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James W
James W, Small Engine Troubleshooting Expert
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 3700
Experience:  7 years as Mechanic & Parts Manager for Brother who has Owned Lawn & Garden Repair shop for 35 years
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Lawn Boy push mower, model 10201, 1994 model year. Hasnt

Customer Question

Lawn Boy push mower, model 10201, 1994 model year. Hasn't been run for over a year, was run without an air filter.

I replaced the spark plug, air filter, needle and seat on the float in carb bowl, and the spring that wraps around the butterfly shaft. Throttle cable doesn't seem to do anything.
Also replaced gasket from carb to engine. I can push the primer button a couple of times, it will run WIDE OPEN for about 2 seconds, then it dies, so I think that the coil is good. What's wrong with this carb?
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Small Engine
Expert:  James W replied 2 years ago.

James W :

Greetings, My name isXXXXX and I am here to help the best I can. My goal is 100% satisfaction. Let's get started.

James W :
James W :

Greetings, My name isXXXXX and I am here to help the best I can. My goal is 100% satisfaction. Let's get started.



James W :

to start, here is a complete parts breakdown for your unit including the engine




James W :

It is possible that the spring on the wind vane governor / throttle shaft is not mounted correctly



James W :

or it is not adjusted to the correct tension



James W :

This group of service manuals will HELP you to figure out what you did wrong




James W :

it is also very possible that you missed a tiny hole in the carburetor



James W :

that is still clogged



James W :

no, I can not tell you which one



James W :

but your are still describing a carburetor problem



James W :

my guess is that if you keep priming the engine it will keep running



James W :

but then you risk damaging the engine because the governor is not controlling the speed



James W :

also, check to make sure the butterfly on the throttle shaft is STILL fastened



James W :

Oten this little screw falls out and the butterfly just falls down



James W :

Let me know what you learn


James W :

It looks like you may have entered the question twice

James W :

but I assume you may have accidentall y entered you email address in the other account wrong so I copied the answer here

James W :

Accept here when you are done

James W :

but be careful not to accept both locations

Customer:

Make sure that I was only charged ONCE for this service.

James W :

or you will get doubled billed

Customer:

The butterfly is still fastened, you push it in thru the slot on the shaft. The throttle cable does not move

Customer:

the butterfly at all.

James W :

does the throttle cable actually move on both ends?

Customer:

It moves a slide on the top of the carb, but the butterfly doesn't rotate at all.

James W :

My suggestion at this time is for you to DOWNLOAD the service manual and Look at the way things are hooked up

James W :

then the tension on the spring is all wrong

James W :

or it is installed wrong

James W :

or both

Customer:

What hole in the carb may still be plugged, and how to I clean it out?

James W :

the service manual will give step by steps with photos

James W :

how did you clean it before?

James W :

did you SOAK it, or just spray it?

Customer:

I took off the fuel bowl, then soaked in a bowl of water with Dawn dishwashing soap, to remove any oil or greasy residue, then I rinsed it off very well.

James W :

OK, so you made it shiny, but did not really do anything

James W :

I will give Some general instructions I typed out for another customer

Customer:

Used a toothpick to scrape out as much of the gunk that I could see, but don't know if I missed anything inside.

James W :

then I will modify the instructions to make it

James W :

more suitible for the lawn boy carb

James W :

if you could see ANY gunk as in gum and varnish

James W :

then the WHOLE carb would need to be disassembled completely

James W :

then the METAL PARTS

James W :

would need to be soaked i a carb cleaner bath

James W :

do NOT soak plastic parts because the carb cleaner will eat them and turn them into gooo

James W :

As engines sit or get older, fuel that is left in the carburetor can turn to gum and varnish and cause this and other problems.


Also, any gasoline that was left in a gas can for a period of more than 30 days must be discarded because it also has begun to turn to varnish.


Today's gasolines contain MTBE and alcohol. (Ethanol) They turn to "Junk and garbage" very quickly. Alcohol absorbs water. And they call it "Oxygenated fuels! It is the oxygen (and the water) that breaks down the organic compounds in the fuel and turns the gas to "Garbage" (Gum and varnish) The fuels we had just a few years ago had no alcohol in it and would store for longer periods of time before going stale.


Fuel stabilizers do almost nothing to prevent the fuel from going bad with the changes in today's fuels. The whole point of a fuel stabilizer is to form an oily film on the surface of stored gasoline whether in the tank or in a gas can. The idea was to keep oxygen away from the gasoline to prevent breakdown. Since the fuel is already oxygenated, the fuel stabilizer concept is null and void. These fuels start to degrade immediately upon the addition of the ethanol.


Do not buy gas from the "Discount" Stations. The discount stations get a reduced price on gas because they may be buying fuel that is nearly 30 days old already. You may be getting fuel that's nearly stale right from the pump when buying from a discount station. Purchase your fuel from the well-known stations such as Shell, BP, Sonoco, Phillips 66 etc.


More than 70% of all of our repairs in our small engine repair business are due to these same issues. You most likely have dirt, gum, varnish...etc in your carburetor plugging up the small passageways and jets in the carburetor.


The carburetor will need to be cleaned and overhauled as well as the rest of the fuel system.


 



  • If you plan to do the work yourself, take pictures with your digital camera or at least make a drawing of where all the linkages, gaskets, and component parts go. Correct reassembly is critical.

  • Remove the carburetor from the engine.

  • Remove all of the non-metallic parts since the carburetor cleaner will cause them to be disfigured decompose and plug the carburetor as time goes on.

  • Clean all parts with carburetor cleaner. You will want to SOAK the non metallic parts in a cleaner bath.

  • Blow out all the small holes and passageways with compressed air.

  • Use a tiny stiff wire such as is found on the twist tie on a loaf of bread or on a garbage bag to open all tiny passageways found in the carburetor such as in the screw, nut, or jet holding the bowl of the carburetor on (if it has a bowl). Make sure to look for tiny holes in the bottom and side threads of the bowl nut or nozzle a make sure they are clear with the wire.

  • Wash the carburetor cleaner off of the metal parts by washing them in warm, soapy water then rinsing with clean water.

  • Dry all carburetor parts by blowing it off with compressed air.

  • Make sure that all the passageways are blown dry before reassembling (you do not want water back in the carburetor).

  • Reassemble the carburetor using a NEW carburetor rebuild kit.

  • NOTE: DO NOT TRY TO REASSEMBLE WITHOUT USING A COMPLETE CARBURETOR KIT! You will just end up having to do the job again.

  • Find the Model, type and serial or code numbers off of the engine and take them to your local dealer to get the carburetor repair kit.

  • ALWAYS clean the fuel tank and replace the fuel line when doing this repair or you may have to do it all over again. The inside of the fuel line disintegrates over time and these small pieces of rubber will plug up the carburetor too. Dirt and water from a dirty fuel tank will also plug up the carburetor. If this happens, you will be starting over again from the top.


In an Emergency such as a blizzard where you cannot get out to buy a carburetor kit until the plows come through, or during an emergency power outage and you need a generator running even if it runs poorly, you might try the following if your carburetor is the type that has a bowl. Sometimes this procedure works:


While the carburetor is still mounted to the engine:



  • Pinch the fuel line with a pair of vice grips to stop the fuel from going to the carburetor.

  • Remove the bowl nut (or nozzle from the bottom of the carburetor and let the fuel drain from the bowl.

  • Carefully remove the bowl from the carburetor without letting the needle and seat and float fall out of position (if it does, no big deal, but you will have to reassemble it, which is harder with the carburetor on the unit).

  • Dump all of the Gunk out of the bowl and put the bowl back into position.

  • Use a tiny stiff wire such as is found on the twist tie on a loaf of bread or on a garbage bag to open all tiny holes in the screw, bowl nut, or nozzle that was holding the bowl of the carburetor on (if it has a bowl). Make sure to look for tiny holes in the bottom and side threads of the bowl nut or nozzle a make sure they are clear with the wire.

  • Reassemble and see if you got lucky.


You may be able to finish the job at hand then clean and overhaul the carburetor correctly when you have more time and a new carburetor overhaul kit.


The nut that holds on the carburetor bowl has several small holes in it. Some are on the sides and one may be in the end. In order to completely clean the carburetor correctly, you Must clean these holes with a tag wire or a jet drill. (If a jet drill is used, DO NOT use a drill that is bigger than the hole or the engine will run too rich.)


 


If you don't feel comfortable with these kinds of repairs, or if the carburetor still doesn't work correctly after your attempt, I would suggest sending it to a profession repair shop with a reputation for having friendly, knowledgeable, experienced service technicians. It would be best to take it to someone who has an "Ultra-sonic" cleaning machine. This machine uses a very mild carburetor cleaner in concert with ultrasonic vibrations to get the very small passageways clean. This method is very effective even when traditional methods fail.


Here is where you can get an inexpensive "Ultrasonic Cleaning Machine"


http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=ultrasonic+cleaner


There is a New Product that you can try which is guaranteed to work or your money back (per the manufacturer).


http://www.b3cfuelsolutions.com/html/mib.html


It is designed to help clean the carburetor without damaging the diaphragms and rubber parts like regular carburetor cleaner. Click on this site and it will tell you all about it. http://www.b3cfuelsolutions.com/html/mib.html


The mechanic in a bottle is NOT a conventional carburetor cleaner.


It actually breaks down the varnish into it molecular components and it completely dissolves. It DOE NOT clog up the jets as conventional carburetor cleaners do. Conventional carb cleaners just loosen the varnish and the varnish particles will go into the jets and filters and clog them up.... usually causing much more problems that was originally there. The conventional carb cleaners also will loosen the "GUMK" that has formed in the gas tanks and cause all of that gunk to go through the carburetor as well.


 


The Mechanic in a BOTTLE is a completely revolutionary product that will in many cases alleviate the need to tear the carburetor down and rebuilt it..... unless there is mechanical wear and tear that would require that parts be replaced.


 


In addition, the special formula actually is designed to soften and restore the rubber parts in the carburetor such as the needle and seats and gaskets.


 


Mechanic in a bottle is NOT a cure-all but it can help customer get going in many cases without them having to tear the carburetor apart. If the customer is NOT mechanically inclined, it might save them a trip to the repair shop.


 


Yes I was very skeptical about this product when I first was introduced to it, but the Distributor demonstrated it and we have tried it on many occasions with terrific results.


Otherwise you will have to clean and rebuild the carburetor.


Please feel free to ask follow-up questions so that we can always arrive at the correct solution. We want you to be 100% satisfied.


 

Customer:

Well, I replaced the main needle and seat that hang off the float, I disassembled the carb as far as I could tell, the main body is a one piece plastic body

James W :

YES, that I forgot

James W :

that will be a bit more difficlut

James W :

I was just looking at the carb for this engine

James W :

I went to the service school for this engine when I was 12 years old

James W :

mayber 14??

James W :

I am 50 now, so do not work on them that much any more

James W :

You do NOT have a D series engine

James W :

and if the muffler is under the deck

Customer:

Is the throttle cable supposed to rotate the butterfly, like I think it should?

James W :

then you have an F series engine

James W :

Let me remember

James W :

throttle cable may just add more tension to the spring

James W :

but let me chack

Customer:

There is a "vane" on the top of the butterfly shaft. The spring holds the butterfly wide open. Is there too much tension in the spring? Maybe I have to "unwind" it one rotation?

James W :

look at this link

Customer:

Looking....

James W :

I have verified the throttle cable will change the spring tension

Customer:

Nope, that is the 1993 model, I believe that I have the 1994 model year.

James W :

OK, close

James W :

will not be a ton of difference

James W :

but look here

James W :

this is an example of one of the documents that you will load from the service manual links

James W :

I did not look to see if I had the exact right car

James W :

I just wanted you to see what the doc was like

James W :

so you would go here

Customer:

This looks pretty similar.... Let me look for a minute.

James W :

so you would know what you are missing

James W :

Actually

James W :

look at the service manual, then I would be glad to

James W :

answer follow ups and replies

James W :

(multi tasking)

James W :

there are sections on the carb

James W :

sections on the governor

James W :

and ajustments

James W :

you need to open a few docs to find the one that comes closest to the carb and gov that was ON your engine

James W :

lawnboy was not so good at making sure the parts diagrams told us which carb you have

James W :

plus, often the carbs got replaced

James W :

and do not wish to assume you have the original carb

Customer:

I believe that it is the original carb.

James W :

i understand

James W :

but, I think we have you started, then you can review the cleaning procedures

James W :

and the governor adjustment procedures

James W :

then I will be glad to answer follow ups

James W :

I will be notified via email of your replies

Customer:

It looks like I'm missing the speed control lever.

Customer:

Which would explain why the throttle control doesn't change the position of the butterfly.

James W :

THAT would do it

James W :

and would be impossible for me to see via remote control

James W :

hence the photos and diagrams

James W :

And worse yet

James W :

there will be little to hold the throttle to the right setting

James W :

I was not trying to abandon you

James W :

I just Knew you had enough to solve the puzzle

James W :

just needed some study time

Expert:  James W replied 2 years ago.
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Expert:  James W replied 2 years ago.
James W, Small Engine Troubleshooting Expert
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 3700
Experience: 7 years as Mechanic & Parts Manager for Brother who has Owned Lawn & Garden Repair shop for 35 years
James W and 5 other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Expert:  James W replied 2 years ago.
I am extremely confused by your feedback.

I provided you all the information to help you solve the problem.
Then I provided manuals to help you fix it.
then I even came back and provided the parts lists to help you replaced the missing part which was very inexpensive.

Then you paid me by accepting the answer.

then you left this negative feedback..


Feedback Rating: Negative
Comments: SUCKS to beat the band.
Question: Lawn Boy push mower, model 10201, 1994 model year. Hasn't

Please explain the reasoning for such a bad review... I do not understand how I could have helped more.

What could I have done differently???? to make you happy?

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