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Ranwell1
Ranwell1, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 10110
Experience:  I Own a Lawn Mower Sales and service business (37years). Have 2-cycle and 4-cycle certification.
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tecumseh hsk70. rebuilt the carb and ran fine. after one

Customer Question

tecumseh hsk70. rebuilt the carb and ran fine. after one snow the engine was running well, so i decided to put it in third and really put it through paces. the engine kept up for about 5 mins. the engine began to sputter and oil started to blow out breather. I knew there was about 1/8" too much on stick when I bought it, but I thought it wouldn't matter.
Drained excess oil and put in 5W 30 (called for in service manual).
Now it starts and runs rough and at full bore. can't control idle with lever. Only thing lever could do was shut off engine. replaced main jet still same problem. Float sticking? If so why? Gas was crystal when I replaced main jet.

HELP!
Submitted: 4 years ago.
Category: Small Engine
Expert:  James W replied 4 years ago.

Download this manual and turn to the linkages section of it

 

http://www.cpdonline.com/692509.pdf

 

Actually look at both the carburetor section and the linkage section..

 

Here is my fear. There is a possibility that when you hooked up the linkage after cleaning the carburetor, that you hooked it up wrong.

 

This might have made the engine overspeed when you were plowing through the snow..

 

Look and see if there is any way that have it hooked wrong or if a spring came off or something like that causing it to run at full bore now.

 

Look also to make sure that the governor arm is tightly fastened to the governor shaft and is adjusted properly. If you did not ever loosen the bold holding the shaft to the arm, and it is not loose now, then it probably is NOT out of adjustment, so do not touch it...

 

 

If this is not the case, then you may have a much worse problem.

 

It very well may be a bad governor gear which means a complete teardown.

 

This manual tells of this also.

 

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I will look at the linkage and spring after work today and will get back to you. The motor was runing fine for an hour before the oil started coming out of the breather pipe, so I don't think it is in the wrong hole. I took the carb and arm off to rplace the O-Ring, and jets. It ran fine for a while before this happened. If you could guess how this overflow of oil would cause the governor gear to strip please let me know.
I will get back this evening.
Expert:  James W replied 4 years ago.

Sometimes these gears just break in half. Also, if the carburetor was not working properly and was allowing too much fuel to flow, the excess fuel could have worked its way int the crankcase thus raising the oil level.

 

Check to see if the oils has kind of a gasoline smell to it. If so, the oil must be changed and the stuck float or needle seat problem must be solved.

 

The only problem is, if there was gas in the oil, the lubricating qualities of the oil would have been compromised. So then the governor gear could have been damaged.

 

Also if you tilted the unit the wrong direction when "dumping out some oil" then that could have put oil in the valve access giving it no choice but to come out the breather.

 

Is the oil level too high again now (because of gas in oil). Gas leaking past could have been why the oil was too high to begin with. It could have been running with oil in the gas even before you got it (or even running low before it was over filled causing stress).

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.

There seemed to be something funny about the oil. I must have had gas in it. Before I change anything around I need to know which carb and governor arm in the manual you gave me the link to is mine. My governor arm looks identical to the arm in diagram 23 on page 32 of the manual, but that setup seems to have the carb bowl facing out? I have a snow king sticker on the gas tank and a carb with the bowl facing down as I thought all do. The good/bad news is that the hole the linkage is in on my gov. arm is the top closest to the carb and the hole that the linkage is in in diagram 23 on page 32 is the top hole farthest from the carb.

Do you think it is in the wrong hole on the governor arm? If so, would it cause the gas to get into the oil and raise the level up to the point of blowing oil from the breather? Also, if I ran it twice for about 30 seconds with the new oil in their and the engine screaming, will I have to change the oil again if the motor idles correctly after removing the carb and putting the linkage into the outer top hole?

I don’t want to change the linkage until you confirm that the diagram is of my carb setup.

Finally, where is the tension spring located? I can seem to locate it. If you could point it out on diagram 23 on page 32 of the manual so I can see if it is still there if that is actually my setup. I don’t see HSK70 under any of the diagrams.

It looks like were getting closeJ

Expert:  James W replied 4 years ago.

I am at my regular job until 10PM, so I will not be able to study the diagram until after then, just a quick reply to let you know I am going to help and you are not being ignored.

 

It does sound like we are on the right track, though.

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Thanks for the update James.
I might not be able to get back to you until Saturday, so no rush.
Doug
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

James is my brother and he asked me to try to give you a little more insite into this issue. I am actually the owner of a large mower shop for over 35 years.

 

First it is very difficult to deturmin which picture is the exact one that you need for your linkage without me actually seeing your engine. They made so many different ones. If you could take a digital picture...or 3 or 4... and send them to us, I might be able to tell you a more exact answer.

 

If I was guessing, I would guess that you have the linkage in the wrong hole....but that is just a good guess.

 

The linkage has no effect on gas getting into the oil...there is only one reason gas gets into the oil...(Unless someone poured it in there).....and that reason is a faulty carburetor.

 

There are two reasons that can cause a carburetor to leak gasoline.

 

1. a float problem :...a float that is set wrong or a float that has a small hole in it letting gas into it....causing it not to float.

 

2. A needle and seat that is not seating. (Float needle and seat.) The float needle and seat will leak if they are worn or if there is some dirt or gum holding it open.

 

In any case, the carburetor MUST be completely cleaned and overhauled with a COMPLETE carburetor repair ki. The manual that James sent you will tell you how to set the float and rebuild the carb...as well as information in his his carburetor answer.

 

The Governor gear could be broken or even just a piece of it may have been broken or even just stuck, but the gas in the oil would not cause this. Sometimes they just break for no reason. Sometimes they break because of overspeeding...like if the linkage is put on wrong. Also if the linkage is on wrong, it can also put excess pressure on the gear and cause it to break. The govenor gear and spool are plastic and therefore subject to breakage..or...(even melting if they get too hot). (Most likely not the case with a snowthrower, but still a cause for failure.)

 

If the governor arm has ever been taken off of the governor shaft , then there is NO CHANCE that the governor is set correctly. It might be a good idea to take it to a shop

and have them try to look at it and give you another opinion where they can actually see it.

 

In any case, I think I have given you several things to think about. Remember, to send the photos so we can look at them if you want to have us give another suggestion.

 

Good luck.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hello,
The carb had been overhauled with all the aformentioned items. The only question is if the linkage is in the wrong hole and if the spring came off during blowing, which is what I suspect. I need to know if the linkage on a simplicity 130286S with a Tecumseh HSK70 should be set like the one that is in the manual you sent me on Page 32 diagram 23 and where the spring is on that setup.
pics are attached
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

 

 

Most likely it should be like What is in the picture. but...without me actually seeing you set-up I cannot be 100% sure. Please send me some pictures of your set-up and I can tell you. There are so many different set-ups that it is had to say this or that one is the right picture without seeing it.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
graphicgraphicgraphicgraphicgraphicgraphic
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hello James and Brother,
I am just sending this message to say that I will be out Valantines Day and won't be able to get your reply to my pictures until Monday, so no rush.
Thanks.
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

I have looked at your pictures. You have a very different set-up from what I am used to seeing. I can't remember ever seeing one like this. I am going to have to do some research to figure this out. If I were guessing, I would guess that the linkage that goes into the carburetor shaft needs to be moved to the BACK hole....but I am not really sure. Try to be patient with me and I will check at work and see what I can find out.

 

I will try to let you know something LATE Monday night or sometime Tuesday.

 

 

Expert:  James W replied 4 years ago.

From what I have determined looking closely at the photos, I believe you have the link hooked into the wrong hole.

 

See the side by side I have put together.

 

Compare the red arrows.

 

After i completed it, I read my brother's answer and see that he already agrees.

 

Here is the pic

 

graphic

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
THat is what I thought, but as you can see, the bowl on my carb is vertical and the one in the diagram looks to be horizontal, so that is why I was not sure.
What do you think?
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
In addition, if you look at the arm on the top of the carb where the likage hooks on, it is different. In the diagram the linkage is hooked into the left-most hole and mine is not (on the carb, not the governor -arm). It seems to me that the diagram is a different setup than what I have. Is there any way to finda diagram of my carb adjusted correctly?
Thanks.
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

Actually, this is a picture of your carburetor. It is an optical allusion. Both of these carburetors are on horizontal engines. the picture from the manual, just has a round air cleaner on the back of it where yours does not use an air filter. The bown is under the carb on the picture from the manual.

 

This is the correct picture for your carburetor.

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Just finished SHOVELING the driveway:) I will try changing the linkage to the way it is in diagram 23. If it works you have been of great assistance and will definitely be paid for your help.
Clear Skies!
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.
Thanks
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
James and brother,
I placed the linkage in the hole you indicated in your picture and still have the same problem. I think I am going to bring it in at this point befoer the engine blows unless you are able to help me fix it.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Relist: Answer did not fix my problem.
Answer did not fix my problem
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

If that didn't fix the problem, then you most likely have a governor gear inside the engine that has let go and will have to be replaced. AT the very least it is going to have to have the governor adjusted.

 

Here is the manual again. http://www.cpdonline.com/692509.pdf

 

You can either look up the procedure to adjust the governor...or...you may have to take this unit in to a good mower repair shop for them to adjust it. I wish you were here at my shop, I could tell you what is wrong and what to do to fix it in a couple of minutes. This is just one of those things that is difficult to explain without actually having the unit in front of me.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
James's brother,
I will adjust the governor according to the specs in the manual this weekend. If it works you will get paid, but if it doesn't I can't deem you as being a help. This should be quite understandable. If my priblem isn't diagnosed correctly then this has been a waste of both of our time.
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
James's brother,
If you give me your first name I will be able to address you that way:) Here is a pic of the governor arm. The manual doesn't show this type of arm. If you could give me a step-by-step on adjusting this type of governor arm hopefully we can get htis problem fixed, you can get paid, and we can both be happy.
THanks.graphic
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

 

Just ,call me Ranwell

 

There is a picture that is somewhat like yours on page 35 of the manual. Picture # XXXXX

It is not exactly like yours, but is adjusted the sam way.

 

 

Here is how to adjust the governor arm.

 

 

Looking at the picture you sent.....

 

loosen the bolt that holds the governor arm to the governor bracket on the engine. Then turn the governor bracket all the way toward the engine. (CCW) then turn the governor arm the same direction (Push it until the carburetor throttle shaft is all the way open)

While holding both of these items fully , then tighten the bolt holding them together. This should now have the governor set correctly.

 

If this doesn't work, then you may have a broken governor gear inside the engine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Customer: replied 4 years ago.
I will give it a shot tomorrow. If it works you are the man, have been helpful, and will be paid.
THnaks Ranwell
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
One more thing. Is the bolt you are referring to the one on the right with all that white crap on it?
THanks.
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.

Yes,...the white crap is corrosion and must be taken off. I would first suggest that you soak it in penetrating oil for a while. You will probably have to get a new bolt. Also your problem may be that bolt may bee loose already allowing the arm to move without moving the governor shaft.

 

 

 

Ranwell1, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 10110
Experience: I Own a Lawn Mower Sales and service business (37years). Have 2-cycle and 4-cycle certification.
Ranwell1 and other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 4 years ago.
Hello,
When I push the governor arm toward the engine it is closing the carb's butterfly. The throttle is being pushed toward the closed position when pushing the governor arm toward the engine block. Is this correct?
Expert:  Ranwell1 replied 4 years ago.
Yes this is correct

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Ranwell1
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I Own a Lawn Mower Sales and service business (37years). Have 2-cycle and 4-cycle certification.