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Carey (Turtle) Moore
Carey (Turtle) Moore, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 176
Experience:  Briggs & Stratton Master Tech, over 20 years exp all brands
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Honda verses Yamaha for a 6500 watt super quiet inverter

Customer Question

Honda verses Yamaha for a 6500 watt "super quiet" inverter generator (variable engine speed)
Submitted: 5 years ago.
Category: Small Engine
Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
Honda hands down. Parts are easy, service is easy and honda has cleaner power with the AVR. Hook a computer to each and then decide.

I think Hank would agree.

Thanks
Turtle
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Turtle,

 

Not sure what AVR is, please expand with a few more words. Also, still hands down with an $800 price difference at the 6500 watt level?

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Also, it looks like Yamaha has a "boost" feature (at least on the 3000 wat model) which allows drawing from the starting battery to handle inrush current for up to 10 seconds. If Honda doesn't have this, I'll bet a paycheck they will on the next model year.

 

I have a Honda Eu3000isa that will trip when starting a 12000 BTUH air conditioner in the RV unless I start the fan first (vent mode) and then set the T-stat to allow the compressor to start.

 

Just thought the boost mode from the battery was a good idea.

 

Also, please confirm that Yamaha is not "labeling" Honda EU's.

 

Thanks.

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
AVR= Auto voltage regulator. A good example is 125 volt of electricity continues with little or no variation. Most generators run 3600 rpm to = 60 hertz of 120 volt with a variation of 110 to 130 depending on RPM. The pulse width of the electrical wave is consistent in a honda generator. The benefit is clean power meaning no variation in voltage to spike or damage todays fragile electronics. Computer,television, etc. The life of your electronics you are using will last longer with this AVR at $800.00 difference may be something to think about. Not just the AVR the components that make up the whole gen set is more of a benefit. I have seen honda generators with 6000 hrs on them. Most generators are rated to run 1500 hours life. Here is the real picture $800 for 3500hrs more service an reliable power VERSES $800.00 savings to get 1500 hrs with less benefits like fuel usage, louder, service and parts availability and finally buyers remorse years down the road.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.
I'll get back later. I watching the president's health care speech to the joint session of congress.
Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
I understand cause my wife is in the health care field. She is glued to the tv.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I understand a 2 pole generator needs to run at 3600 rpm for 60 htz output. But the Yamaha also has throttle control for light load, variable engine speed....ie pulse width modulation (PWM) output on the inverter from a dc (current source inverter).

 

Don't buy the clean power arguement of Honda over Yamaha. They both have inverter pwm technology right?

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
Yes but they are not the same. Its like say Ford Chevy arguement. Nobody really wins the discusion. I will say in my honest opinion Honda is the way to go. Im not going to say Yamaha is not a good product. As long as you get the CORRECT tool for your needs that is what is important and Honda you can go wrong.   Have i won yet?
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

You've presented the sales "puffery" ....but in all honesty, no convincing technical persuassion. I own a Honda Eu3000isa, but I'm considering upgradeing to a 5000 watt plus/240 volt generator to avoid nuisance trips when starting an RV air conditioner and also provide 240 volt for the home deep well pump. The Honda is SUPER quiet (49-55 db), but has no 240 volt output for home stand-by.

 

Clean power and PWM from an inverter to make the "perfect" sine wave is OLD news to me. That sales hype has been around since the '80's on VFD drives. AVR....show me any generator on the market that doesn't regulate field current with load. Your're talking to me if you mention time constants for recovery and overshoot for 100% step load changes (comparisons). THD after a transient is boring.

 

Tell me something specific between the Honda and Yamaha "smart throttle" technology and why Honda is worth $800 more without "boost technolgy" from the dc batteries for motor starting.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I repect your Ford/Chevy arguement and have used it myself many times.

 

GM went bankrupt, and Ford still has those "stupid" idiot gauge scales.....haha.

 

$800 more for the F-150?

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
ok, I hope i did not upset you. I m only here to help. Let me get the documentation in literature based on facts for what you want to use it for. Then i will close this debate. By the way I admire your knowledge. See ya tomorrow evening.

I read you last post and yes thats funny.

Turtle
Carey (Turtle) Moore, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 176
Experience: Briggs & Stratton Master Tech, over 20 years exp all brands
Carey (Turtle) Moore and 3 other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

I was just fishing for some serious Honda/Yamaha inverter output generator technolgy differences.

 

I've accepted your input....

 

I have an MSEE.

 

Hope you still resolve this in you mind and reply.

Customer: replied 5 years ago.

No, you did not upset me.

 

The written word can be ambiguous.....as anyone who's read blogs knows :) :)

 

You have been nothing but professional/cortious.

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
I read the material at work. I did not realize Yamaha had come so far. Ef6300 for the price they are asking is cheap. I admit it is tempting. If they are giving $900.00 off retail something is up. I bet you can find the Honda Eu6500 at the same price. I can't find any reviews on the ef6300 not supported by Yamaha.

Thanks
Turtle
Carey (Turtle) Moore, Small Engine Technician
Category: Small Engine
Satisfied Customers: 176
Experience: Briggs & Stratton Master Tech, over 20 years exp all brands
Carey (Turtle) Moore and 3 other Small Engine Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Yes, I was surprised also to see Yamaha coming into the market, and the "boost" technolgy I thought was inovative.

 

You have a good point regarding "discounted" Honda's. I need to search more.

 

Thank you, XXXXX XXXXX stand by my bet that Honda will be coming out with a similar "boost" feature with all their "super quiet" model for RV's. Starting an AC unit is the defining capability.

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
Since you have become my favorite customer i will call in a favor and price any Honda you want. The EM or the EU model. YOu decide and i will get the price and then shop to beat mine. If you decide on honda i will give the contact information once you tell me what you want. I STILL MIGHT WIN THIS AFTER ALL. HA

Turtle

Ps thanks for the tip. I would have done it for free.
Customer: replied 5 years ago.

Actually, I have been a Honda small engine fan decades. Since the Honda Mini-Trail Z-50. I was just playing the Devil's advocat after seeing the Yamaha Generators with the innovative "boost" technolgy off the starting battery. I guess I'm P.O.'d that I didn't think of it and hold the patent.

 

OK, for Sept 2009, you've won the debate.

 

But, is Yamaha going to take market share with this boost technology? I think they will if it is worth a darn and they have a tightly worded list of claims in the patent.

 

I sent a bonus for your efforts. Confirm to me you received it and we can close this dialog. Thanks so much for the input/thoughts!

Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
I got it and I thank you for it. If Yamaha will support the dealers and give them good profit margin on parts like onan does. It will fly. As of now they are just marketing price to uneducated buyers. You are a very smart individual hope to speak to you again.

Turtle
Expert:  Carey (Turtle) Moore replied 5 years ago.
Em6000 retail $3199.00 your price $2500
EU6500 retail $3999.00 your price $3000.00

now the EU is back ordered until next month. Let me know what you want.


Turtle

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