curtis, thanks for the contact. Quick question, is this link youve supplied, the same page as was sent to Carl 7 years previous which seems to be an answer that isnt from Kohler, but perhaps only available to Walker techs? Cheers Andy
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

I can't answer that, I was not on site 7 years ago. Engine is the M16, which is the walker engine. Engine is not special to he walker model.

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
As Im in NZ and away from the city I prefer to use email as our cell coverage isnt all that good. I will copy and paste the answer sent to Carl, as he went roun in circles and eventualy someone there came up with the right answer. It may ake me a couple of minutes to do.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

OK>

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Here is the link to your document. I would like to thank Rick G. for hooking up the link for me. I hope this helps you. Let me know if you need anything else. <br /><br /><br /><a href="http://billious.com/dl/SB-208.pdf" target="_blank">http://billious.com/dl/SB-208.pdf</a>J.R., Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 7445
Experience:  Owner of outdoor power equipment business, repairing all makes and models.
J.R. and 6 other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Ask your own question nowCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
HI J.R. HOORAY - looks like just what the doctor ordered -THANK YOU VERY MUCH will leave you a bonus ---Carl
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

Links are too old to access. But i' not sure why the service manual with the timing marks would not be the same!

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Yeah well as I said I have no been able to get any satisfaction othe than findigths histoicllnk.As its on the justanswer servers surely a bit of detective work will unearth who did what?? cheers
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Sorry key boards having a fit, leaving out bits!
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

Did you download the service manual link????

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
It only shows 2 x gears. Pge attachd
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Ask J.R. Your Own QuestionJ.R., Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 7445
Experience:  Owner of outdoor power equipment business, repairing all makes and models.
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J.R. is online nowI am trying to reassemble a KOHLER M16 engine . I have downloaded
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★I am trying to reassemble a KOHLER M16 engine . I have downloaded a KOHLER shop manual.The area where I am having difficulty is timing the three balance gears. The manual says to line up the primary mark on the upper gear with the primary mark on on the crankshaft gear, and line up the primary mark on the lower gear with the secondary mark on the crankshaft . with no mention of the middle gear ? There is also the question of how many times to rotate the crankshaft between gears,or how to tell when everything is right
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Expert:  The Home Smithy replied 7 years ago.
HiCustomer
Here is the page that shows the timing marks between the crank and the balance gear. Use method 2 to align the timing marks correctly.
Step 5 gives the criteria for the timing to be correct.
Please post any other concerns here.
Best, THS
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
This is the same page that I have. You have not addressed the fact that middle gear is not mentioned.Expert:  The Home Smithy replied 7 years ago.
Hmmm I see your point. The only mention of a center gear is where it says to insert the crank into the bearing untill it barly meshes with the center gear.
At this point I am going to opt out of your question and sugggest that you call Kohler tech support and ask them.
This will also open your question up to the other experts. One of them may have the answer to your question.
 
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
The lower balance gear needs to be taken off. You time the crankshaft to the camshaft. You then push the crank all the way in. Once you have done that you have to turn the engine to about 15 degress past BDC. You will then put the lower gear on.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
What about the center balance gear ?Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
The engine only has 2 balance gears. You will also have the camshaft gear and the crank gear. 4 gears total.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
NO-sorry there are 3 three balance gearsExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
What are the model and spec numbers off of the engine?
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
J.R.--Kohler M16AQ5 spec #711536Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
See attached link. Look at the following sections. Crankshaft. You will have the gear on the crank and 2 balance gears that are reference #2. Camshaft. You will have the camshaft gear. Governor. You will have the governor gear. You have a total of 5 gears in the engine, but only 4 have to be timed. Let me know what I am missing.
 
 
http://www.partstree.com/parts/?lc=kohler_engines&mn=M16-711536
 
 
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
this engine has crank gear,cam gear,govenor gear & 3 (three)balance gearsExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Can you take a picture of it as I have worked on several (100s) and have never seen one with 3 balance gears.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Are the 3 balance gears shown in the picture that was posted from the manual?
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
the picture that was posted from the manual is not clear enough to tell.I will take a picture but you will have to tell me how to send it to youExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Take the picture and then load it on to your computer. When you go to reply to this there will be a toobar at the top. There is a picture of a tree. Click on the tree and it will allow you to browse your computer for the picture. The picture must be in JPEG and it must be 1mb or smaller.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
When I click on browse nothing happensExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
When you click on browse in the first box it should bring up another box that says browse. Does it?
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
noExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I am not sure why it is doing that. Do you have another place on the web you can put it and then link me to it?
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
I could email it to youExp
Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Customer: replied 7 years ago.
I could email it to you
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
You will have to contact the moderators to do that as they do not allow direct contact. You could also email the picture to the moderators and then ask if they could attach it to the post.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
what is moderator address?
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Go to this site and join. It is free. Once you have it uploaded link me to it.
 
http://photobucket.com/
Ask Your Own Small Engine Question
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
See figure 10b-35 of the manual. Does that help? Those are the only 2 balance gears I have ever seen in these engines
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
OK J.R.its done give it a tryExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I will need to know where it is located. Log back into your account and then open the picture. Put the mouse clear at the top in the address bar and then right click and hit copy. Go back into the JA site and do a reply. After you are in the reply box right click on the mouse and hit paste.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
http://s676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Customer/?action=tageditalbumExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
That did not work either. I am going to contact the mods. It may take a bit.
 
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
http://s676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Customer/?action=view¤t=ebaypics0001.jpgExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I have never seen one like that so I am going to opt out and let someone else try.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
Did you get picture of gears?
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I just went and looked at my old microfiche and found the procedure. I do not think I have a printed copy of it, so I will have to write it down off of the microfiche. I think we are on our way to your answer.
Ask Your Own Small Engine Question
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I though it was 1 page,but it is 4 pages with several pictures. The kohler service bulletin is #208. I am going to see if I can locate a printed copy.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
Hi J.R.; Just wondering how its going,any progress? --Carl
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I have still not been able to loate a printed copy of that service bulletin. Lsay, I have it on microfiche. I tried to take pictures of the microfiche reader with the sheets in it, but it does not show up good enough. Do you have a kohler dealer close to you?
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
Yes,but he's not helpful since I'm doing the work myself.Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I am going to call my kohler distributor tomorrow and see if I can get a printed copy.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
Thank YouExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I will let you know tomorrow.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
OK
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
I have the information. The file is in PDF so I have to get the mods to allow me to send it to you. I have contacted them and as soon as I am instructed what I can do I will send it to you.
Ask Your Own Small Engine QuestionCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
Sounds good == CarlExpert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Here is the link to your document. I would like to thank Rick G. for hooking up the link for me. I hope this helps you. Let me know if you need anything else. <br /><br /><br /><a href="http://billious.com/dl/SB-208.pdf" target="_blank">http://billious.com/dl/SB-208.pdf</a>J.R., Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 7445
Experience:  Owner of outdoor power equipment business, repairing all makes and models.
J.R. and 6 other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Ask your own question nowCustomer: replied 7 years ago.
HI J.R. HOORAY - looks like just what the doctor ordered -THANK YOU VERY MUCH will leave you a bonus ---Carl
Expert:  J.R. replied 7 years ago.
Thank you very much. Sorry it took so long.
Expert:  Curtis B. replied 4 months ago.

Let me opt out, maybe someone else can help. Do NOT respond to me or it will lock your question. Sorry.

Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

Hello My name is***** not sure if you have the problem resolved?

Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

my question was you did buy it in new zealand correct? or is it a us engine?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi Bil,l Its a US Kohler as fitted to a walker m16 ghs 1997 ride on. These engines are an export unit and have THREE balance gears which mesh with the crankshaft. The std Magnum M16 only has TWO. If you read the script I sent back to Curtis on Friday you will realise that the answer was provided 7 years ago to a chap called Carl who had the same dilemma but in your own country. I cant figure out why this answer cant be located from your own records and forwarded to me! The only bit that doesnt work is the link. Thanks Andy
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

I did read over the conversation.. the only thing i was wondering was can you resend me the picture you sent/had 7 years ago?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
This link to this conversation only came about through me doing a Google search of the subject. I have no idea who Carl is other than the fact that he got the answer from Just Answers 7 year ago and I now want to know what that answer is, because I have the same dilemma. That being that Kohlers repair manual instructions are lacking this vital peice of info. Cheers Andy
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

If you dont mind waiting a few day i want to take a look at the service manual..and do a little checking on this... what model walker unit.. maybe i could also get some information that way..

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi Bill, the model of the engine is M16 AQS........Spec No 711562........Serial Number(###) ###-####
The mower is a Walker MC GHS serial number 28297.........year 1997.
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

hello andy.. So i was doing some checking what you are having problem is putting the unit back together. you have a cam gear, crank gear and a blance gear is that the 3 gears you are talking about? you are looking for infor to make sure the timing on the blance gear is correct?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi Bill, Yes but not as detailed in the service bulletin because they dont even mention the third gear.
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

ok go to this manual http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/tp_2203_a.pdf

go to page 12b it talks about how to install the gear and what is needed

Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

btw according to the manual i sent you there is is two ways to install that gear with a tool.. and without the tool.. read section 12b

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Please re read the entire dialogue again. You are missing the point. cheers
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

im sorry.. please explain to me the problem then you are looking for a timing for the blance gear. correct?

Also just so you know i am a walker machanic. I am trying to understand.. can you send me pictures maybe of what you are dealing with so i can see?

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi Bill, my MC GHS mower has a Kohler M16 600 cc single cylinder 16HP engine. I have had it reconditioned and purchased all the necessary replacement parts. Internally this engine has small balance gears which are driven off the crank shaft. Usually this engine has TWO balance gears and the timing of these is described in the engine rebuild literature supplied by Kohler.
My engine has THREE balance gears in the crankcase and I cannot find any literature describing the balancing sequence for THREE balance gears.
This is my question. Is the correct literature available and from whom?
Kind regards
***** *****
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

i will look under a walker manual. this week i will let you know..

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Thank you
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

Ok Andy..

Just like i thought the Walker service manual only tell me information about the walker unit its self. it doesnt tell me anything about the engine.

The only thing i got is the service manual that was sent. I wish i could see what you are looking at..

if you wish i will opt out and let another expert try to figure this out.. I do fear that you will be walking into the same problem with anyone other expert. If you could send me a picture i might be able to diagnoise better.. Let me know your thoughts.

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
Hi please find a photo attached showing the 3 balance gears. Thanks Andy
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

I have never seen one with three gears.. but if you look in the pic you will see the two blance gears are touching.. so i think third gear is there to keep the gears in touch or in time with each other.. if that make sense.. so i would adjust the third gear as you would the other gears according to the bullent section 12-b because they all have to stay in time with each other..

Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

here is the picture

Customer: replied 4 months ago.
what you have taken the best part of 2 weeks to tell me is that no one knows what is the situation with a Kohler engine with three balance gears. Surely the first thing to do is ask Kohler the manufacturer. Secondly, 'Just Answers" has extracted a further 27 dollar payment out of my account without my approval. Frankly I think the whole saga amounts to a bloody rip off.
Expert:  Bill McCusker replied 4 months ago.

i understand i dont know why just answers took more money from you and im sorry.. i resonded back to you right after you sent me that last message.. I dont know what more to say.. as i said before i will opt out..

Expert:  JohnF2015 replied 4 months ago.

Hi, my name is***** was just reading over the issue that you have here and see that no one has been able to provide you with the answer that you were looking for. This is and odd one in that most of these engines do only have two balance gears but I have been able to find the information for you that will help you to get this engine back together and everything timed properly.

I am including a link to the service bulletin that you need in order to properly time everything in this engine as you put it back together.

I hope that you find this to be useful and you may want to save it to for future use.

http://www.gardentractorpullingtips.com/pdf_files/Kohler_Three_Gear_Balance_Gear_System_Service_Bulletin_208.pdf

Thank you it has been a pleasure to assist you. I hope that this gives you the information that you needed.

Have a great week!!!!! Please remember to rate your experience here and the help that I have provided.