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Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 12592
Experience:  have worked on and around most engine models for 35 yrs./Polaris ATV expert
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On a Kohler Courage 24 hp engine, no matter where I position

Customer Question

On a Kohler Courage 24 hp engine, no matter where I position the throttle, the engine seems to be on choke, and smokes like crazy. How do I fix it?
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Small Engine
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Hi my name is ***** ***** welcome to Just Answer . L when it's smoking is it a white smoke ? Also can you check the oil and tell me if it's thin or smells like gasoline

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I will check, just a moment
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Sure , no problem

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Oil seems a little thin, is also a little low, does not smell of gasoline
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Ok , is it smoking bad when running ?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Pretty bad, kind of a gray black smoke
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Does irt smell like oil etc ?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I would say yes
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I had to use hot start, just a little, to get it started the last time, when it was cold. Do you think the engine is blown? How in the world do you get these things started without hot start when it is cold? I use gasoline that is 87 with no alcohol.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

I'm wondering if you have a valve issue can you get the engine model number etc ?

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

My first concern was a carburetor issue , these engines carburetors will leak gas in the crankcase and mix with the oil , causing it st smoke and run terribly

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
give me a couple minutes
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

But you did say the oil doesn't smell like gas .

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Here is the model info: SPEC PS-6V725-3021
SER: (###) ###-####
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
sORRY, THE ps-6 SHOULD HAVE BEEN PS-5
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
IS THAT WHAT YOU WANTED?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
THAT IS CORRECT, IT DOES NOT SMELL LIKE GAS TO ME
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Should have something like a cv640 for the model

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
iT HAD BEEN RUNNING FINE IN THE FALL, SO IT REALLY SURPRISED ME THAT IT WAS SO HARD TO START AND THEN IMMEDIATELY STARTED SMOKING SO BAD AND RUNNING FAST EVEN WITH THE THROTTLE PULLED BACK TO LOW.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
THE LABEL ON THE SIDE SHOWS THE INFO I GAVE YOU, AND ON THE TOP OF THE CASE IT HAS sv725
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
iF IT HELPS ANY, the engine is on a Cub Cadet 1050
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Actually it is a Cub Cadet LTX 1050
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
with V twin
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
The oil does seem a bit thin, but the oil smell is so strong that if there is gas in there it is really overpowered by the oil smell.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Ok I am going to pull a breakdown of the engine

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
OK
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Oil doesn't have a strong smell , that's why I'm concerned about it being the carburetor. Was this the first time trying to use it this year ? Also was the gas tank empty ?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It was the first time this year, and the gas tank was low but not empty.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Should I change the oil and see if it still smokes?
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

You can , does the tractor have a fuel shutoff valve ?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It concerns me that the throttle position seemed to have no effect on the engine speed. So you think that would be caused by gas in the oil? It just runs like it is on choke all the time, but usually there isn't this much smoke. I will check to see if there is a shutoff valve.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
If there is a shutoff valve I can't find it. The fuel line comes from the bottom of the tank way back of the engine, and is not accessible at the tank unless you take the tank off the tractor. The fuel filter is readily accessible on the side of the engine, an inline filter, but no shutoff valve that I can see.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
What do you think, should I change the oil?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
You sound like the carburetor leaking into the oil is a common problem with these engines. If so, should I add some kind of inline shutoff valve? Is it usually a problem with the machine sitting a long time unused, or is it a problem when the engine is running?
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Let me check the carburetor to see if we can find a way to see if the choke plate is working

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

It is common , it happens because the rubber tipped needle doesn't seal with the brass inlet valve. Most times ppl have no clue as they are mowing until It locks up or smokes etc

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Wow, is that usually because a piece of something gets through the filter and keeps the needle from sealing?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I guess you are saying the carburetor floods and overflows into the oil?
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

No in most cases either the rupper tip on the needle swells or cracks or the brass inlet valve wears being brass so when the float closes the needle goes up into the inlet valve but gas continues to weep so ot overfill the bowl and runs down into the crankcase

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

So here is a diagram

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/kohler-sv7253027-engine-parts-c-106503_288368_289115.html

Part 19 is the air filter housing , it may have to be removed to verify the choke plate is moving

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Most of my experience has been with chevy carbs or farm tractors, so this is new to me.
So I guess I need to remove the housing and see if the choke plate is moving.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Don't know how long this will take, guess I will get back to you when I find out
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Yeah that's the first thing to check

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Should be a few bolts

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Here is a link to download the service manual

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/sm_32_690_01.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwinhfyC78PLAhVJkh4KHTTqDjYQFgg-MAE&usg=AFQjCNEfD2jRHlj1J28IGpE16SngPlxdIg

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
On page 52 of the manual, it shows the blower housing, item D, with just a few bolts holding it, and when I remove them, with the fuel pump still attached, I can lift the housing part way off the engine, but the gas tank blocks removing it unless I do something to move the gas tank toward the driver's seat or the engine away from the seat. Neither seems like a reasonable thing to do. Do you think I should have to completely remove the housing to be able to remove the air cleaner base? It appears there are two screws holding the base to the carburetor ---- I wonder if I can get the front of the housing high enough to have a chance of getting those screws out??? Any suggestions?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Posted by JustAnswer at customer's request) Hello. I would like to request the following Expert Service(s) from you: Live Phone Call. Let me know if you need more information, or send me the service offer(s) so we can proceed.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

The carburetor choke plate looks to face the front of the tractor right ?

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Just so your aware just answer charges more for phone calls , I wasn't sure if your aware or not

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I was not aware, so maybe that is not necessary ----- Yes it looks like it faces the front of the tractor, but I can't see it through the air cleaner base, so I guess I will have to remove the base. You agree?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It is a heck of a note hat they put a bulge in the gas tank right over the engine so that it blocks removal of the blower housing!!!
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Yes. , on most kohler they have a Fer 3/8 or 7/16 bolts holding the cover on

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

On your gas tank is it 2 bolts holding it or a bar like thing ?

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
It is a couple of bars.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
There are a couple of bolts holding one of the bar like rigs ---- I guess I can see if taking them out helps any
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
any suggestions before I go take more stuff apart?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I think I am going to have to wait til morning to try more disassembly. My wife died on 25 Oct so I am going to have to go get myself something to eat. We were married for 57 years so I guess I am still in shock.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Ok on a troy bilt I'm working on which is owned by mtd too it has 2 bars in front of the tank coming up to meet in the center and 1 bolt holding it on

Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

That's terrible , I'm really sorry to hear that about your wife . You can respond to me on here whenever , it will notify me so no rush on my end

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Thanks John. Back at you tomorrow.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Ok sounds good

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Well, I took the hood completely off and got it out of the way so I could get down on the floor and look under the blower cover from the front of the engine --- I could see the lever arm for the choke plate, and it does move with throttle movement. I presume I don't need to go any further in ascertaining whether the choke plate is moving.
I have another cub cadet, a LTX 46, with kohler engine sv601, and I could not start it back in the cold weather either, and the engine has less than 5 hours use cause I had to have it replaced when I blew the engine using a little motor ether to try to start it, so I have been reluctant to use motor ether to try to get it going. I tried to start it this morning, and it turns over fine but does not start. The oil seems very thin on it too, and it is time to drain the oil and put in new anyway. I don't understand what is going on --- I have used cub cadet for years, ever since switching over from MTD, and never had so much trouble. I have had to use hot start a lot over the years, but the last couple of years I have blown 3 engines trying to get them started. Seems like they have thinned the cylinder walls so much that it takes almost nothing to blow them out. With the crappy carbs they are using, how in the world is a person supposed to keep them going anyway? What do you feel shoud be the next step on trying to get either mower going?
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Let's change the oil and see if it will run ok , if it does we know gas is getting in that oil

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
I will give that a try in both engines
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

It could be the carbs but thin oil is usually gas getting into the crankcase

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
both of these mowers have had their motors replaced because they were blown out by using a little hotstart, and the "professionals" who replaced them neglected to transfer the provisions for draining the oil neatly, just left the drain plug in the side of the engine. I drained one of them but it made such a mess on the patio I went into town to get some 3/8 inch pipes and plug fittings for them so that the next time won't be such a mess. Will finish up changing the oil tomorrow and try to start them.
Expert:  Briggs-Fan replied 8 months ago.

Sorry , yeah it can be a disaster . My makes a thing to change the oil , it's like a half piece of pipe that slides under the drain , I'll try to find the link to one